DJariya

Episode 20 of 23

Jackskeleton

Honestly, I don't give a shit anymore. That was pretty expected and predictable. Yaaaawwn.

robin2099

I don't mind the reveal. I'm still interested in seeing where they take it this season.

Deftones

Interesting. Wonder that happens that makes him feel that Iris needs to die.

jwb0323

Wtf? How could he have lived it if it's just now happening and what turned him bad is iris being killed but he's the one who killed her? Chicken and egg scenario?

Hokeyboy

Time is never linear. Stop thinking about it in terms of causality chains.

Draven

Evil Barry is the easy reveal but OK. Let's see what they do with it.

Koby

This whole season has been about Barry's screw ups.

He opts to change the past and ends up creating Flash Point.

Tries to correct that, but alters various stuff in the process, even on Arrow.

Then in the future, 4 years after Iris had been killed, he manages to trap Savitar. Afterwards he opts to abandon everyone he knows and goes into sulk mode.

Then present time Wally lets Evil Barry (Savitar) out, and Savitar ends up killing Iris, which is what resulted in the creation of Savitar to begin with. Which kind of seems off, because basically it means that Savitar caused the birth of Savitar, but if that was the case, how did Savitar exist to begin with if Iris hadn't died by his hand? Alright, I guess if you look at time in a different prospective, maybe it works on the basis that time isn't linear at all. And apparently the only reason Savitar exists and Iris dies is because of Flash Point to start with because in the original timeline she was alive and well in the future as the Headliner of the newspaper article Gideon had on display.

So it still revolves around a long list of things Barry has done wrong since mucking around with the timeline. \o/

hdnmickey

It was fun reading all the theories that had Savitar being somebody else, but there was many scenes in the preceding weeks (many captured int hat quick montage) that made it clear it was a Barry all along. There were even a couple new ones early on in this episode.

Despite the obvious, I thought it was still an enjoyable ride. My only nitpick I how long they let the Frozone scene play on (she's cold, but not at all fast) and the choral stuff that starts up in the soundtrack to make Savitar out to be a god. Despite being a overused cliche, it's been really poorly done on this series.

jwb0323

So, at some point in the future, "original" timeline, Barry goes bad, then starts thinking he needs to mess with his past self for some reason to mold him into a more powerful, evil bad ass. I think savitar is getting these new memories as they happen in the present. But i don't think iris dying by savitar is the original way it happened because then that wouldn't make sense linearly. I think current timeline Barry without dying by savitar grows old and somehow future Barry gets evil because of bad shit so he goes back in time to make Barry go bad earlier by killing iris and then everything happening currently becomes a new memory because as the present changes that ripples into the future Barry.

So the question becomes, what the hell happened to Barry so bad to make him want to go back and kill iris to begin with?

Giantrobo

Had the reveal spoiled for me on YouTube because some asshole put the reveal in the video title. Oh well...

Anyway, good seeing Anne Dudek.

DJariya

The big reveal...."Meh" I am getting a little tired of seeing all these doppelgangers or future personas of these characters.

I am curious though what transpired in the future to turn Barry into this dark character that he would want to kill Iris in 2017.

Cutthroat Bitch looked good. Nice to see her again after some time.

dex14

For sure. I really liked her in this role.

PhantomStranger

I was hoping for a different reveal than Future Barry being Savitar. Time-travel fiction is always slippery and this show usually doesn't have a good grasp on it.

Anne Dudek playing Tracey continues her personal transformation to extend her acting career. She's probably dropped 40 pounds in the past five years.

Red Dog

I'm feeling the same way - getting old and tiresome.

Flatlander

I don't mind this aspect too much of the show but getting there with shows like Legends. I am just tired of the story line that someone from the team breaks up or blows off someone because they are trying to protect that person. I don't think that has ever worked. It is almost like once you do that it is a guarantee that they get killed or kidnapped. Keep everyone safe and sleep with everyone, that way the big bad will not know who you give a damn about.

Palaver

So, is Savitor one of the time remnants that Barry says he creates in the future that survives?

I'm still not sure how a time remnant is created. Does Barry travel to the past and take a version of himself with the expectation of returning them later?

Jackskeleton

I guess time remnants could be the flashes of those time lines? I don't know. it's time travel. Don't over think it.


Looking forward to next few episodes of Barry trying to talk to himself out of turning evil. The whole "I know all this because I've lived it" doesn't make any sense though given how they use time travel. It would create remnants that would splinter off to different time lines.. so future barry, out of the time stream, wouldn't know the changes yet. Buuuuut again, don't over think it, it's stupid writers faults.

next season can we just get a rogue gallery big bad for the season?

PhantomStranger

Savitar is likely from a future timeline that doesn't exist anymore.

I don't mind the Savitar reveal but it's not something that needed all this build-up. It would have been better to surprise viewers with it back in February or March.

Lifepawn

I discounted Savitar being the Flash because it seemed incredibly stupid. In hindsight I guess that should have been what tipped me off. I did like Attempted-Murderer Frost cruising around the city.

Jackskeleton

but that there is the problem. If he's from a future timeline that doesn't exist anymore.. how the hell is this "he's one step ahead of you because to him all this is history he lived through" nonsense.

I'm not one to be a stickler of time travel rules, but when Barry went back in time and then come back to the present after fucking it up, he didn't suddenly know all of the changes that happened immediately. The established rule is if you're out of the time line for it, then it takes a while to set itself in, right? So Savitar in the present wouldn't know Barry's and the gang's every move because this new time line isn't set yet.

slop101

I loved the first season, 2nd season was fine, but this season is losing me, even though it's more "super-hero-y" than ever.

Eric F

How can it not exist anymore if it never happened?

I know what you mean tho, all this time traveling shit, alternate timelines/parallel worlds stuff is starting to give me a headache.

Michael Corvin

Interesting reveal. Seems obvious looking back, but I'm cool with it. This season has been pretty fun. Like everyone else, the key is whether or not the writers have a plausible reason for Future Barry/Savitar wanting to kill Iris.

I still think that this season will end with Barry somehow resetting Flashpoint back to last season's original timeline. Of course with that route we lose Kid Flash, Killer Frost, Gypsy, HR, and pretty much anything to do with this season.

Killer Frost looked amazing in that outfit... and even cooler (ha!) doing her best Frozone impression around the city.

Also badass was Barry snapping to ignite the blowtorch in Tracey's lab.

Xiroteus

Iceman did it first!