Actually, I read an article comparing Tekken 4 PS2 to DOA3 X-Box showing several screenshots of the background environments, and it becomes painfully obvious that the PS2 has to sacrifice background detail in order to pull off 480p, whereas the X-Box does not...

Not to mention the ease of programming an X-Box game with 480p AND DD 5.1...

Xbox handles Progressive ( and a number of other HD features ) in hardware. It's one of the reasons that so many Xbox fans were ticked off when Microsoft announced that DVD playback wasn't progressive. They crippled it for reasons few understand.


Also, don't hold your breath on watching DVDs at 480p on the PS2. I seriously doubt it. Since the progressive output is generated in software, via a set of libraries that developers use when writing a game. The end result is a compiled piece of software that handles all the screen output. So I doubt you're going to see any custom PS2 DVD movies.

You can't really compare Tekken 4 on one system to DOA3 on another system as they are completely different games. Once Tekken 4 makes it to X-box (if ever) or anther PS2 prog-scan game gets ported to X-box, then they can make their comparisons. Til then, they have nothing.

you have a poor understanding of the PS2 hardware and software. i remember correcting your misunderstanding of DTV versus VESA resolutions in an earlier forum thread.

as for progressive DVD playback from a PS2, this would require the DVD playback software to be changed, or "compiled" in your description.

the equivalent DVD playback software would need to be changed on the XBox to achieve the same results.

Even if the PS2 can do 480p, we won't see it out for the same reason it didn't come out on the Xbox.

Hey if you're gonna be wrong..might as well be arrogant too huh?

If you're going to quote me...do it in context.

I NEVER said the DVD drivers need to be compiled. I stated ( FACT here pay attention ) that the progressive scan output in GAMES is handled by new libraries that Sony has released to SOFTWARE DEVELOPERS to allow for GAMES to be presented in progressive scan mode. This is in fact completely DIFFERENT from the DVD drivers. One has nothing to do with the other, which I'm sure you know but apparently forgot.

As far as the VESA comment. I know they are different things, but as a GENERAL RULE the ATSC standards that make up the DTV and HDTV formats ( 480p, 720p and 1080p) do roughly match up with VESA equivalents.

The ONLY standard that matches up between the ATSC and the VESA standards completely are the resolutions of 480i/p S/DTV standard and the 640x480 VESA standard. This is becasue they are BOTH 4:3 ratio standards ( although VESA allows for slightly different refresh rates than the ATSC does). The other ratios do NOT match perfectly because the HD formats ( 720p and 1080i ) are both 16:9 ratio formats as laid out by the ATSC and VESA does not currently have ANY 16:9 ( or 16:10) ratio standards. There are however such standards pending under an RFQ with VESA and will MATCH the HD standards for 16:9 set by the ATSC ( again with the exception of refresh rates ). The reason being that DTV and HDTV are both pushing interacte content and direct web-connectivity and the ATSC and VESA are trying to make the two standards as compatible as possible with an eye towards true convergence.

Where most people seem to get confused with next gen systems is that they mistakenly confuse the software storage media with the consumer electronic equivalent. Thus you once had people wondering if they could play their CD-ROMS in their cd-player (Check your manuals, there is a specific warning about damaging your speakers if you try. Think they just thought that up on their own?) or why a game shipped on DVD can be in High definition when the same device can't playback a HD Movie.


So....Can we get back on topic now?

let me spell out your mistake in this case. you implied that "custom PS2 DVD movies" would need to be produced to enable progressive scan playback on a PS2.

this is clearly not necessary or even logical.

the DVD movies are just data, and the DVD player is the software. the player software ultimately drives the hardware to use interlaced or progressive output.

whether either console maker will update their DVD software is irrelevant to the technical implementation requirements.

Again, my comments were based on the TOPIC of "NEW GAME DEVELOPMENT LIBRARIES". Which are NOT the same as the software and hardware required to handle DVD 3:2 pull down.

In fact DVD video playback is handled by not only different software but in the case of the PS2 and Xbox different Chipsets.
The Emotion ENgine plays ZERO part in DVD video Playback in the PS2 and the Nividia GPU doesn't affect the playback in Xbox. They both have their own MPEG2 decoders that handle DVD video. It has NOTHING TO DO with the "game" side of the systems.

Like I said, most people have trouble getting their heads around the idea that they ARE NOT the same thing. In fact you can almost think of your PS2 as having TWO devices inside it ( three if you count the PSone features which reside on what is in effect a single chip version of the PSone which also handles much of the controller I/O for the PS2). One device plays games and one plays movies. They use different hardware to accomplish these tasks. Aside from the obvious places where they must overlap ( Using the PS2 controller as a remote for the DVD playback for example.)

( This should get me blasted good)
Its like having a Cassette deck and a CD player in your boom-box. The laser on the cd player is NOT reading your cassettes.

Or an even better analog...

You turn on the HOT water and it comes out the tap...
You turn on the COLD water and it comes out the tap...

ALL the water is coming from the city water system ( dvd) but it's NOT all going through the same plumbing to get to the tap.
Cold water takes a more direct route to the sink than the hot which must get "processed" by the hot water heater. They end up the same place, but took very different paths to get there.

again, you make presumptions from limited knowledge of the two console systems. and your presumptions are incorrect. let me point you to some material from a respected gaming journalistic source:

http://firingsquad.gamers.com/guides...k2-1/page5.asp

paragraph 3 provides fine-grain details of how MPEG-2 decoding is performed on the PS2, and at a higher level, how it's done on XBox and GameCube.

unlike you, these console makers wisely realize that MPEG-2 decode hardware benefits both DVD playback and in-game FMV playback.

:::Sigh:::


It's like talking to a wall.

Have a great day. Oh and BTW, maybe you should read the WHOLE article, not just a paragraph that you mistakenly think supports your position. Taken OUT of context ( you're good at that by the way) that one paragraph would seem to support your argument ( albeit weakly), but when read as part of the overall article you realize that the entire piece is written from a programming standpoint and yes MPEG-2 is used in FMVs in games but its still decompressed by the game side of the equation. In deed that articles ONLY comments about DVD playback on in a side bar and even at that they are simple "Looks Good" type comments at that.

Oh, and that is NOT what I would consider "fine-grained" explanation. It would take the entire article to do a "fine-grained" explanation of how DVD playback and game rendering are handled and yet another article on Mpeg-2 decoding and both the subtle and major differences between DVD playback and game FMV playback and how they are handled.


But since I am so far off base( despite 90% of my information coming directly from SCEA) and you seem to be so arrogantly smug in your personal correctness. Why not enlighten all of us? You've done a fine jub of making quotes of other people's out of context comments. Why not try posting a couple of your own on the subject?

i've already stated my facts and provided my evidence. i do have a technical background and work in the console industry, but it's not my job to spell out logical details that are otherwise obvious -- they seem obvious to the other readers here anyway.

i'm not here because i like to argue, your posts simply demanded correction and re-correction.

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"
Sammuel Clemmens (Mark Twain)

Actually, you are incorrect. It's Samuel L. Clemens not Sammuel Clemmens .

would you believe my 'mmm' key is stuck?

yeah, that's it.