ScandalUMD

Nobody ever really gets tired of this topic, and with the X-Box and Gamecube about to launch, it seems reasonable to revisit it.

I've got to say, the X-Box is creating a very limited amount of mainstream interest. On top of that, Dead or Alive 3 is getting lackluster reviews, which hurts the launch lineup. Halo still looks great, but this system doesn't have the games to compete with PS2 for holiday dominance.

I'm betting on the Gamecube to end up getting the "hot toy" status. There are never two competing, roughly analogous "hot toys". Gamecube will have the long lines, the parents fighting over units, the high e-bay prices, and the news stories. X-Box will sell about the same amount of units, because Nintendo won't be able to keep up with the demand. In the cultural mind, however, X-Box will be an also-ran, and will be cemented in the collective mind as a loser system.

Also, the media push has been pretty lackluster. Microsoft will have to do a lot of work to give the X-Box the proper "cool" quotient, especially considering that Microsoft is a very geeky company.

The look of the thing certainly won't inspire any fetishistic lust. I know the box had to be big and bulky to get all that stuff in it, but looking at the thing doesn't make me want to own it.The PS2 is sleek and stylish. The Gamecube is cute and compact. The X-Box is big and bulky. And, for all that extra size, the games don't look any better.

Leaving aside the finer points of hardware comparisons, how do you think this console war will play out in the market, based on what you've seen of the hype?

Aghama

Speak for yourself, eh?

Groucho

[Miss Cleo]I predict the following statements will appear in this thread, mon:

• Purple
• Kiddie
• Mature
• Windoze OS
• Crashes
• Blue screen of death
• PC Ports
• Hard drive

And so on and so forth...

[/Miss Cleo]

djones6746

I currently have the PS2.....and will have both the Gamecube and Xbox in the near future as all systems have or will have something to offer for gamers. I honestly believe the people who slam certain systems in threads such as this are the people who do not have the financial capability to purchase all systems available. Therefore, they slam the systems which they do not own. Maybe it makes them feel better.......


All three systems are worth having in one's possession!!!

Jeraden

By what information are you making the statement that the x-box is creating little mainstream interest?

Judging by reviews currently available, neither GC nor XBox are getting across-the-board glowing reviews. You have Halo leading for the xbox and Rogue Squadron leading for the GC. Aside from those, there aren't really any 'must-have' games for either system.

Looks like just another xbox bashing post to me with all personal opinions and as usual, zero facts.

Aghama

I honestly believe you're making gross and groundless generalizations.

dgc

"Nobody ever really gets tired of this topic, and with the X-Box and Gamecube about to launch, it seems reasonable to revisit it."

Yes we do, it's just that we feel the need to respond to obviously biased points of view.

"I've got to say, the X-Box is creating a very limited amount of mainstream interest."

Ummm, ok.... any facts???

" but this system doesn't have the games to compete with PS2 or holiday dominance".

I feel the xbox has the best line of games for any previous new console release. PS2 has an advantage in that ....duh, it was released before the xbox and that it is backwards compatible with PS1 games.

"In the cultural mind, however, X-Box will be an also-ran, and will be cemented in the collective mind as a loser system."

huhhhh???

"Also, the media push has been pretty lackluster."

What are you talking about? I'm hearing more about the xbox from the media than any other console.

"The PS2 is sleek and stylish. The Gamecube is cute and compact. The X-Box is big and bulky. And, for all that extra size, the games don't look any better. "

I've had the pleasure of demoing and comparing the xbox and the games DO look better and sound better.

"Leaving aside the finer points of hardware comparisons, how do you think this console war will play out in the market, based on what you've seen of the hype"

With all that you've said, now you want to leave out the finer points of hardware comparisons? Yeah, what the hell leave the hardware out of it, it has nothing to do with the value and performance of a gaming console.

what a joke of a post/thread. Too bad you couldn't retitle your thread to read "Console war against the xbox"

BTW, I own and love my N64 and PS2 and at times can't stand Bill Gates, but I will still be getting an xbox because it looks very promising and is backed by a huge software corporation that did a lot of R & D with gamers and industry experts before developing their console.

Let's face it folks, competition in any industry/medium is healthy and ensures continuous improvement and a better experience in the forms of entertainment we choose.

spankyj

Screw the Xbox.

I've played all 3 systems, and to me, Xbox is the odd man out. I played the new NFL Fever game for the Xbox, supposed to rival Madden. I don't think so. Having never played the Xbox prior, I picked up the lunky piece of plastic they call a controller, and chose to play with the Buccaneers. The computer kicked it off to me, Jacquez Green caught the ball, than ran back the kickoff for a touchdown. Now how can a team that has NEVER IN THEIR HISTORY returned a kickoff suddenly return one in the game. Now if I was a great Xbox gamer, maybe I could see it. But the only button I used was the analog. This would have NEVER happened in Madden, especially if it was someone's first time playing. After returning the kickoff, I walked away. I didn't need any further playing time to realize that Xbox is suck. NFL Fever especially. On a different occasion, I played Halo. Wasn't impressed. The graphics were nice, but compared to Perfect Dark, I couldn't really see the difference. I don't everyone else's opinion of the controls, but I hated them. I found it hard to manuever my man, apparently I am missing the hype. If I had to chose between the new gen Halo or my "old school" Perfect Dark, PD would win every time.
Lastly, I will NEVER buy an Xbox. I don't care how good it is. Something that our society as a whole fails to practice is loyalty. Ever since I was small, I have only ever bought Nintendo consoles for my home video game entertainment. I have no doubt that Nintendo's Gamecube will be another quality product in the greatest line of game consoles. For that reason, I will buy the Gamecube. It doesn't matter to me how great people believe the Xbox to be. My loyalty is with Nintendo, and as long as there is a Nintendo product, I'll be buying it. I will not let a dominating monopoly take over the gaming industry like they have with the computer industry. The consumer loses. They'll have to fight damn hard to ever gain an inch of respect from me. Commie Bastards.

dgc

Another brilliant post by someone who judges a console by playing one 3rd party developer game. Did you play Madden for the xbox?

And why bother comparing Microsoft's market share in the software/OS business to the gaming industry. Yeah, i wish MS had more competition for Operating Systems and Office apps but that's just the point. Competition is good for consumers regardless if it's a mega corp like MS.

Do you honestly think MS can take a 80% market share for gaming consoles? No chance in hell. Nintendo and Sony are too deeply rooted in this market. That's like a new cola company coming along and knocking out Coca Cola or Pepsi.

Did we curse Sony for getting into the console biz when they had such a large market share in the home entertainment industry?

Remember: More competiton = Better Gaming.

drexel

This thread has gone down the $$itter. It was obvciously started by a pro GC fan who has no credibility. Let's be hoinest the X box has not blown you away because you made your mind up before ever trying a system. All three consoles are huge in the media rightr now and you can't turn on the TV without seeing a commercial for all 3. X box has as a matter of fact gotten the most press because the media is interested in the giant companies first foray into consoles. NOt all games have gotten perfect reviews but nearly all have been favorable, the only bad review for DOA is that it is similar to the last one by a writer who does not seem to have a grasp on sequels for games. All have said it might be the best looking game ever. Add that to the great review DOA2 got and add graphics and anyone who likes fighters will be interested. Same story with Rogue Squadron. I think the wild card is Halo because that is a game no one has seen done before.

RoyalTea

the three most important factors for me:

• software
  
• price
  
• controller comfort (if a system kicks ass, but my hands start to hurt after five minutes, what's the point?)

=gamecube

dgc

I agree.

Are there any consoles that have controllers that make your hands hurt after 5 min. of playing? For me, after 5 hours of intense gaming in expert mode, it doesn't matter what controller I'm using. My hands BE HURTIN for CERTAIN.

I hear the xbox controller is too large for some hands. Maybe they did this on purpose because they were gearing the console towards teen and adult gamers. I'm just speculating. Personally all the controllers I've used felt relatively comfortable. You would think a lot of time and ergonomics goes into the design of a controller. If so, there's always the improved controllers from the 3rd party manufacturers but we really should'nt have go for the extra $$$.

ScandalUMD

Hey, I never said it was anything different. That's my assessment of the situation. Previous to this generation, I was a Nintendo fanboy. This time, I felt the PS2 was the strongest investment, and it was just too cool not to own. I could probably cough up $200-$300 for a second console now, if I really wanted to, but quite frankly, I find neither the X-Box nor the Gamecube particularly compelling. A game console is a big expense for me.


Sure. I haven't seen a lot of magazine covers. I'm not seeing a lot of news stories. I'm not seeing a very big launch preparation in many stores. On a much smaller and more personal scale, I don't know anyone who is buying one. The hype for this thing looks less like the PS2, and more like the Dreamcast. That does not bode well.

I think the launch lineup is very good, certainly better than PS2's. But it is not better than the PS2 November 2001 lineup, and that is what it must compete with. The X-Box games are not better now, and likely won't be better in the future. Halo represents years of painstaking work on every aspect of the game. Its detail level should be attributed to the dedication of Bungie, not to the X-Box.

Halo is not a "launch game" that will soon be improved upon. It probably uses most of the X-Box's capabilities to their maximum effectiveness, and it won't soon be surpassed, on any platform.

The X-Box, due to the familiarity of its hardware, will probably not show the improvement curve seen on the more unusual architecture of the PS2.

I'm betting that, after launch, the Gamecube will be getting the press as the "hot toy," and the PS2 will outsell them both combined. Sony is ramping up PS2 production to really boost the userbase during the holidays, when the other consoles are in short supply. When the smoke clears, the PS2 will probably have an installed US userbase of well above 10 million. That's essentially unsurpassable.


Better than what? Better than Metal Gear Solid 2? Better than FFX? Better than Rogue Leader? And on what sort of monitor? The HD monitors that Microsoft uses for their demos really show off the HD support, but how much better will the games look on most people's TV's? The X-Box isn't really pulling away from the competition, from what I've seen.



Well, the hardware for all three systems is considerably different. The X-Box certainly has more hardware effects than PS2, but I've heard that the P3 processor is less effective than the emotion engine at many necessary calculations for physics and AI. That seems hard to swallow, since X-Box is 733 MHZ, and the Emotion Engine is 290, but, nonetheless, the X-Box simply isn't blowing the competition out of the water the way its specs seem to indicate it should.

Basically, I don't understand hardware that terribly well. I read the Firingsquad.com analysis of the PS2, and parts of it didn't make very much sense to me. I also read interviews on IGN.com's gamecube site, which indicate that the new consoles are not as far ahead of the PS2 as many people assume. MGS2, Devil May Cry, Rogue Leader and GT3 are all as beautiful, visually, as anything on the X-Box, especially on a normal television, where the X-Box's HD support is not exhibited.

So, unless someone is an engineer or a game developer, I'd say market assessments and game comparisons are a lot more valid than semi-accurate hardware analyses.

ScandalUMD

Yikes. Actually, I'm not buying a GC. I'm sticking with PS2. I was planning to buy a GC, but, considering that Luigi's mansion is supposedly pretty weak and Metroid has been farmed out to the second string, I'm giving Nintendo a break this generation.

I think the market has already spoken, and the X-Box and GC are competing for second place, and I think GC has the edge, because it isn't necessarily gunning for PS2's market.

As for DOA 3, both IGN's X-Box site and Gamespot were unimpressed by it. And I think they DID understand what a sequel is. A sequel is not just the same game with better graphics. At least. a good sequel isn't. DOA 3 looks great. Not any better than MGS2, though, if you ask me.

darkside

These threads are making me hate all the available consoles.

Each person has enough info by now to pick the console that is right for them. No matter what you pick you really can't lose this week as long as you like the games available for the console you buy.

Nuff said on this topic.

ipkevin

Uh, at the time of its release, the DC was the biggest selling US launch EVER. It was considered a big success.

Anyway, from what I've seen, the X-Box has more press than the DC ever did. I don't know what you've been watching or reading, but I've been bombared with far more X-Box media than either GC or PS2, especially in mainstream outlets. I also think their TV ads are far better than Gamecube's (which are just weird and don't sell the games well).

Besides, it's what happens in the long run that counts. N64 & Saturn both had bigger launches than the Playstation. What happened there?

drexel

here is ign's review summary

Here is a news story where Sony states it is not worried about Gamecube but is pushing PS3 faster due to Microsoft

http://news.ft.com/ft/gx.cgi/ftc?pag...id=ZZZT22LCC0C

Hope that's pasted right. Anyways it's on shacknews. I feel like I'm sticking up for the big bully here. I don't care for Microsofts practices but realize when they make a fine product

Chaos

I don't buy it. He (Sony) states that the DC had a 'disastrous' launch. C'mon, this guy's obviously spouting out propaganda. He also says the Nintendo is associated with Gameboy, not consoles. This is pathetic--------it's nothing but propaganda!! It's only 4 days until we see what's really going to happen, and I hope the launches make Sony eat their words.

PhYbEr

I'm not here to bash any system but if you look at the history of these companies you can see which one is more likely to build a system with the gamer in mind. Nintendo's entire company is based on gaming while Sony plays the numbers game and only tries to stay one step ahead of whatever else is out there. The most powerful hardware is nothing without great games to back it up. Without the support of many gaming companies behind you like Nintendo has always been famous for, I can't see buying the system. Don't even get me started on the xbox.. (woops ok a little bashing)

ScandalUMD

My bad. IGN loved DOA3. Gamespot and Gamespy both didn't like it as much. As for the article, it's BS. Microsoft never built much hype in Japan (Halo won't sell systems over there). So Sony wants them to be a more viable 3rd player to jostle with Nintendo there. That just lets Sony get more exclusive games. The idea of shortening the console life is actually a diss to MS. Their plan is for a strong 5 year life for the X-Box. If it only makes it 3 years, they lose money on it.

belboz

Drexel, thanks for the link. That was a good article.

When you have a company like MS enter your market, you'd be stupid not to take it seriously. Mr. Ando seems to be voicing the proper level of concern about the matter. He didn't actually say that they were moving to accelerate the PS3 release, though, that was the writer's speculation.

If you look at what Sony is actually doing, I think it shows that they're taking more of a wait-and-see approach to the XBox.

Towards the end of the article Mr. Ando is quoted saying:
I'm a little surprised they're already breaking even. That's a huge competitive advantage. It shows clearly that they could have dropped the price on PS2 if they were truely concerned that GC or XBox was going to impinge on their sales this quarter.

I think Sony is feeling very confident this quarter and will wait to see exactly how it plays out before they decide how to respond.

Aghama

Does anyone actually buy this? Of course the graphics are outstanding, but the gameplay is barely different from DOA2; the only changes IGN notes are decreased damage from counters and better dodging. How do great graphics make "the best 3D fighting game" and a "new standard of video gaming"?

Ghym

Well, I've been playing DOA3 for the last couple of days and I'm having a lot of fun with it.(My roommates work for MS and we got an XBox on Tuedsay.) I will admit that it's not a huge leap from DOA2, but it sure is pretty. The environments are a lot better and Brad Wong, the drunken boxer is a lot of fun to play. I don't know if I'd call it the "new standard of video gaming", but it is hella fun. I only hate that I have to learn the moves all over again. DOA3, Halo, and Munch have been the most fun so far. NHL Hitz was pretty fun too. XBox has some killer graphics, but I love the DD 5.1 support. Halo makes good use of it. The system is really powerful and I think there are going to be some great games on it.

Sominex

I am sick of hearing X-Box is no good and is too "bulky" .

It CLEARLY blows the Gamecube out of the water!!!

Gamecube is going to be discontinued by the end of the year!!

Look at it this way-

What does X-Box have?

Well, a GREAT corporation backing it and a marvelous, inteligent, non-whiny, not a bully or law breaker in any way, sophisticaed, non-nerdy guy leading the corporation

Duh!!! it has a faster chip in it! Who cares that these are some non-used chips that were lying around that they could not GIVE away! They fit great in the system! Who the hell wants a specially designed chip just to make video games better and more interactive? Nintendo is sooo stupid for doing that one!


It has a HD that you'll never use!! This is the best part. Ever fill up the HD on your computer too fast?? Well thats' why X-Box give you GB upon GB that will never get filled! So, no more problems with that. And who cares if u have one in your computer already


Great controller!! I mean, who said bigger is not better?? As long as you have fingers that are 7" each, and a palm to rival Bigfoot, this is the best controller for you. And it feels SO SO SO SO comfortable in your hand! There is no way it feels like an uncomfortable hunk of cheap heavy plastic


Now.. the size is truley the best part! Anything that is bigger then my VCR HAS to be better!!!! I mean, who wants a tiny, puny space saving powerful machne like the GameCube?? Not me!!! I want something that will take up maximum shelf space and not show any more power then the puny GameCube.


Hey, can GameCube play DVD's?? NO!!!! And ya know what? I would love to pay an extra $100 just so I play DVDs. Because I already own a very nice DVD Player. But I am going to throw that out or give it to goodwill, b/c the X-Box plays DVD's! That is so worth me spending an extra $100 for something my 'DVD Player' already does.


And it is sooooo ridiculous, that my DVD Player came with the reomote control!! Who the hell packages essential components like a reomote control WITH the item? That is old school stuff! I am more then happy to pay an extra $30 to bring a feature that I am paying for already.


now the gamecube... hmm.. not much to say about this "kiddie system"


Well, for starters it's so small!!!! What the hell is good about a small system that has a powerful processor and can play games as good as X-Box? If it plays games on an equal level as X-Box, I want it to be big, bulky, space consuming! Come on now..


The controller??? I LAUGH AT THIS!! Why the hell would I want a sturdy, ergonomic, highly researched and designed contoller that is designed to fit in anyones hand and give them maximum comfort AND gameplay? That is just stupid!

It's such a kiddie system! I am sick of Nintendos Kiddie systems!! Star Wars, Wave Race, Metroid, and BIO-HAZARD. Such little kid, pre-school games I don't want a kiddie system! That bio-hazard was cool in grades K through 4, but not any more! It's too childish for me!

And Nintendo knows NOTHING NOTHING NOTHING about gaming or video game consoles! It's not like they pioneered video games and are one of, if not the wealthiest and largest game company in the world.


Why the hell do I want experience, expertise, a long line of award winning game titles, and the funding created from things like pokeman?? Why?? Why do I need there "expert experience"?


Yeah... you got me now guys? X-Box will rule! THEY have experience, a GREAT, hunky, smart, CEO who has never broken any laws or business practices. They have a great huge machine with a great huge controller and they care enough to make sure that they don't damage your dvd remote by cramming it in the box with your system!

Oh yeah!!!! X-Box is gonna blow everything else out of thw water!!!

Let's go Bill!!!

Sominex

In all seriousness..


the X-box will have some cool games, and so will Nintendo...

I am just tired of eharing whiners complain about Gamecbue..

If it is so bad, why does it get so many reviews? that's weird...


And yes, MS and BIll Gates have a bad rep (justly so!)


but we'll see.. no won't we?


Everyone will have a perfect system -but there is no perfect system for everyone