Noonan

Yep. Those moats didn't build/fill with wood spikes themselves. Plus, we have to assume it would have taken A LONG time to craft all of the weapons they had.

The dothraki scene is only foolish because it goes against everything we know about them. They're some of the best/smartest fighters in the world. Charging in like that was 100% against what we've learned about them. But it sure looked great on TV!

dhmac

Ozzy Man hilariously reviews this episode:

funkyryno

That Vox article about the defenders' strategy was spot on, and it doesn't really take a military genius to notice their decisions lacked even common sense. It was somewhat jarring as the show and books have always at least made attempts to remain realistic in regard to military matters.

Nefarious

I'm a bit torn. I think they were trying to convey that the wights were so plentiful and overwhelming that it was essentially like a horde of ants consuming a larger prey just in sheer numbers. Suffocating them. One could argue that they (based on Jon's comments) were fully aware of the degree to which they were outnumbered. I think there was a bit of hubris at play, too. The Dothraki had never encountered an opponent like this and perhaps there was a certain amount of overconfidence. You kind of see on on the faces of everyone after their weapons are lit. Everyone's like, "Hell yeah, we got this now!" That quickly turns to shock when the entire horde is almost immediately consumed.

I think all the shit is thrown on Dany for breaking with the plan but that excuses a couple of tactically ignorant moves by Jon, something I'd point out he's historically prone to (see Battle of the Bastards). When he and Dany were burning the shit out of the attacking line he's the one that broke off with his dragon and went north trying for the quick hero's ending. Later, despite him having seen the Night King literally raise the dead before, he proceeds to go straight towards him despite the piles of dead that are all around just waiting for resurrection.

So Dany may have broke from the original plan but Jon doubled down on it later.

DVD Josh

That's an interesting idea.

eXcentris

Yup, they built tons of weapons, dug trenches, etc. It's not like they had to do all this overnight. Plus, they have people (Jaime, Jon, Dany, the leaders of other Houses) who have experience commanding large armies and either taking or defending a castle. So as that article suggests, how could they have been so wrong with planning defenses for a siege: where to put the trenches, the catapults, the infantry, the light cavalry (Dothraki), the defense of the walls,... I'm not asking for a documentary on siege tactics but damn...

And the Dothraki were sacrificed in order to show the magnitude of the advancing threat and make you go "holy shit, they are all screwed!". It was pretty effective in achieving that, until you went "huhhh... that was dumb". I know this was probably a $$$ decision, but it could have been handled better.

Noonan

Consider Tyrion was there, I was expecting some original tactics. But I guess in this episode he had no brain and was just shoved in the crypt cause he isn't a strong fighter. I guess he had nothing else to bring to the table...

Giantrobo

I go back what this show has been known for since s1...FUCKING UP YOUR EXPECTATIONS. Characters Got plans? Good luck with that... Viewer thinks someone is gonna live/die. Here, hold my beer...

Giantrobo

I was fine with killing off the Dothraki like that. They are like Klingons to me. Goof ball violent characters with a corny sense of honor. BUH! BYE!! Thanks for helping the show illustrate just how fucked this battle was gonna be.

Raul3

Imagine if Pearl Harbor never happened, but told by way of a fictional movie.

First thing people would say is, "No way Japanese could pull off that sort of sneak attack. No way."

— The Farmer (@Jbug33) April 30, 2019

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There's a really funny Internet thread somewhere that essentially retells World War Two as if reviewing a season of TV and highlights how ridiculous and unlikely many of the actual events were. Talk about a deus ex Machina ending!

— Zack Stentz (@MuseZack) April 30, 2019

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I wrote that in context to some people having issue with the strategies and tactics used during The Battle of Winterfell

Sometimes strange things happen in war, planned and unplanned.

— The Farmer (@Jbug33) April 30, 2019

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eXcentris

"Soooo, well just do the usual "plan against siege" stuff yes?"
"Oh I dunno, I thought we'd go unplanned for this one."
"Unplanned sir?"
"Well yes, mix it up a little you know."
"But sir, we do have tried and true methods of defending against a siege!"
"Well you know what they say, strange things happen in war!"

(especially when you don't have the budget to pull it off)

Lastblade

I put the odds of GRRM finishing the books the same as Jets and Giants winning the Super Bowl in the same year.

jfoobar

The artist understates the size of the undead horde, but the point is still valid.

The Dothraki still could have been effectively wiped out. Winterfell still could have been overwhelmed. All of the major plot points could have been achieved in very dramatic fashion without all the laughable contrivances. In fact, doing things right, to include proper troop and trebuchet placement, proper use of the light cavalry, stouter perimeter defenses, realistic hand to hand scenarios within the castle walls, and so on and still having the battle end up in a similar place due to the overwhelming numbers of wights (i.e., still needing Air Arya to save the day) would have increased the drama substantially. Bad writing, plain and simple.

Eric F

The 4k UHD release of the complete set will most likely be in Dolby Vision so I can see it being much improved.

I'll probably wait for the price to come down a bit before I buy.

Tom Banjo

Aphex Twin

Yes. Thanks!

JTH182

I felt the Night King and his army should have been saved for the end of the series, but if this was the route they were going to go then I have one big complaint:

The White Walker generals did NOTHING! It would have been cool to have a scene with all our remaining heroes fighting the generals while Jon was fighting the NK. The heroes and Jon could have been getting their asses kicked (except for maybe a couple generals getting iced) and THEN have Arya do her thing to save the day. To me that would have been so much cooler.

Unclejosh

I watched this episode in an unlit room from a 5GB 1080p mkv file (I have HBOGO but no internet where this tv is at the moment) on an OLED TV and while dark with some minor compression and banding issues there was never really a moment where I couldn't see anything. Listening to Stern today makes me wonder what he is watching on. Most likely a LCD in a fully lit room with some crappy cable feed. He was not happy. I then tried to watch it on my LCD and it was much more difficult to see.

Could this be the equivalent to CD mastering where audiophiles want stuff mastered with huge dynamics so when done that way, people who listen to the recording in car stereos, boom boxes, streaming, mp3, etc complain that it is too quiet and they can't hear it? Do they "master" these shows on such high end properly calibrated equipment (most likely in 4K then down-converted) that what looks ok to them, looks like crap once it is broadcast over cable or streamed on lower end systems? I don't know enough about the technical aspects of video production but seems weird that some people had zero to little issues and others called it unwatchable.

coli

I may have missed it in this thread, as I apologize if this was talked about. Is HBO in 4K? I don't have a 4K TV so I don't know what channels are, but I wonder if this type of episode was made for 4K?

JTH182

I don't think HBO broadcasts anything in 4k or on demand. You have to wait for the UHD Blu-ray.

T-bone22

I'm on an OLED as well, but I watched it on the HBO Amazon channel, as I was under the impression that the bitrate is far better on Amazon vs. Go/Now.

The episode was an absolute mess... macroblocking, flashing, banding. It looked like an Xvid video from early 2000's. I was curious if any of the rips might be somewhat better... maybe it's worth a shot.

Josh-da-man

Josh-da-man

Bill Needle

That reminds me of one of my confusions about the Game of Thrones universe: Nothing has changed for thousands of years; they are still fighting with basically the same pointy sticks and using the same technology they were eons ago. A scorpion (giant crossbow) was a stunning revelation.

They have been stuck in medieval times for more than 10,000 years. In one tenth of that time in the real world we were walking on the moon.

They need to fire all their Maesters because they are just hammering checks and not doing squat.

Bill Needle

Or Bran could have taken a moment to say "Hey, maybe hold off on the suicide charge for about 30 more seconds."