Tamrok

Let me get this straight. You actually believe that the Xbox controller is somehow based upon the N64 controller? You obviously have either never seen an Xbox controller or never seen an N64 controller. If anything, the Xbox controller is similar to the Dreamcast controller with some elements taken from the Dual Shock (like the second analog stick). Nintendo's controller's had almost no influence on the Xbox controller's design. You may dislike the Xbox controller but that is only your opinion. Do not try to state it as fact.

Aghama

Nintendo pioneered the analog stick for console gaming. But I don't think it really matters which controllers borrowed from what, it's been an evolutionary process for years.

Tamrok

Exactly. Analog control has been around since Pong. It is ridiculous to try to claim that if not for Nintendo, we would all still be using a digital pad. Nintendo doesn't have some mystical hold over all console innovations. With the move to 3D, someone else would have developed the analog stick if Nintendo hadn't. The need was there and any decent engineer could have seen that.

Draven

Then why didn't the PS1 launch with one?

jeffdsmith

Or Saturn, or 3do, etc.


I agree that someone somewhere would eventually bring analog back to the market. However, Nintendo had the insight to do it from the get go, to raise the quality of the games. With out an analog control Mario would be far less enjoyable. Play any of the "Mario Clones" on PS1 to see the difference. (With a regular PSX controller)

ScandalUMD

I'm going to have to disagree slightly. Analog control has been around since Pong, but Nintendo conceived it as a replacement for digital control, and developed the first analog thumbstick controller.

Sony followed suit with the Dual Shock. The Dreamcast controller resembled the Nintendo controller, in terms of general shape, and the space in the controller for the memory device. The X-box controller essentially evolves from the Dreamcast controller, with the notable addition of the second analog stick, a Sony innovation.

The Gamecube controller borrows a lot from Sony this generation as well, in terms of the general shape of the controller and of the second stick. But the Gamecube has also brought us two worthwhile innovations in controllers. One is the Wavebird; the first wireless game controller ever to not suck. Logitech has since come out with wireless controllers for PS2 and Xbox, but they cost twice as much as the Wavebird, and feel like third party controllers.

The second is the L and R triggers, which really make analog buttons plausible for the first time as a significant control innovation. The digital "click"button beneath the analog trigger gives those buttons a lot of possibility.

I hope in the next generation, somebody figures out a good way to reconcile the utility of the analog triggers with the flexibility of having four shoulder buttons, like on the PS2 controller. For games that require dual analog control, it helps to be able to access most of your moves from the shoulder, rather than having to go to the face.

Aghama

And the Dual Shock layout is pretty damn similar to the SNES controller, just with a couple more shoulder buttons. But it's all about who implements it the best, which is totally subjective and has been argued to death.

Groucho

While Nintendo did show the world what an analog joystick can do in Super Mario 64, I agree that it's an innovation that would have come either way. It's ancient history now, and there's no point in calling the Xbox controller a "rip-off" of the N64. I guanantee it would have been analog regardless of Nintendo or the N64.

I am struggling to wonder how we got from Nintendo as a possible third-party software company to the Xbox controller. Then again, all threads in this forum go off kilter, so I'm not really surprised.

Tamrok

Maybe they didn't have decent engineers.

Seriously though, those are really first generation 3D systems or 2D/3D hybrids (the Saturn, to my mind, was really more of a 2D system) that were developed for the most part before much work had been done on the 3D software side. As more 3D software was developed, the need for analog control became more apparent. As N64 came to market much later, there was more time to implement an analog control scheme. Bottom line, I will never be convinced that if not for Nintendo, the analog contol stick would not have been realized by someone else. Nintendo does a lot of R&D and employs a great game designer in Miyamoto but other companies have talented people and invest in R&D, too.

Static Cling

So what do XBox controllers have to do with Nintendo's financial earnings?

Topic, please. And can we give it a rest with the outrageous statements, like comparing a controller to the Atari (or whatever that was) controller? It just gets people into arguments.

MrSneis

Nintendo has always been making loads of money, lots of people hated the n64 but you know what? They made a huge profit on that system!

Draven

Back on topic then...

Nintendo makes plenty of money as a hardware/software company. There is no reason they should give up on what has been nothing but a successful allocation of their resources for a long time.

Trigger

Sorry - someone brought up how the Xbox controller sucked and so I said I liked the Xbox controller and that it was the best thing since the Atari controller - and then everyone called me a fricken idiot. I wasn't comparing anything with anything. That's how I feel. I've never spent alot of time with consoles mainly because I have never liked the controllers - the Xbox controller took a bit of time for me to warm up to, but I really love it now and wouldn't use anything else. Whatever - I'm not even the one who brought it up.

Why don't you say something to Jeffdsmith who said "You obviously have no concept of gaming. None." to me. That's pretty damn rude.

Aghama

Simmer down now, I think Static just skimmed through and didn't even notice what you were comparing the Atari joystick to. You were in the right, for once.

JOKE

Groucho

Must every thread turn into a joystick measuring contest?

Trigger

I'm sure he did just skim through - I wouldn't want to read all this crap either if I had to moderate. You don't have to tell me to simmer down though - I'm not the spaz around here. I don't think I've ever even gotten flustered over something said on the internet.

Get Me Coffee

Mine is better than yours! ha-ha

jeffdsmith

Sorry Trigger I miss read your post in my hurry. I apologize.

Back on Topic.
Everyone thinks that nintendo has it made in the wireless world, but I seriously see Nintendo running into trouble because of cell phones and PDA's. Nintendo likes to keep the GB(A) hardware simple. Cell phones and PDA's are constantly getting better. I think it's only a matter of time until someone, (most likely MS) wil use the medium to try and seriously take Nintendo's control away.

Static Cling

Ah, crap. My bad. You're right, I did skim through, and you're right, I am tired of reading through threads that go wildly off topic and turn into every different variation of "my console can beat up your console."

Also, if you have a problem with someone, report them to a mod, because then we get an e-mail pointing us to the problem. Otherwise, we're not likely to catch it while skimming through a thread.

mr.snowmizer

Actually, it was the Atari 5200 in 1982 that was the pioneer.

ScandalUMD

If you're talking about pong paddles, that's the first analog, but it's a completely different implementation.

If you're talking about the joystick, I'm pretty sure it was digital.

Nintendo invented the analog stick, as well as the idea that such a joystick should be designed to be manipulated by a thumb instead of a whole hand, as was the case with previous joysticks.

belboz

Actually, if we must be anal about all this, analog sticks were being used for pc gaming since the Apple II days. There was actually a radio wireless controller for the Atari 2600, though the thing was fricken huge. And I'm pretty sure there are cave paintings in France that depict a plummer jumping over a turtle, so basically, Nintendo hasn't invented squat. :P

Trigger

That's cool - Things said here rarely get under my skin enough for me to tattle. Jeff apologized, so it's all good now... (it would be nicer if he "took it back" but an apology is fine). Anyway - aside from being a smartass at times and apparently unintentionally getting under other peoples' skins, I think I handle most of my squabs on my own diplomatically just fine. I know moderating can be a daunting task and even though it may seem like I'm not, I do try to make things easier on you.

Back to topic - Nintendo... consoles... software... discuss.

Jeremy517

Back on topic...

I don't necessarily think that they should financially, but I just want them to for my own selfishness. Seeing great games on less than great hardware can be frustrating. Yeah the gameplay is most important to me, but that doesn't mean there aren't aspects that can be improved on. Lack of digital sound from the Gamecube is just the latest example.

jeffdsmith

I take it back.

In my haste I thought you had typed something different then what you had.