Go Back  DVD Talk Forum > Entertainment Discussions > TV Talk
Reload this Page >

Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

TV Talk Talk about Shows on TV

Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

Old 06-12-18, 06:47 AM
  #1  
Moderator
Thread Starter
 
dex14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 26,896
Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18



Chapter 19

210 6/12/2018 10 PM ET/PT

In which David fights the future. Written by Noah Hawley; directed by Keith Gordon

Season finale. It was recently renewed for a third season.
dex14 is offline  
Old 06-12-18, 06:16 PM
  #2  
DVD Talk Special Edition
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,412
Re: Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

Right on, let's do this. Can't wait.

EDIT after watching it. FUCK YEA>

Last edited by hdtv00; 06-12-18 at 11:27 PM.
hdtv00 is offline  
Old 06-13-18, 01:29 AM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: MS
Posts: 804
Re: Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

they wanted the bad man....they get the bad man?
phantom_azazel is offline  
Old 06-13-18, 01:14 PM
  #4  
DVD Talk Gold Edition
 
Join Date: May 1999
Location: IL
Posts: 2,718
Re: Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

This season was a bit too style over substance for me and I often found myself dozing off during episodes. That being said, if next season is David and Lenny going all Bonnie and Clyde then I'm in. And Oliver vaguely remembering Kerry as that girl who kicks people was hilarious.
mugwump is offline  
Old 06-13-18, 03:26 PM
  #5  
DVD Talk God
 
Deftones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Arizona
Posts: 74,472
Re: Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

Interesting. Full on villain mode now.
Deftones is online now  
Old 06-13-18, 03:31 PM
  #6  
DVD Talk Godfather
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: City of the lakers.. riots.. and drug dealing cops.. los(t) Angel(e)s. ca.
Posts: 54,199
Re: Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

Oh man, that was fantastic. I loved it. bring more on
Jackskeleton is offline  
Old 06-13-18, 11:58 PM
  #7  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,242
Re: Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

Originally Posted by mugwump View Post
This season was a bit too style over substance for me and I often found myself dozing off during episodes. That being said, if next season is David and Lenny going all Bonnie and Clyde then I'm in. And Oliver vaguely remembering Kerry as that girl who kicks people was hilarious.

Yeah I agree, the whole season was sort of this psychedelic self indulgent artsy mess, and 10 minutes or so into this episode I was ready to not only bail on the episode but the entire show. But the last 50 minutes or so quite brilliantly brought all those psychedelic threads together into a VERY satisfy and thought provoking whole. One of my favorite TV episodes this year. Interestingly, the ending makes you go back and look at the multiple life possibility episode and realize in that in all of those incarnations, he was never really a GOOD person in any of them, but dangerous and unpredictable.

Having said all of that, I do hope for an actual plot next year and David could be a terrific and devastating villain.
johnnysd is offline  
Old 06-14-18, 07:44 AM
  #8  
DVD Talk Legend
 
hdnmickey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Cygnus
Posts: 12,524
Re: Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

Originally Posted by Jackskeleton View Post
Oh man, that was fantastic. I loved it. bring more on
ITA. Feel the same way about the whole season. As I expected the finale put the other "WTF episodes into their proper perspective. I thought the guy that plays David did a really good job playing the three versions and including a convincing job of playing both the confused hero and the pure villain. Really looking forward to next season.
hdnmickey is offline  
Old 06-14-18, 08:59 AM
  #9  
DVD Talk Reviewer
 
Pointyskull's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Formerly known as "12thmonkey"/Frankfort, IL
Posts: 7,551
Re: Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

This was a wonderful trip - and such a different tone from the first season.
I consider this one of those "unique-imaginative-well-done-shows-that-no-one-I-know-ever-heard-of-let-alone-watches"

I...want...more!
Pointyskull is offline  
Old 06-14-18, 03:49 PM
  #10  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Tom Banjo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Auburn, AL
Posts: 3,489
Re: Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

Here’s a cool tidbit, I had captions on during this and the other Davids had altered names. One was Divad, the other DVD.
Tom Banjo is offline  
Old 06-14-18, 10:07 PM
  #11  
DVD Talk Legend
 
spainlinx0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: NJ
Posts: 14,660
Re: Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

Originally Posted by johnnysd View Post
Yeah I agree, the whole season was sort of this psychedelic self indulgent artsy mess, and 10 minutes or so into this episode I was ready to not only bail on the episode but the entire show. But the last 50 minutes or so quite brilliantly brought all those psychedelic threads together into a VERY satisfy and thought provoking whole. One of my favorite TV episodes this year. Interestingly, the ending makes you go back and look at the multiple life possibility episode and realize in that in all of those incarnations, he was never really a GOOD person in any of them, but dangerous and unpredictable.

Having said all of that, I do hope for an actual plot next year and David could be a terrific and devastating villain.
Wasn't there one reality where he was married with kids and happy, and some speculated it is the one reality that the shadow king never found him?

I think the common denominator is that the shadow king, intentionally or not, broke him in all those realities.
spainlinx0 is offline  
Old 06-15-18, 08:24 AM
  #12  
DVD Talk Hall of Fame
 
Osiris3657's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 8,246
Re: Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

I kinda like and am intrigued where they are going with this. Has a show ever turned the good guy lead into a bad guy before?
Osiris3657 is offline  
Old 06-15-18, 08:35 AM
  #13  
Moderator
Thread Starter
 
dex14's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 26,896
Re: Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

Originally Posted by Osiris3657 View Post
I kinda like and am intrigued where they are going with this. Has a show ever turned the good guy lead into a bad guy before?
Breaking Bad.
dex14 is offline  
Old 06-15-18, 11:41 PM
  #14  
DVD Talk Platinum Edition
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,242
Re: Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

Originally Posted by dex14 View Post
Breaking Bad.
And it's follow up, Better Call Saul.

I also think in its own way, House as well.
johnnysd is offline  
Old 06-17-18, 09:16 AM
  #15  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: NYC
Posts: 17,018
Re: Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

Some thoughts A short essay on the finale...

It's a bit too facile to say that David is or isn't a good person. He's complicated, like real people. And like most people, he sees himself as fundamentally a good person. Any dissonance he experiences between the reality of his actions and his self-image is the same one that any non-sociopath experiences when they do something unethical. Farouk tortured David nearly his entire life, then killed his sister—of course he would want revenge for that. It's unhealthy, but understandable.

David sees Sydney as the totem that helps him stay sane. The love he has for her is selfish. It's about how she makes him feel. A lot of people are like that (recent case in point: Chris Hardwick). Control is the grease for an unhealthy relationship built on selfishness, usually in the form of manipulation. The root is insecurity and fear of loss. When the relationship inevitably starts to falter, the control ramps up, as we saw here. Eventually the point of no return is reached, like when he caused her to forget her suspicions and had sex with her. Someone can come back from this (on a personal level), but it requires self-aware introspection, of which David's in short supply...

In some ways, David is right about needing Sydney. He looks to others for direction about who he is. When they believe he's good, he's good. When they believe he might go rogue, he goes rogue. His self-image is fragile, and this entire season he's been under suspicion. But he also thrives on power and adulation. They're right to be scared of him. But he also left without hurting any of them. He may not always be the good person, but he wants to be.

I read an article recently about a 19-year-old Iraq veteran who robbed a bank in Tacoma with his commanding officer and three other veterans using machine guns. The teenager was given an extraordinarily light sentence because he claimed the commanding officer had indoctrinated him to the point that he believed it was a training mission. Only later did he admit to himself and his family that he knew what he was doing. For the longest time he had to keep the lie going and couldn't even really admit it to himself. Once he finally came clean, he was finally able to look at the events and his role in them starkly and come away powerfully changed for the better. I'd like to see David have a realization like this later in season three.

Now, all of this can be true while at the same time Farouk is also an evil psychopath who's manipulating everyone to get his desired outcome. Like he said (as Melanie): "It's the story, not the facts." Of course he stoked their fears so that they handle the David situation in the worst way possible. Remember the "moral panic" narration earlier in the series? "Submit to therapy or die!" while your torturer/sister's killer stands free is probably not the most productive intervention. I think Farouk will need to die by the end of the series—he's just too powerful and cunning to live.

Last edited by Breakfast with Girls; 06-17-18 at 09:43 AM.
Breakfast with Girls is offline  
Old 06-17-18, 09:56 AM
  #16  
DVD Talk Legend
 
hdnmickey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Cygnus
Posts: 12,524
Re: Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

Some of David's personalities are good, some are not.
hdnmickey is offline  
Old 06-17-18, 02:14 PM
  #17  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 17,534
Re: Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
Some of David's personalities are good, some are not.
I think you're referring to the comic book character here, not the show. The show hasn't really gone into David having multiple personalities yet, except the Shadow King "hitchhiking" in his head all those years.

The multiple Davids so far seem more like "aspects" of his personality than distinct personalities themselves. I believe last season while David was in the classroom figuring out things, the second, "British" David in those scenes described himself as the rational part of David's mind, not as a distinct personality. In this episode, the two other Davids seemed more like the Angel/Devil on his shoulders, although given their advice they may both be devils.

Now, Farouk has been shown to have actually "absorbed" another personality, with Lenny. This season shows Farouk wasn't just using her face as a mask, but her whole personality existed in his mind.
Jay G. is offline  
Old 06-17-18, 02:25 PM
  #18  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 17,534
Re: Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

Originally Posted by Breakfast with Girls View Post
Now, all of this can be true while at the same time Farouk is also an evil psychopath who's manipulating everyone to get his desired outcome...
One thing I didn't like about the final was Farouk being completely unrestrained during the "intervention". Just because David was guilty of something doesn't mean Farouk is innocent. He killed a lot of Division 3 people just this season, separate from David. I'm not sure how to explain it aside from Farouk still manipulating people.

Farouk, as Melanie, clearly manipulated Sydney into seeing David one particular way. While I don't doubt David could turn evil, and maybe did in the original timeline where he killed Farouk, that doesn't mean he's not beyond saving now. Where David went wrong was, after Sydney's confrontation with David was defused by Lenny stopping the bullet, he decided to erase Sydney's memories to just ignore the ugly side of him that was revealed, instead of addressing it.

If "I'm a good person and I deserve love" is a delusion, it's a delusion nearly all of us share. We all view ourselves as, fundamentally, good people. Even Farouk tries to justify himself to David and others this season, painting Professor X as the agressor, his hiding in David's mind as a simple act of survival, not malice. He even suggests he tried to get David to love him during his occupation.

It'll be interesting to see where the next season goes.
Jay G. is offline  
Old 06-17-18, 06:49 PM
  #19  
DVD Talk Limited Edition
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Under a dead Ohio sky
Posts: 5,820
Re: Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

I enjoyed the finale. Season as a whole was a bit uneven by I enjoyed it.

David probably erased Sid's memory as he assumed that she shot him under Farouk's influence. Which is basically true. She was convinced by Melanie that David was the real threat and Melanie was already under Farouk/Oliver's control.



Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
One thing I didn't like about the final was Farouk being completely unrestrained during the "intervention". Just because David was guilty of something doesn't mean Farouk is innocent. He killed a lot of Division 3 people just this season, separate from David. I'm not sure how to explain it aside from Farouk still manipulating people.
I think Farouk was a projection. Since his face was lacking any of the damage that David had inflicted on him. But that begs the question is he now somewhere mentally unrestrained?
Thrush is offline  
Old 06-18-18, 04:07 AM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: MS
Posts: 804
Re: Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

aside from some of the padding, the biggest problem i had with this season was that sydney flipped so hard and fast on david
phantom_azazel is offline  
Old 06-18-18, 09:18 AM
  #21  
DVD Talk Legend
 
hdnmickey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Cygnus
Posts: 12,524
Re: Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
I think you're referring to the comic book character here, not the show.
Nope...

The multiple Davids so far seem more like "aspects" of his personality than distinct personalities themselves. I believe last season while David was in the classroom figuring out things, the second, "British" David in those scenes described himself as the rational part of David's mind, not as a distinct personality. In this episode, the two other Davids seemed more like the Angel/Devil on his shoulders, although given their advice they may both be devils.
Not sure why anybody wouldn't take those scenes, and others tossed throughout S1 and S2, as setting up his multiple personalities. Personally I thought they are doing a far better job of it than others shows have when doing the same thing.
hdnmickey is offline  
Old 06-18-18, 09:26 AM
  #22  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 17,534
Re: Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

Originally Posted by hdnmickey View Post
Not sure why anybody wouldn't take those scenes, and others tossed throughout S1 and S2, as setting up his multiple personalities....
from Season 1 Episode 7:
He tricked us into giving up control.
Tricked you.
What? Yeah, I-I got that part, man.
But if you're not the monster, then I'm you.
Your rational mind.
You're having a breakdown a stress response.
Your power is kicking in to save you.
It created me.
You did.
Wha ah And you're British? Like I said, I'm your rational mind.
- And I created you? - Yes.
To help you find a way out of here, before this thing takes control of our body forever.
Okay.
https://www.springfieldspringfield.c...episode=s01e07

I took that to mean that the other "David" in this scene was just a manifestation of his rational mind, not a distinct personality. So that's how I took the other "Davids" in this episode as well, aspects of his personality, but not distinct personalities.
Jay G. is offline  
Old 06-18-18, 09:30 AM
  #23  
DVD Talk Legend
 
hdnmickey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Cygnus
Posts: 12,524
Re: Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
I took that to mean that the other "David" in this scene was just a manifestation of his rational mind, not a distinct personality. So that's how I took the other "Davids" in this episode as well, aspects of his personality, but not distinct personalities.
We'll have to agree to disagree and see where they take it in S3. I suspect we'll see them be more literal with the multiples now that one of the worst has taken over.
hdnmickey is offline  
Old 06-18-18, 09:52 AM
  #24  
DVD Talk Legend
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 17,534
Re: Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

A good interview with Noah Hawley about the finale:
http://ew.com/tv/2018/06/12/legion-s...ley-interview/

There's stuff about Syd, the extra episode, Farouk at the end, etc. But this bit about the multiple personalities:
The David we see at the very end is much closer to the Legion we know in the comics with all the split personalities. Since you’re now two full seasons into this story, has your relationship to the comic books changed at all, in terms of what you do and do not include from the page?

Yeah. The character in the comics, there was a complexity to his origin story and the powers and the way that they work that seemed a hard ask of the audience to say, well, you have these multiple personalities and each one has its own powers. We’re seeing the birth of this character that we may know from the comics, and so the idea that organically we got to a place [where] we had a moment last year where a rational British version of David popped out to help him out in a scenario, and this year we end up with three Davids all arguing different points of view. That may increase in season 3, and of course, if so, creating different versions with different voices. So I want to see if I can put him through phases, I suppose.
The bit about putting David "through phases," suggests to me that, so far, we haven't seen distinct personalities, and I don't think a separate personality "took over" David at the end of the finale.

He's not yet the "100s of personalities each controlling a specific power" Legion from the comics. They could get there in Season 3, but they're not there yet.
Jay G. is offline  
Old 06-18-18, 10:14 AM
  #25  
DVD Talk Legend
 
hdnmickey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Cygnus
Posts: 12,524
Re: Legion (S2E11) -- Season Finale -- "Chapter 19" -- 6/12/18

Originally Posted by Jay G. View Post
The bit about putting David "through phases," suggests to me that, so far, we haven't seen distinct personalities, and I don't think a separate personality "took over" David at the end of the finale.
Suggests to you... It's always fun to see how two people can read the same paragraph and get two totally different things out of it.
hdnmickey is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Archive Advertising Cookie Policy Privacy Statement Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.