Re: Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+) -- news, rumors, etc.
 

I agree with Spiderbite. For me it occurred much later with The Last Jedi. I really hated that movie. It broke Star Wars for me. Especially after The Force Awakens and Rogue One which I absolutely loved. I even attended Star Wars Celebration that released TLJ trailer. So I was absolutely hyped. But then I watched it. And although I liked it coming out if it and looking forward to the last movie. I realized after the fact that KK and Lucasfilm had absolutely no plan after that. They didn't have any kind of a story line for the trilogy and were just half assing it. That really broke Star Wars for me. But it might have been for the better because now I don't have much faith in the franchise. So I have zero expectations. I just don't take it seriously anymore. I do get excited for things and love the Mandalorian but I enjoy everything that comes out to some degree. Going through it with kids helps a lot too. Because of course I'm not going to push my negative views on them. I want them to enjoy it for what it is. A mediocre franchise set in a wonderful scifi world. I still love the idea of Star Wars but I no longer expect much from the actual shows and movie. And I know that sounds sad but it is what it is.

Re: Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+) -- news, rumors, etc.
 

Was it because of Snoake's sudden death? Or Luke not being the saviour the heroes hoped? Because there was a plan for that. Adam Driver was pitched an anti-redemption arc when he signed onto the ST. The whole idea was for the sequel trilogy to be about Kylo Ren becoming the next Vader/Palpatine level threat, starting out as merely a Vader fanboy. But that changed either late in the production of TLJ or during pre-production of DotF (before the latter was retooled into ROS). I can only assume he would then have remained the big bad for X - XII, had they not course corrected so drastically.

Then again, Obi Wan was meant to play a role during the ST (hinted by Ewan McGregor's vocal cameo in TFA). So multiple things that were intended to play out were nixed.

Re: Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+) -- news, rumors, etc.
 

I thought the lead actress was good but not great, the fight scenes were movie-worthy but the overall plot was somewhat weak. The lack of a cohesive plan has really hurt the franchise and the best thing to come out of the universe are the live-action rides at Disney which is hardly accessible to most fans these days. Its to the point where I did not know this was live action until well after it started airing or Ashoka. I pretty much assume most stuff coming out is anime which I am not a fan of for the most part. (I loved Yamota/Star Blazers when I was a kid but something about anime never really caught on with me)

Re: Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+) -- news, rumors, etc.
 

Kylo was the only good thing to come out of the ST. They ruined him completely in TLJ. You cast Driver, who was cast perfectly, and turn him into what we saw in TRoS? I have such a hatred for that trilogy, I can't even watch TFA anymore which I didn't mind when it came out.

Re: Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+) -- news, rumors, etc.
 

I know certain very loud individuals on here have argued with me that a lack of a plan didn't make a difference at all in Star Wars but that is what's killing Disney's Star Wars now. Giving these glorified pet projects to individuals is exactly how we are where we are now.

Re: Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+) -- news, rumors, etc.
 

To be fair, the OT has no right to be as good as it is, given it too was made without a true plan. Lucas blew his creative load when he made SW/ANH, since he assumed he'd only get to make one. Then it was a scramble to come up with new plot threads for ESB and RotJ. Vader being Luke's dad? Leia being Luke's sister? Leia being "another"? All that was made up on the fly.

Would a carefully though out plan have helped the ST. Absolutely. But the real problem was constant course correction and/or not building on what came before, and a slew of bad ideas during the trilogy capper. I'm in the minority in that I enjoyed TLJ and its many curve balls, but was dismayed that ROS tried desperately to undo what happened in TLJ and ignored all the seeds planted in TFA. But worse still is that, even on its own, ROS is not a good movie. Half assing Palpatine's return? The unexplained Sith stadium? Death Star battering rams in TLJ were okay because they were not planet crackers, just, well, really potent battering rams. But a fleet of Star Destroyers that each are as powerful as a Death Star? That's just bad fan fiction!

Re: Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+) -- news, rumors, etc.
 

The first two seasons of The Mandalorian were excellent and Andor was one of the best seasons of television in recent years. Where we are, right now, is because The Acolyte was very bad, in writing, acting and production. That’s it.

Re: Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+) -- news, rumors, etc.
 

The difference is that in 1980 -- discounting the Marvel Comics series -- there was just the first Star Wars movie, and in 1983 there were just the first Star Wars movie and Empire Strikes Back. The Star Wars universe was being developed as it went along. And, yeah, at that time Lucas qas also talking up a grand nine-film plan, but the story was always in a state of flux.

But jump ahead two decades to the Prequel Trilogy, and it's a pretty well-developed universe at that point. Tons of novels and comics that were treated as at least semi-canon (the name of the Imperial homeworld and the character Aayla Secura were established in the novels and comics before appearing onscreen).

By this time, the history and mechanics of the Star Wars universe had been established, and you really need to approach things with a battleplan and a bigger picture in mind.

Re: Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+) -- news, rumors, etc.
 

In my prior rant about what I consider my personal Star Wars "canon" I failed to mention that I don't consider the whole idiotic Luke and Leia siblings thing real. Since I discount the prequel and the new trilogy I don't have to worry with it.

I just imagine that Luke had some bad bantha stew when dining with a dying Yoda and he hallucinated the whole thing. This was the force helping Luke to accept that he lost Leia to Han during the events of him being on Dagobah/Han being frozen and Jabba's palace invasion in ROTJ.

The dad/Vader thing you could at least make a little sense out of.

Re: Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+) -- news, rumors, etc.
 

Well damn... I love when I read posts that echo my feelings exactly! Kylo stole the show until they totally ruined him in Last Jedi. They had their villain right there for the three films and it was Kylo. Wrecked. Then, by the time we get to TROS we get Palpatine magically surviving(utter horse excrement) and Rey-Lo turning the movie into a #$%$^ soap opera. Lando being there again was cool. Thats it.

I also find TFA OK and not a bad start to the series. However, why bother with that when the next two movies are painful to sit through? Hence, I dont bother. I own the discs as they were part of the 4K set I bought but they are drink coasters at this stage.

I hear ya on the OT issues and lack of a plan but thats entirely different than what happened with the sequels, as you pointed out. The sequels only plan was to enure that all three films barely feel connected at all. And, dont even geg me going on Rise of Skywalker.... I hate that movie with every midichlorian in my body. Everything you pointed out made me more and more angry, LOL.

Re: Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+) -- news, rumors, etc.
 

Star Wars needs to MOVE FORWARD IN TIME.

My eyes glaze over when they announce yet another prequel show, trying to provide backstory for characters and events that simply don't need it, while desperately trying to preserve sacred canon. It's all just tiresome and I find myself not giving a shit about any of these characters regardless of gender, sexual orientation or color.

Not a huge fan of Rey or the sequel trilogy by any means but I am most excited about that movie as it at least moves this fucking clusterfuck of a universe forward.

Re: Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+) -- news, rumors, etc.
 

I like prequel content, but I'd rather bring the Legends novels back into canon and just use that as source material for the screenplays. Also, the sequel trilogy should have been based on the 90s Thrawn trilogy, but with a slight adjustment to the OT actors ages (Ford, Hamill, Fisher) for the screenplay.

Re: Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+) -- news, rumors, etc.
 

I do hear ya - but there are some interesting characters that could be a great basis for a show. Of course, keep people like Leslie Headlamp away from it, LOL. Darth Plagueis, Darth Bane and even that Asajj(sp?) Ventress character have potential. But, I know.... then they ahve make sure things lineup with canon, existing lore, etc. etc. Then, the expectations would be high which hasnt helped Star Wars content in general.

Rey Palpatine is boring and I dont care about her at all. So, I do agree that something set WAY into the future with no Skywalker or Palpatine stuff would be possibly fresh. I dunno though, how much more Star Wars can we take?

Re: Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+) -- news, rumors, etc.
 

Give me an animated series based on the Marvel comic series starting with issue #7 and I would be in heaven.

I know it would never happen, but it is fun to dream. I think it would likely be pretty popular with Gen X'ers like myself. :D

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/8JcAA...Ze/s-l500.webp

They had this figure for 10 bucks at Ollies the other day and I just had to buy it. Couldn't help myself.

https://www.lulu-berlu.com/upload/im...050-grande.jpg

Sorry again for the derail. :lol:

We need a vintage Star Wars world discussion somewhere for old farts like me. ;)

Re: Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+) -- news, rumors, etc.
 

There's a reason everyone keeps making prequels. Star Wars. Harry Potter. Game of Thrones. Lord of the Rings. I'd even include Hunger Games in this, too.

This is epic storytelling. These stories take place in well-developed universes with their own sense of history, and the final entries provide definitive endings.

It's one of the reasons the Sequel Trilogy and Cursed Child were duds and failed to en energize fans. They just took the old and new characters and made them refight the same kind of battles, and it's just not satisfying. Even Tolkien attempted to write a sequel to Lord of the Rings but gave up after about ten pages. It takes a lot of work and skill to write a sequel to something that has a definitive ending that doesn't feel like nothing more than a fresh coat of paint.

When dealing with epic stories like this, the easiest way to move forward is to move backward. You fill in holes in the story, tell stories that were only mentioned in passing but laid the foundation for main epic, or even tell sidequels.

Whereas franchises like Doctor Who and Star Trek are designed to be open-ended, so they can do both prequels and continuations. Which isn't to say everything they do is going be good (it isn't), but their universes and flexible enough tell all kinds of stories.

Re: Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+) -- news, rumors, etc.
 

Mostly agree, you can still salvage the sequel trilogy - if you follow up with excellent films. When all of this started in 2012, they should have mapped out six films - the first trilogy both moving on from the previous characters and introducing new ones, with 10-12 being the next generation.

If I were in charge, I'd probably just wipe the slate clean and use Mangold's movie as a launching point for the next 20 years of Star Wars. He certainly doesn't want to do that, but at least make sure his film introduces enough characters and story to carry that forward. You then just focus all of your movies, streaming and animation shows into that time period. Everyone retires, and the next generation just chooses another time period. In reality we're probably left with another 10 years of this muddled mess...

Re: Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+) -- news, rumors, etc.
 

For a second, I thought that was Bucky O'Hare. :lol:

https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/dvdtalk...1ebdaca3b3.jpg

Re: Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+) -- news, rumors, etc.
 

I would add a tweak to that . . . Giving the projects to individuals is not the issue. Giving them to individuals with unique and individual ideas, but then (a) not fully vetting those ideas first, and then (b) not allowing them to execute on their unique ideas is the problem. (Read: A lack of cohesive and structured leadership with a plan.)

Re: Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+) -- news, rumors, etc.
 

I am more with Josh-Da-Man . . . There should be no problem with going backwards when the (unknown) history of the world is so rich and vibrant. The Knights of the Old Republic RPG games were fantastic. What should not be done is prequels for characters.

The Hunger Games prequel wasn't bad . . . until it made the same damned mistake the Star Wards movies made. They tried to turn Snoke . . . er . . . Snape . . . er . . . Snow from the most vile piece of shit to ever live into a sympathetic character. I do point a big finger at Kylo Ren and the Sequel Trilogy on that note, but it really began with Return of the Jedi and blossomed in the Prequel Trilogy. Don't do prequels for characters. Do prequels for the world.

Re: Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+) -- news, rumors, etc.
 

You do realize the so-called "Toxic Fandom/Fandom Menace" is less than 1% of 1% of whatever. A bunch of vocal dorks on the Internet preaching to other vocal dorks.

The vast majority of the four-quarter audience don't even know they exist. Ask your Tante Helen what she thought of Nerdrotic's latest rant.

The show failed because it didn't appeal to viewers. Period. The ratings were garbage. Plenty of that has to do with how Disney has run the Star Wars brand into the toilet, to the point where the constant onslaught of garbage product has poisoned the well.

People vastly overestimate the effect of whiny manbabies on the populace at large. Movies become blockbusters, TV shows become buzzworthy sensations because of quality and excited buzz, period.

Re: Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+) -- news, rumors, etc.
 

I love it when people get it. To be honest, Critical Drinker and Nerdrotic were 100% correct about this show, cant really argue that. :). But your point is valid here. This phenomenon of blaming "toxic" fans(and any other catch phrase name you wish to use) is so stupid but people still do it. They just cant accept that maybe...just maybe a show simply sucked which the Acolyte certainly did.

Also correct on how while Disney had had some good shows(Rogue One movie is terrific) and small bits of quality content, they've run the franchise into the ground. Its hard to care much anymore. They just throw unqualified writers/content teams at these shows, heave in a helping of modern audience fluid and then crank it out. Gee, wonder why its mostly crap? -rolleyes-