FonMan

uh, sorry, he's absolutely right.
Nobody ever comes out and says "hey, i want XBOX to fail"

What they say is..

"XBOX will always be in third place"
or
"with the failure of the XBOX launch in Japan, they will strugle to survive"

or

"XBOX will never be successfull because they do not have a game with a rabid folowing, like final fantasy or Mario"

or

"XBOX is ok, buy I would not buy a system that will be dead in 6 months....like DREAMCAST"

or

"XBOX was designed for PC people, not gamers..."

These are all examples of bashing the console without doing it directly. I also can not figure out why people are so obsessed with XBOX sales performance. Everthing that I have read states that XBOX had a great roll-out in the USA with MANY more titles than PS2 had. The Japanese launch, although not as strong as hoped for, was the best rollout of ANY non-japanese consumer retail product in Japanese history. Also, XBOX had to compete against the second generation of PS2 games that were much better than most of the initial PS2 stuff.

I was seeing doom and gloom on this board before Christmas last year about XBOX. Give the system a chance and better yet, wait until developers start to figure out how to best utilize the abilities of the machine.

namja

And, for the record, whether it's directed at a specific person or not, comments like that are not welcome here at DVD Talk.

namja

Also, many of you ARE bashing some consoles. Maybe you're thinking that you're just stating a fact when you say things like "Nintendo is for kids" or "PS2 doesn't have good games" or "X-Box will never be #1" But all of these are bashing statements, and they are not welcome here.

See FonMan's post above for more examples of what is unacceptable.

FonMan

Yeah, right Josh...
I guess you and Groucho now own the discussion? YOu get to pick what we talk about? XBOX fans are not dissapointed about anything, that's the point. We bought the console and buy the games. If MSOFT is going to drop the price, great, I'm all for it. But if they do, why is it everyone seems to say "ooh, look, they are failing, they gotta do something to sell more machines" Then when the fact that SONY will also drop prices it is never matched with "ooh, they must be worried that MSOFT will take some market share"

I, Like many others here are simply tired of clicking on a thread only to see yet another thread turn into Doom & Gloom about XBOX by the same bunch of people. You got something to say about specific XBOX games or hardware, I wish you would comment on that instead of this obsession about every little monthly console sales figure.

Josh H

The first is a valid analysis/opinion based on the current facts. The second is somewhat valid. The poor sales will make it tough to get high-calibur exclusives from Japanese developers. But I don't think it will cause them to struggle to survive. It just hurts the chances of moving into second place.

Lack of system sellers outside of Halo is a problem. It's games that sell systems, not high-end specs and features. They need to get something with a following, probably from a third party, as an exclusive to help improve their situation.

The other argument is indeed silly. The X-box will survive this generation . Sega was doomed by having very little consumer confidence after the failure of the Sega CD, 32 X and Saturn. Plus their pockets aren't anywhere near as deep as Microsofts. However, if the X-box is in a distant third, MS will think long and hard before making and releasing and X-box 2. But again, that's of no concern to X-box owners this generation.

That is again a silly argument that some people have thrown out. It's a console, not a PC, end of story. However, they do need to score some more traditional console genres, like platformers, action rpgs (think Zelda type games), fighters etc. (preferably as exclusives) to help shed this silly misconception that many people have.

Josh H

No one gets to pick what we talk about. Everyone has the freedom to post anything they want (with in the forum rules) and ignore any posts that don't interest them. That's my point.

We're free to discuss all news about every system, whether postive or negative.

You and spaceman almost want to censor one side of the argument about the x-box.

And that's not right. You either participate in the discussion with your side of the argument, or ignore the thread. It's a simple concept. There's no reason to do away with disussions just because some members don't agree with them. All free speech is protected (again with in Geoff's rules) regardless of whether every member agrees with it or not.

By the way, there was only one member saying Microsofts price drop was out of "desperation." And that member has proven to be very biased against the x-box. I think the price drop is very postive, and a huge step in the right direction.

FonMan

I think this is the problem Josh. If it is valid for you to think that XBOX will never appeal to you because it does not have a massive following by Japanese developers, you need to clearly state that, here is an example:

"I would never consider buying the XBOX because of its lack of support from Japanese developers"

This would be a positive, factual comment by you.

The problem is when you try to make assumptions for everyone based on your experience and preferences. I, along with a VERY large amount of others, could care less about Japanese developers and completely disagree with your "analysis" that it is a problem for MSOFT. I, personally, do not care for most Japanese games and HATE Japanese Anime. But I do not make statements like

"Because MSOFT has kept clear of the Japanese developers, they will be the best system of all time and SONY and GCN is doomed!"

Josh, you obviously have a great deal of passion and knowledge about console gaming, but you need to understand how to communicate that passion in a less inflamatory way.

Josh H

I'll try to be more clear in the future.

However, support from Japanese developers is crucial. Look at the best selling console games of all time (or any certain year). Japanese games dominate the list. That's why I say it's important, beyond simply my preference for japanese developed games. The Japanese simply have a history of making the best games in genres like fighting, platformers, traditional console rpgs etc.

The traditional console only gamer prefers these type of games to the more pc/american style of games like FPS, RTS, diablo/baldurs gate type RPGs, MMORPs, etc. Again look at sales of console games to back that up.

MS needs to get some exclusives to go after the traditional console-only gamer crowd more aggressively, and exclusive support from Japanese developers is their best bet at doing this.

You can use facts like sells and past history to make generalizations about what the X-box needs to do to improve it's situation. That's what I've always tried to do and I'll try to be more clear in that regard in the future.

Tamrok

I'm afraid I don't have a link because I read it in a print magazine. It was an interview conducted with LucasArts in which the interviewer asked if the exclusivity of Rogue Leader was permanent or might it come to other consoles. The LucasArts spokesperson's answer was "No, the exclusivity was time-based and so Rogue Leader could theoretically be ported to other consoles at some point in the future." I believe this was in the context of an interview about Star Wars Starfighter for X-Box. I'm afraid that's the best I can do as far as information goes. You can take it or leave it as you see fit.

spacecowboy1

Posted by spacecowboy1
Posted by joshhinkle

Josh H

You posted that as a reply (with a quote) to a statement by me and clearly asked "are you..."

You made the other post to cover your ass.

Static Cling

"I'm sowwy, did someone say my name? Huhuhuhuhuhuhuh..."

On a serious note, let's keep the thread on topic. Meaning enough personal attacks, and enough posting about personal attacks, and enough posting about posting about personal attacks... you get the picture. Also, this is not a thread to discuss whether or not people are bashing the X-Box.

Talk about the possible X-Box or PS2 price cuts, or this thread will most probably be closed.

Flay

Getting back on topic:

Sony says NO price cut at E3:

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/358/358880p1.html

Josh H

That sucks. I was seriously considering selling/trading in my Dreamcast and games if the PS2 dropped to $199.

Oh well, I've got Resident Evil, NBA 2K2 and Zelda Oracle of Ages/Seasons, keeping me busy now, and have pre-bought Eternal Darkness that comes out June 26. Plus the next Castlevania GBA game is due out in June.

That should keep me busy from now till late Aug. when the string of big GCN releases begins with Mario Sunshine.

gcribbs

if the XBox drops their price Sony will drop the Ps2's price.


no one will know for sure till E3 is over. do not be surprised if both companies are still talking about what they want to do till the first day of E3.

Excelesor

Exactly, like gcribbs said no one will know for sure until E3 or until E3 is over. Luckly, I have passes to E3 and if theres any new info I hear or new announcements during E3 ill shout it out once I get home from a hards day of gaming and walking around =).

Grimfarrow

I somehow doubt that Sony wouldn't do anything if the X-Box's price is lowered. Both the X-Box and the GC are still fierce competitors, and Sony can't afford to be the napping hare while the turtles trudge past it.

namja

I agree. If Microsoft drops the X-Box price, then Sony is sure to follow with a price drop on the PS2, and vice versa. Even Nintendo's price drop of the GameCube--even though its price is already lower--would affect the prices of the X-Box and PS2.

I also agree that we won't know anything for certain until E3. Even if Sony and Microsoft already decided to lower prices at E3, it is advantageous to them to announce that they are NOT going to lower prices, that way they can maximize their sales at the higher price.

Captain Harlock

Agreed. The PS2, like it or not, is almost 2 years old. Granted they have a larger part of the market place right now, but it's still and older console. There are only so many more they could sell before the market was tapped out for a $299 machine. Sony would have to make a move to counter Microsoft. It would be business sense, it would be a no brainer.

Sony's "denial" really doesn't mean much. What are they really supposed to say? "If you really want a PS2 just wait two weeks and we'll drop the price"? If they did that would kill sales for the next month or so. So for now they just tow the line saying "Everything is cool. Price drop? Never heard of it."

My guess is that the price drop IS coming. But hey that's just my opinoin.

Robb

TheAllPurposeNothing

Personally, I think Sony has managed to get Rockstar to sign an exclusionary contract, at least console-wise.

Given that GTA3 is their best selling title by far, and the most wanted by non-PS2 users, this would secure them for a while. W

The XBox loses some luster as a purchase for people on the fence if they will find this will not be available, even at $50-100 cheaper.

spacecowboy1

I haven't confirmed it yet, but another forum (www.planetxbox.com) a $199 XBOX has been confirmed.

spacecowboy1

I'm late as usual. [***]spacecowboy1 embarrased by unforgiving laughter[/***] Well, at least I'm not at a computer screen all day long.

Flay

Possibly a photoshop job, but this May 29th WalMart Ad was posted on another forum:

spacecowboy1

from all accounts, the price drop is for real.

gcribbs

it is looking more and more like that. This will mean a drop for the PS2 and a drop for the GC.


Good news for all consumers of consoles!!

I am happy since it looks like a GC might have my name on it very soon