I know, I know "Goldeneye re-invented the FPS when they added stealth-based missions". I still hate them. It seems to me that it's too difficult, unnatural and impracticle to remain "unseen" when you can't actually see where you are in relation to your surroundings. I'm having the hardest time with both SOF II and SOCOM because I just can't stay hidden long enough. I think a game like MGS or Tenchu is the best way to play a stealth-based game, where you can clearly see where your charachter is in relation to the enemies. I just hate getting killed because some part of my body (which I cant even see) is visable to some terrorist a hundred yards away.

Am I the only one who feels this way???

Stealth... my idea of stealth is gunning down everyone so as to not be annoyed by the enemies. I don't do the hidden thing, which is why I detested deus ex. Crossbow my arse, unless it fires exploding bolts, it stays in the back.

I loved Thief because of the stealth. I don't play SOCOM offline, but I can tell you online stealth is an advantage, but not always a necessity.

I LOVE STEALTH
currently, I'm playing Battlefield 1942, and nothing beat getting a great place to hide and picking off players one by one. Even if I only get one kill per game, I LOVE IT !!!!

MORE SCOPED WEAPONS !!!!!!

It depends, if the game ends because you've been spotted then it sucks. If you can alert the guards, deal with it (hide or kill them) and then things go back to normal it's not so bad.

Man, I fogot about Deux Ex as well. Those games just drive me nuts!
The fun, the joy of FPS games comes from blowing $hit up. I thought Half Life was the greatest game I ever played when it first came out and played it to the end. The reason it was great is because you can come out shooting or sneak around corners but getting seen will never cost you the game.
If I can't even get past the first level without lots of restarts, I just won't bother to play the damned game.
BTW: I only have tried SOCOM offline, but just got the NA from the UPS guy today (woo-hoo!). Now if I can only find someone willing to install a broadband connection in my house...

Try NOLF 2 demo - it has a cool stealth method that you might like. I'm a FPS freak, so I like most of them. If you're into blowing stuff up - I'd try Serious Sam.

I really like the stealth in NOLF (1 and the demo of 2). I like that you can sneak around and sometimes make the mission easier but if you screw up and are spotted the guards just go on alert and you might have to fight more.... i love that in NOLF you can stay quiet for a while and they kind of go back to normal. Then again i adored both Thief 1 and 2 so i dig on stealth if it is done right.

The stealth in NOLF 2 is greatly improved IMO - they added an eyeball icon that shows you when you're well hidden and it helps if you have trouble figuring out your surroundings with the FPS POV.

That does sound better. I might check it out. I tried NOLF on the PS2 and couldn't stand it, mainly because it was so ugly it almost made my eyes bleed. Hopefully, this one has gotten a major face-lift.

The original NOLF for the PC was very nice looking. The new lithtech engine powering NOLF2 for the PC is gorgeous. Facial animations are great and the water effects are spectacular. I spent 10 minutes staring at the water at the beginning of the demo - looking at the reflections and ripple effects. I had already seen a demo of this at E3 in the monolith office space and I was still amazed.

If you like 3rd person shooters, try Mafia.

Half-Life sucks most people in right away, but it might take awhile longer for others. I can't make you like it, but I really think you should give it a chance based on its own merits rather than comparing it to Halo. Return to Castle Wolfenstein is alot of fun and you're limited in the amount of weapons I think iirc. IMO, Halo was a little weak compared to other FPS, but the controls were so tight it was just fun somehow... the levels being all so redundant wasn't very impressive, but forgiveable. To each his own though and I'll keep thinking about it and try to figure out what you might like.

I agree. It's not fun to have to automatically restart the second you get spotted. It's not realistic. If a guard sees me, and the warning siren is fifty yards away, and I have a silenced pistol, there's no reason why I shouldn't be able to just whack the guy.

Jedi Knight II made me incredibly frustrated, b/c it had a freaking stealth mission thrown right in the middle, for no reason. I hate when games do that.

I like good stealth missions in FPSes. I hate when enemy AI hovers at around the level of "Omniscience." SOF2, I'm looking right at you.

SOCOM isn't a FPS. Sure, you can play it in first person mode if you like, but you can also switch to a third person view and "see where your character is in relation to the enemies," just like in MGS and Tenchu.

Well, maybe that wasn't the best example, although I think you have to be in the FPS mode to aim a weapon. I was really ranting about the trend that is making FPS inaccessable to me unless I turn the AI down to "Moron" level, and sometimes even that isn't enough.
SOF2 is a better example. In real life, a sentry hundreds of yards away on routine patrol would not instantly spot an invader's elbow in the grass while he was stationary and silent. C'mon that ain't fair. Look, I don't mind paying the price if I charge through the field like an elephant, but a lot of these games are just too unforgiving and therefore a lot less fun.

I love stealth FPS like Goldeneye. They're really the only kind I like. I don't like the mindless "shoot em ups" like Serious Sam or Doom I & II. They just bore me. Running around shooting everything in site gets old fast IMO.

Oh ok, I just wanted to clear up the little SOCOM thing. I haven't really played any "stealth" FPS games, but I do understand your point. Please excuse my ignorance, but what game is SOF2?

Soldier of Fortune 2

sorry man.... socom is the shiznit

This will make you hate the game's AI even more. On one of the snowy levels, I went to the prone and low-crawled right up to an enemy soldier while he was staring right at me. Apparently, the base put Helen Keller on guard duty.

SOF2 HAS BEEN PATCHED.

Repeat, SOF2 has been patched to fix the omniscient AI problem when it comes to hiding in the tall grass and what not. Now when you crawl through the tall grass, the AI will actually have a hard time spotting you.

I always thought it was "funny" that the tutorial spent so much time talking about using the tall grass as concealment and then made it so enemies could see right through it!

In any case, I found the sneaking-required sections of SOF2 to be pretty easy. In other sections, you could just blast through the whole thing.

Personally, I feel a game that realistically implements sneaking but doesn't REQUIRE you to use it is the best. That way, you can blast through a level guns blazing, but if you ever decide to take the quiet way through, it still feels realistic instead of just revealing the shitty AI (eg, omniscient enemies).

I definitely prefer first and third person shooters with some stealth element. I still really want to play Halo though.

The worst is trying to do stealth against human players. In America's Army it was soooo hard to sneak up on anybody. You really had to pay attention to cover and use smoke to your advantage.