Josh H

Do you have any facts to back that up? I didn't think so.

To be fair, neither do I, which is why I'm not bothering with the argument anymore. It's pointless to argue with no facts to back up either side.

Gallant Pig

Ask anyone who owned a DC who pirated games how many they *really* owned. They will say something like "I only buy games if it's worth it", in that case they are taking away from the rental market which also buys games. I remember when DC piracy was huge here, and people shamelessly discussed it here (exp: *cough* a certain someone from Australia..*cough* *cough*). They never bought any games for it, and the DC suffered. Maybe not enough to make it go under, but it sure didn't help.

Josh H

Good point Gallant. That's the other part of Darknights argument that's worthless. It doesn't matter if the pirated game is one the pirater wouldn't have bought. It's still illegal. You either buy, rent or borrow a game, or you don't play it. There's no legitimate reason to ever make a copy of any game. And no, backing up games you own isn't a good enough excuse. Just take care of them and keep them away from little brats and there's no need for a back up.

And by cracking down on mod chips you aren't screwing over the majority because of a few "bad seeds." The bad seeds are the majority of mod chip users.

But that's the way things go. People will make up whatever excuses necessary to defend something they like.

dek

Or something they dislike

ipkevin

Well the point is that the situation IS different this time, whether you want to believe it or not. This is the first time where a mod chip is MUCH more than simply a route to piracy. To the point where those other features might be more attractive than even piracy for some people.

Incidentally, the ease of piracy on the DC was unprecedented in the console world. No mod chips or hardware needed at all. And the games were easy to trade online and distribute to friends. Nothing like it outside of PC games. The X-Box & PS2, with their need for chips and giant storage mediums are intrinsically much more difficult to pirate. Even more than the PS1 was in its time, and I seem to recall that system doing quite well despite piracy.

To summarize:
1) For the first time, there are very good reasons to own a mod chip besides piracy.
2) Piracy relatively difficult even for the average tech-savvy person. ie, it's not going to be a make or break issue like it may have been for the DC.

Whatever the case, it's pointless. You know someone else will release a mod chip eventually. Hell, this might anger hobbyists into releasing one just as a big FU to M$.

Aghama

This has nothing to do with Darknight's argument.

darkside

Great. Just imagine how much better they would have done without piracy. Non of you pro mod chip arguements will change the fact that its illegal to modify the console and anything that helps piracy should be stopped, no matter what the benefits are.

Buy your mod chips if you want, but don't get mad at Microsoft for cracking down on them. They have a right and an obligation to stop piracy and modifying systems.

My biggest problem with this particular issue is people getting mad at Microsoft. There are doing nothing wrong by trying to stop people from putting mod chips in the Xbox.

ipkevin

1) It's illegal to modify a console? Source, please. And even if the ACT of modifying the console is illegal, that wouldn't make the chip itself illegal, now would it?

2) CD-burner technology has helped piracy more than any mod chip. A LOT of people use burners almost exclusively for piracy of one form or another. However, a lot of people use them for legitimate reasons, too. By your reasoning, Microsoft should nonetheless be allowed to swoop in and shut down all of the CD-burner manufacturers, right? Hell, why not prevent research into the technology altogether? Never mind that there are those who have legitimate uses for it and that the product itself is legal - Microsoft has a right to preserve its margins!

3) People DO have a right to get mad at Microsoft. Having the moral right to prevent piracy does NOT give them to moral right to employ any and all methods they see fit. That's what you have confused or oversimplified - (some) People are not angry at Microsoft for wanting to stop piracy. They're angry at what MS is doing to achieve that goal. Big difference. Here it's like MS can't figure out how to go after people who actually ARE engaged in illegal activities, so they say screw it and just put huge pressure on lawful 3rd parties that both pirates & legit users may use. That sucks and is worthy of scorn. MS can drain Lik Sang's resources via legal fees to the point where they have to go under, even if LS technically wins the court battle.

duy37

I'm guessing you never downloaded an MP3. or you don't own a CD-R that you use to "backup" your own CDs. The Internet just makes it easier for people to share. Sure you have Hong Kong people and pirators selling pirated games, but for the most part I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the average joe does not know much about modchips and how to go about downloading games. It's not like there's a Napster or Kazaa for this type of stuff.

Piracy is a problem, but then so are drugs. keep in mind that the video game industry is $10 BILLION DOLLARS. Alot of sales goes to parents who buy video games for their kids, these parents don't have time to be burning games when they have the money. 10 BILLION DOLLARS i don't know how much better they would do without piracy but i know that 10 billions is alot and even after adjusting for inflation this has to be a heck more then back in the days where they had Nintendo and Genesis.

Gallant Pig

Would you say it's wrong for MS to alter their hardware/software to make it incompatible to use the chip?

mytzplyx

Okay, here's what it comes down to:

1) There *are* more gamers doing it right than illegal gamers.

However:

2) Of those *with* mod chips, the majority *do* play illegal games.

But then:

3) Mod chips are *now* definitely used for more than just illegal game copying.

What it comes down to is, whether or not you're willing to punish the user by taking away the tool, where the tool can be used for good or evil. (I think good meaning region free dvd playing, real backups, etc...)

If you say yes, ask yourself this:

Do we take away all computers from consumers because some people download mp3s?

Do we do away with the right to bear arms because of those who choose to shoot someone with it?

Do we take away kitchen knives because, hey, they are dangerous and people have killed with sharp objects before?


If you say no, ask yourself this:

How else can game companies prevent piracy from happening? After all, its not easy governing human nature.

Gallant Pig

I'm sorry but these are really weak strawman arguments. A mod chip doesn't slice bread or hunt animals or do word processing and programming. A mod chip does what the console maker didn't intend for the console to do. The RIAA has strongly cracked down on MP3s by going after the PTP companies like Napster.

BTW: the original article was just a bunch of smoke and mirrors with only some sort of confirmation by an Australian? representative of MS... CNet knows very little of what happened and is happening, just that Liksang is down for some reason. .

I'd like to hear all the facts of the case before we become judge, jury, and executioner.

Aghama

And that should be illegal?

Josh H

I only have a handful of MP3s, and they are all either live songs that aren't available on CD.

And I don't own a CD burner.

Josh H

This one doesn't work because it's highly likely that the majority of computer owners do not use them to download and/or burn copyrighted songs.

The majority of people with Mod Chips do own illegal games.

Yep, I'm a strong supporter of stringent gun control.

Again, this one doesn't apply. Most people that use kitchen knives don't kill or attack people with them, when most people with mod chips use them to play pirated games.

Josh H

I would say yes because their main function is to play illegally pirated games, which is illegal. The fact that the other functions of mod chips just let the console do things the manufacturer didn't intend, simply weakens any legal justification for there existence.

mytzplyx

I liiiiiiiike guns.

Gallant Pig

Again, I'd like to hear all the facts and what MS is basing their case on.

khai

I was about to get their GBA afterburner modded housing too. Dammit. I hope someone else picks this product up..