ScandalUMD

If Microsoft buys Rare for half a billion dollars, then the conclusions I've extrapolated about XBox are wrong. If they're willing to spend that much more money, at this point, then they clearly have so much money that they genuinely don't care if they lose a few billion in cash assets, and that they want domination of the videogame market enough to buy it outright.

So far, Microsoft is dumping an estimated $150 per XBox, allotted a $500 million marketing budget, and is building a $2 billion Xbox live network. They don't seem to have any plan, as I've said, for making that money back in the forseeable future, but this news forces me to entertain the possibility that they're so rich they really don't care.

The fact is, dominance in the videogame industry really is something that can be bought, and, in spite of the Sony's success, they really don't make enough money on PS2 to justify trying to match a Microsoft buying frenzy. As for Nintendo, they have $5 billion in cash reserves that they can reinvest completely in gaming, because gaming is their only business. They're big enough not to get pushed around.

If MS somehow manages to extricate Rare from Nintendo's grasp, it will likely only be the first round of a protracted and nasty fight between the two companies, and I wouldn't write Nintendo off. They could feasibly pay for Capcom or Sega in cash. Of course, if MS wanted to badly enough, they could buy EA. Heck, they actually tried to buy Nintendo, according to some rumors.

However, there have been rumors like this in the past, and they've been wrong. Last Christmas, the rumor was that Microsoft was going to buy up Take 2 entertainment in its entirety because GTA3 was so successful. So we can't assume anything until it's for sure.

But, if this happens, it's likely to trigger a buying frenzy on all three sides, and a lot of multiconsole developers will end up exclusive, and a lot of games will be cancelled on various platforms.

So much for competition being good for gamers.

huh?

i agree with everything you said. i think that if a buying party starts, we all lose. it will just mean that gamers will have to spend more money to play the games they want, because they will be on three different systems. i hope this doesn't happen, but if MS buys RARE for over a billion dollars (a studio that has produced zero games in the past year), that would be the equivilant of the Texas Rangers' contract with A-Rod. ( the fans lost on that one too)....

s}{ammer

getting a little crazy over your love for the xbox eh? I don't recall anyone in here saying the xbox was crap or that Sony and Nintendo are underdogs. I am pretty sure everyone KNOWS there will be a ps3 and ps4, hell they had adds for the PS9 last year and Sony wouldn't do false advetising now would they? Nintendo has been in this industry forever and they have their niche and will be around for a long time to come. M$ is by far the underdog, but they will not stop with 1 or even 3 versions of Xbox. They have a goal and they will meet it even if they lose a ton of money on the first couple versions. It usually takes them three versions to get it right anyway. Windows CE, Windows 9x, Windows NT(2000 and XP). Don't worry Trigger your investment in the xbox is still a good one.

parrotheads4

"How do you figure Japanese companies hate US companies? Is that why they kiss our asses all the time? Is that why they come to US trade shows and actively seek out our love and approval? That's just rediculous."

"As for Sony and Nintendo teaming up - that's about as likely as Michael Jackson turning black again. Don't you even know why Sony made the Playstation in the first place? Nintendo contracted Sony to make a CD expansion for their SNES to compete with Sega's and then Nintendo tried to bully them in the deal and steal their pants... Sony said - "screw u" and put out their own console which in turn kicked Nintendo's ass up and down the block. There's too much bad blood between these fierce competitiors and natural enemies for anything like that to happen. The rest of your comments make equally little sense."

I didn't realize you were an expert in American-Japanese business relations like myself. The Japanese (like most countries) love the "Green Back" ($). Of course they smile to your face.
The Michael Jackson quote is funny. Mind if I use that one? You are of course correct about Sony and Nintendo teaming up, but that was my point.

jeffdsmith

Sony and Nintendo could easily team up.

Yes Nintendo may be one of the most stubbourn companies known to man, for the good and the bad, but making sound buisness decisions is what they do best.

If Nintendo needed to "team up" in order bring in the revenue desired they would. I don't see Nintendo holding a flag saying "Our way or the highway" into it's grave. If things ever required the pairing up of an archrival in order to survive and make money they would do it.

Kellehair

There's definitely room for more than 2 consoles in the ever expanding video game market. I don't see why one of those companies can't be Nintendo. Maybe they'll need to team up with someone at some point but it won't be Sony or Microsoft.

jeffdsmith

I don't believe Nintendo is any trouble at all right now. I mean hell, we are basically in the golden age of Nintendo right now. People will argue that I'm sure, but look at the quality and quanity of the software we have been getting. Amazing stuff.

But again, no company is immune to failing.

Aghama

[Still OT]

I sincerely doubt there's going to be any great capability to design mods on the Xbox, which would be a huge PITA anyway. So mods would be created on the PC, just as they are now. And what are almost all these current mods for? FPS's. Who's going to design a mod for an Xbox FPS on their PC, when FPS gaming is far superior on the PC?

Tamrok

Well, you've obviously bought into the Sony myth hook, line and sinker. I won't bother to try to convince you otherwise. In your world, Sony is an altruistic company that has only the consumers best interests at heart and Microsoft is the evil empire who is determined to squeeze every last nickel out of you and probably rape your sister, too. In the real world, both companies are playing to win and both would love to see the other fail so they could set prices at whatever they see fit. At the moment, Sony, not Microsoft, is the company that is closest to having that ever sought after monopoly in the videogame market. Ideally, as consumers, we should all hope that all three companies do well enough to compete in the next generation of consoles. Remember, competition is your friend (unless you like paying high prices, of course).

Tamrok

Japanese companies hate American companies? Do you know them all personally? I guess that's why at one time not too long ago Nintendo was in formal talks with Microsoft to merge and take on the Sony juggernaut?

madcougar

Ok, I've spent the last hour reading every post in this thread and have a few things to say about this. If this rumor is true (and it would surprise me if it is), then I can only guess that Microsoft is trying to position itself for the next generation of console. Let's all be honest. PS2 has won this round and there's no denying that fact. They had a one year jump and a huge library of games in their favor. With MS throwing money around like they seem to be, one can only imagine that their is no way they will make their money back anytime soon. Again just speculation.

However, imagine if they were able to force Nintendo out of the console wars for the next round (or perhaps the one after)? Nintendo may decide that handheld is where it's at and let Sony and MS fight it out, leasing out its characters to the highest bidder. I have to imagine that at the end of the day all of these companies are only intrested in the almighty dollar. With its library of characters and its dominance of the handheld market, Nintendo will always be able to make money. Whether this includes console sales or not, who knows.

So Nintendo goes 2nd party, retains character rights for the next Gameboy, and leaves MS and Sony to duke it out. Now MS and Sony go to war to see who dominates the console market for the next X years. Just a theory. Plus it should be noted that I'm drunk right now.

jeffdsmith

If Nintendo is to "leave" the console wars I think you would see them side with one company or another. Nintendo would do this so they could have a larger infuence over the hardware being built. Nintendo really likes being able to develop hardware around bringing new ideas and technology to the market. It's one reason they still make hardware today, and are designing hardware for tom.

Trigger

I was talking about PC mods when I said that. Obviously nobody's going to be downloading user mods for the Xbox. I don't even think we'll have mods - they'll just release a seperate game instead. I believe we'll have new levels and stuff though.

s}{ammer - I'm hardly in love with microsoft or the xbox... I was clowning on the comments everyone was making. I guess if you have to explain a joke to someone it's just not funny.

parrotheads4 - saying you're an expert at something doesn't make it true... I never said I was an expert, but I know alot about it. It's far more complex than saying "japanese businesses hate american businesses." That's a stereotype and it's simply not true. I've never heard a business analyst say "the German company Fraagenschpiel walked away from a deal to purchase the French company Le Beuf today - they were quoted as saying 'they are stupid poopyheads so we don't want to buy their company'" If you're such an expert, don't try to dumb down your analysis for people here. And as an expert, you of all people should know that you have to back your statements up with facts.

Trigger

Nobody is going to push Nintendo out of the console wars... historically, they have milked each console they have produced no matter what their competitor comes out with. If anything Nintendo will push themselves out of the race... perhaps strategically? 2005 rolls around and only Sony and Microsoft will show up to the party releasing their next gen consoles. Nintendo will probably show up around 2006 or 2007 if they decide to show up at all. I still think they'll go software only wrt consoles and keep making their ultra successful handheld, but that's just me.

As for Rare - I think you're right about MS planning on them for the next gen - I still don't think they'll ever see a profit from this purchase.

Groucho

I think user mods can and will happen for the Xbox. Timesplitters 2 is shipping with a level editor...but it need not stop there. Heck, developers could even ship the game with a CD-ROM with an editing program for your PC. The sky's the limit, although this sort of thing is at least a year away IMHO.

jeffdsmith

The question for TS2 is if the maps will be able to sent seperatly from the normal saved data. I imagine, and hope it will.

Trigger

Tony Hawk maps are seperate saves on the hard drive.

jeffdsmith

yeah they are, fogot about that. thanks.

Tamrok

Came across this new article about the rumored Rare purchase by Microsoft. It sounds like it's basically a done deal. They also mention that it is believed that Nintendo has agreed to sell their stake in Rare to Microsoft. Here's the link:


http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content...me=dev&aid=663


Rob Fahey 17:06 09/09/2002
Nintendo second-party becomes a Microsoft first-party


British developer Rare, the legendary studio founded by the Stamper brothers, is thought to have been bought by Microsoft in a deal worth between £250 million and £350 million – with an official announcement expected at X02 in Seville later this month.

The studio, which has traditionally been seen as one of Nintendo’s leading second-party development houses – producing key titles for the N64 such as Goldeneye, Perfect Dark, Banjo Kazooie and Jet Force Gemini – is currently working on Starfox Adventures for the GameCube, and the production of that title is thought to be unaffected by the deal.

The future of Rare’s other GameCube titles, however, is uncertain. Many of them may make the transition to the Xbox – with the forthcoming Perfect Dark 2 expected to be an Xbox exclusive title, for one. Work on the company’s Game Boy Advance titles is likely to continue unaffected, as Microsoft has already indicated a willingness to co-develop titles for that platform.

The strongest confirmation of the deal yet has come from sources within the company, who told us that employees were notified of the deal in the past fortnight. The Stamper family has made its intentions to leave the games industry clear for around two years, but a rumoured sale to Activision fell through when the number two publisher baulked at the asking price of the studio.

Nintendo is a major shareholder in Rare, owning approximately 49 per cent of the company; it’s thought that it will be selling its stake to Microsoft as part of the deal. Rare’s relationship with the Japanese platform holder has cooled significantly over the past few years, particularly due to the recent departure of long-time allies within Nintendo such as Howard Lincoln. Having persuaded vital Japanese giants such as Sega, Namco, Square and Capcom to develop for the Cube, Rare’s importance to Nintendo has diminished greatly, and the lure of Microsoft’s greenbacks seems to have been enough to convince them to part with their stake in the studio.

Mike_AA

Wow.

I've only read some of the posts here and there in this topic. I must say that this is disturbing to me (as a Rare fan and a GC owner). Also, I would not be suprised, like someone mentioned, if we see Nintendo out of the console market in the next generation or soon thereafter.

s}{ammer

Naw, I don't see it that way. Nintendo does have support from other comapnies and they still have the first party games that sell well. I think we have all pretty much agreed that this is only to help benefit xbox2 since Rare puts games out so slow.

Shawn

Anyone know when X02 in Seville actually is(by that, i mean anything other than later this month )?

Shawn

Now, I haven't read through this thread that thoroughly, but have you said anything good about the Microsoft/Xbox?

tha_dvd_man

What I find bizarre is the idea of Microsoft purchasing Rare for almost half a billion dollars. I mean sure, MS has "infinite pockets", but not in the context of making a half-billion dollar purchase of a single developer. And let's be realistic- is Rare really that worth it? What exactly have they produced in the last two or so years? Much of the talent at Rare has been leaving to form their own companies, including the lead designers of Goldeneye, and they really aren't the world-class developer they used to be. Unless Rare has something up their sleave that we don't know about (and they very well may), MS could just be spending hundreds of millions of dollars on a rather worthless name - money that could be better spent funding small developers or buying out devs that could really prove an asset to them (like Valve, etc.)

As for Nintendo, I don't think it'll affect them all too much. Back in the N64 days Rare pretty much was half the N64's high-quality lineup; now, they're not quite the asset they once were, and Nintendo has strong backing from companies like Namco, Capcom and Square. So if the Stamper brothers want to sell Rare off (no it's not a matter of Nintendo "abandoning" them or Rare "jumping ship"), I don't think Nintendo will be too hurt. Although losing 'Perfect Dark 0' may sting a little... or a lot.

gcribbs

half a billion- that is only for the part owned by the Stamper Brothers. if they are also buying Nintendo out then they are paying a billion give or take-

Rare is worth no where close to that as a developer. It just shows how much money MS has to throw around. so far the numbers I have seen means that MS will have spent 3-4 Billion on this console generation