Just wanted to make comment on Japanese games.

Metroid is huge here right? We were all dissapointed to hear that the reins were being handed over to an American developer, right?

Not sure if most people know this, but Samus Aran is not popular in Japan. At all. Like Jet Set Radio popular.

Japanese support is important for any console to succeed, but not anymore so than American support. Think of what would happen if a console had only Konami ESPN sports games instead of EA and Sega (the sports titles, except for tennis, have developers based in North America) titles?

Japanese developers tend to be the best at developing RPG's and Fighting games.

American's usually develop the top FPS and Sports titles (for American sports!).

There are exceptions to the rule, but that's primarly how the sales go here.

Europeans are very cool too of course : P LOL

I'm seriously glad to see a thread about the "system wars" that has a good degree of intelligence in it, instead of "blah". Personally, (and I got flamed for even mentioning this before, so don't you dare this time) I wonder how the x-box will fit in. Presumably there are 4 groups of gamers
Casual kid gamers-Will not be willing to spend the money
Hardcore kid gamers-Will try to get the money, but probably won't succeed
Casual adult gamers-Probably not a high amount of buyers here either
Hardcore adult gamers-Most, if not roughly all, will buy this.
It seems that the ps2 has already won the war before the battle takes place. Don't get me wrong, if you were to ask for the better system, I'd have to say x-box hands down. Faster processor, better sound and graphics, along with no need for memory cards, modem built in, 4 player adapter built in, supporter of broadband, etc etc. But I don't think it matters. Ps2 is on the second wave of games and they are downright sick. Ico, Silent Hill 2, Gta3, mgs2, thps3, madden 2002, devil may cry, etc etc etc. Xbox needs to have a trademark game. A system seller. Right now, several people are excited about several things, but there is no uniformity.

The current fall-Christmas lineup of Sony is sick! September: ICO, Silent Hill 2, Madden 2002, Spy Hunter.
October: Devil May Cry, NHL 2002, Grand Theft Auto 3, Tony Hawk 3, Ace Combat 4
November:Metal Gear Solid 2, Smackdown 3, 007
December:Jak and Daxter, Final Fantasy X(there is a rumor on the internet that il will be released on Dec. 26)

Among those games, I'd say about 5 games are system sellers and 7-8 are AAA games. X Box doesn't have a system seller: its biggest games are Halo, DOA3, and Munch; three niche-type games. Halo is a FPS and apart from PC, FPS are not system sellers especially a non-online one. Timesplitters sold great last year but it was not a system seller, I mean no one bought a PS2 for it. DOA 3 looks great but I think fighting games are on the downside right now. The last fighting game that sold systems was Soul Calibur but it was not popular enough to keep the Dreamcast from failling. Also, the DOA series never has been big sellers, DOA 2 got outsold by an outdated Tekken game at the PS2 launch last year! And Munch is just to advanced for casual gamers. System sellers usually are sports or adventure games and the good titles in those categories for X Box are multi-platform. X Box needs Microsoft to deliver a big AAA game(no, Flight Simulator doesn't count) or have a big exclusive title(like Metal Gear Solid or Resident Evil for example. The Sega exclusives don't count because the other 2 console will get Sega exclusives too.(Sonic on GC, VF4 on PS2)

I think the XBox is in the same position that the Sega Dreamcast found itself in a few years ago: trapped between Sony and Nintendo with no place to grow.

Back then the Sony Playstation had a large installed user base and large library of games and the teen and college-age market locked up and Nintendo had sewn up the market for younger kids with the N64 with Pokemon and Mario games. There was basically no where for the Dreamcast to grow their market share even though they had a superior system and tried their best with some very innovative and well done titles, it still wasn't enough.

Today the Xbox finds itself in pretty much the same situation: Sony has established themselves with the PS2 and has already accumulated a substantial library of titles for it along with a substantial user base, while the GameCube will once again draw on Nintendo's strongest liscenses: Pokemon, Star Wars, Mario, and Zelda, all of which are guaranteed to sell systems for them like they did on the N64.

Without any real stand out titles in the works for the XBox, they really have no where to go. Sony will continue to get the older gamers as the next generation versions of classic PSX games like Metal Gear Solid come out, while its pretty much a given that Nintendo will lock up the younger set with Mario and Pokemon games.

There was also mention of American vs Japanese software developers and that Microsoft needed Japanese software developers to survive. I happen to agree.

Not because I believe that Japanese developers are better than American ones, but because the best Japanese software developers work exclusively in the console market, while in the U.S., the best American developers work primarily in the computer market, two markets which generally don't overlap well. The problem is that computer games usually don't translate well to console games and vice versa. Top computer games like Starcraft, Civilization, SimCity, Diablo just don't work as well in console format, while console games like Zelda, Mario Kart, MGS, Gran Turismo are more inconvenient to play on a computer.

So the problem for Microsoft is that since most American developers' experience is with computer games, they'll be less likely to produce a good console game as the Japanese developers, who make console development a primary focus.

thanks for keeping this thread civil.

while there are many valid points as to why the xbox will or won't succeed, nobody really knows which is why we're all speculating.

like a lot of things in life, this ps2 v xbox (and also v. gc) is like coke v. pepsi. people will vow that one is better than the other, and probably one will have more sales than the other, but all will have strong following. no one will be "correct" as people will have their preferences.

I'm sorry, Namja. You usually make a lot of sense, and you're a pretty good mod and all, but this statement is kind of silly. I know we need to keep the thread civil, and not argue, but you can't say things like these and leave out important facts.

Everyone knows... EVERYONE knows... that Dr. Pepper is by far the best carbonated soda. To just include Coke and Pepsi in your scenario was irresponsible, at best. Criminal at its very worst.

I agree too, I like playing First Person shooters like CS on my PC because its easy to play and works for the situation, its easier to play with a keyboard and mouse, but when they're ported to the console they don't seem to play as well. I don't think I would like playing FFX or Devil May Cry on my PC on the other hand, I like watching it on my big TV with my big speakers, the console controllers also work better for those games (DMC!!) . I don't think American developers are bad in making console games, they just have yet to prove themselves in genres that Japanese developer's excel at. Anyone remember Secret of Evermore for the SNES? That was decent effort but didn't even come close to the far superior Secret of Mana. Sure there are some excellent US console titles though, and Rare reigns at the top of the UK developers!

About FFX being released early, I don't know about it being released on Dec. 26? Why would Square miss the biggest shopping season of the year releasing it a day after Christmas. I think they already announced it was coming mid January which is well after that, but if it is coming early then cool!

im mad that other topic got closed with that idiot spacecowboy or whateva


all i gotta say is that in my estimation
nintendo has never done me wrong
and for that i am going with gamecube

xbox doesnt look like it has a killer app
psx2 is nice but im not paying that much for dvd player with only 2 controllers (why dont they just make it 4 controllers?)

i think all the franchises that nintendo can lean on will allow them to be a major player in the market place for a long long time

thats it

I just want to make a comment I think is important.

I think we are all winners this Holiday season. No matter what kind of games you like you have an option this November. Action fans, RPG fans, Sports fans, FPS fans, etc, etc. We are all covered. With Microsoft, Nintendo, and Sony all putting out great consoles and among the three covering every genre I think this is a great time for console gaming. I know the market probably can't support all three for long, but we are much better off the more competition there is in the market.

Whether you prefer the Xbox, PS2, Gamecube, Game Boy Advance, or a combination of the four, this is about as good of a time as you could ask for. I personally hope the day never comes when there is only one console available. The competition of one company pushing the technology to try and best another is what keeps things on the cutting edge.

We all have our preference in console going into the end of the year, but we should try not to be negative about it and just try to enjoy all the games that are available. I for one seriously hope that some time next year I will own all three. It may or may not happen, but there is nothing wrong with having options.

Nosebleed-
Your right.
Their wrong.

One of the factors that's often overlooked when people discuss the reasons for the Playstation's surprising success is the Sony name. Whatever your personal feelings about their products, it's impossible to deny that Sony is the most powerful brand name in consumer electronics. That's an invaluable asset when you launch a new product.

Even so, I think people forget that the Playstation wasn't exactly a phenomenal success right out of the gate. It took over a year and the eventual disappointment with Nintendo's N64 to establish it as the undisputed market leader. At this point, MS and Nintendo can only hope to follow a similar route.

belboz, I agree with you. And I think it's also important to realize how important name recognition is in regard to Nintendo. Most people arent "hardcore" gamers like us and they dont stay on top of these things. I mean my entire family still calls any console they see Nintendo. I dont know if it was someone on here who said it but Nintendo is to consoles what Kleenex is for tissues when it comes to a lot of adults. A lot of adults, adults who will be buying games for their children this winter season, seem to think Nintendo is synonymous with console gaming and will buy accordingly. The fact that it's $100 dollars less will greatly help as well.

Also, something that rarely gets any mention and probably with due cause but I think the GBA-GC link up should at least help GC sales a bit. Gameboy Advances are selling like hotcakes and although we havent been shown that many games that will use the connection, I think it's just a bonus factor that will help sales in the long run, maybe even significantly. That is if Nintendo pulls it off right.

Sony is obviously here to stay. I personally think Nintendo is coming in second with Microsoft coming in a distant third.

With that said, I totally agree with darkside. I dont see why some people love bashing other systems so passionately. With three corporations in the market, we all truly win.

Is there anyone here who thinks that the X-Box has any possibility of selling more units than the Gamecube between now and Christmas? Does anyone expect the X-Box or the Gamecube to ever surpass the installed base of the PS2?

I'd like to hear the reasoning, because, to me, things look pretty bad for Microsoft.

Well I see a whole lot more reasons that the Gamecube will outsell the XBox.

In order of importance:

1. Price - The bottom line is, the GC costs $100 less. Yeah, no DVD, hard drive, etc... but the people want to play games on the console... and $100 is substantial.

2. Games - Plain and simple, the Christmas lineup looks a whole lot better for the GC. Xbox has more games coming out, but there seems to be more "must-haves" for the Cube. For one, having played Rogue Squadron, I have to say, it is going to sell a LOT of consoles.

3. Sheer numbers - The recent news does not bode well for the Xbox. Decreased launch numbers? It's hard to sell a lot of units if you can't get them shipped out.

4. History - There are still a lot of people that associate Nintendo with consoles. Microsoft on the other hand... aren't they the ones still fighting with the justice department?

5. Bad Press - Xbox demo units crashing? For me, that would make me shy away from getting one. The Cube, however, has been up and running for over a month now in Japan, and I haven't been hearing horror stories of problems.

I'm not concluding the Xbox will fail... I just think it will get off to a slower start. If the game development comes around, it could easily surpass the Gamecube in sales. I don't think either of the newcomers will surpass the PS2 in number of units, just because of the huge headstart the PS2 has.

IMO, I still fail to see this. Maybe it's just because I hate sports games (snowboarding could break the cycle, it's too early to say), and I didn't find the original rogue squadron to be much fun either (I'm too much of an X-Wing fan, and I hated the view and control), but the only games I see on the GC list that I'd be interested in picking up are Crazy Taxi and maybe Wave Race (not familiar with the original, but I like racing).

Xbox on the other hand has DOA3, Halo, Fusion Frenzy, Star Wars Starfighter: SE, PGR, Max Payne, Mad Dash Racing (rental first, but looks fun), and Air Force Delta Storm all at launch, with SH2 and Blood Wake coming w/in a month after.

Guess it all depends on the types of games you like to play. I'm too picky. ;p

Tuan Jim