rw2516

The impact on the viewer would definitely have been greater in the S6 finale. You begin watching the episode like any other, no idea what's coming, then Bam!, Glenn gets his head caved in.

JZ1276

Did u miss the episode where Negan's crew tried robbing Daryl, Abe and Sasha last season? Daryl used the RPG on them and took them out. So technically, Negan started the war.

TGM

SM motherfucking H. people comparing this to the REAL event of feeding Catholics to the Lions. People whining and bitching about the violence and gore in a show about the zombie fucking apocalypse. Hypocrites up in arms because FINALLY a beloved character gets killed off on the show... the same people who had zero qualms about watching hundreds of gory zombie deaths, or deaths of women, or that little girl at the hands of Carol, or other children torn apart by the undead, or dozens of other lesser characters. Fucking hypocrites. Go... go watch that inane new Kevin James comedy and drool into your Walmart mac and cheese.

hdnmickey

The discussion was about people hate watching, and having already made up their mind about the show. We'll just have to agree to disagree on that being anything but thread crapping.

Giantrobo

Agree 100%

After the show even my wife was doubtful Rick and Gang would ever be able to fight Negan. She was so upset. The drawn out drama and fucked up mind games Negan was playing worked big time.

DthRdrX

"Always Accountable" was the first known appearance of Negan's group in the forest, though you are correct that the Survivor's fired first as they were driving by.

Coral

Ah, the lame old "it's a show about zombies" defence.

Apparently physics, biology, chemistry and logic get thrown out the window because it's a show about zombies. Can't wait to see Rick get out of this mess by growing wings and then burning all the baddies with dragon-fire - ya know... since it's a show about zombies, anything goes.

stingermck

It's OK to have problems with a form of media and still be a fan. It's called critique and criticism.

Or



DVDTalk has the torches out if you didnt love this episode.

hdnmickey

Critique and criticism typically has more behind it than "this show sucks" and the other hate watching comments in this forum and elsewhere. Most fans of TWD and other highly successful shows have criticized one part or another over the years.

fumanstan

Biology does kind of get thrown out the window if you believe zombies exist, no? That said, while I get the point you were trying to make, but i'll take the visuals over realism for this kind of show so it's kind of an odd complaint to me.

Seems pretty evenly split between people liking versus not liking the episode to me. That said, it's funny since in the DC threads you're one of the people that seems to complain about the critique and criticism against those movies

stingermck

Cause I'm a DC fanboy.

fumanstan

Well as long as you have an excuse for your hypocrisy

stingermck

My comments were really geared towards TGM and others who have freaked out over people who said this episode was too much, or have criticism.

"Zombie this, apocalypse that, true fans, etc etc"

Anyway, carry on.

VinVega

I hope it's not too off topic, but since we brought it up earlier, the idea of threadcrapping if you have a negative comment...

First of all, I don't post here too much, so if I'm out of touch with the culture of the TV sub forum, I'm sorry and I defer to the regular mods here to correct me if I'm wrong.

I feel like the thread would be really boring if the only comments were positive about the episode. I think we should be able to call a spade a spade if someone is only posting negative things in this thread to try to get a reaction out of the fans. I think we all can agree it's trolling. At the same time, if someone wants to point out an axe that should have landed right beneath someone hanging from a walker on a noose somehow lands 25 feet away just so a character can slice up some more zombies, I mean that's a legit beef. Or if a character about to die from pregnancy complications, just has a small limp in the next episode, I gotta say, that's fair. I mean, the show does dumb things. Some of us look past it, other people it bugs the shit out of and makes them not want to watch. I mean we can run through all the hypotheticals and I'm not meaning this post to be the official guideline as to what's a legit criticism and what's a threadcrap. My only point is we should be seeing some positive and some negative feedback. It's what a discussion board is all about. Just do it respectfully, to your other posters at the very least. My 2 cents as a poster here.

Michael Corvin

a few things:
1. As stated previously; there is a massive difference in mindset between seeing a lifeless zombie get pulverized and a living breathing character.

2. None of the deaths you mention were gratuitous. This episode was clearly that and definitely ventured into torture porn realm.

3. I don't think anyone here is up in arms about losing a 'beloved character.' That's the nature of the show, they were becoming quite immortal.

I like the show but I'm torn on the premier. The director could have accomplished the same task (demoralizing Rick & Co and the audience) without showing so much. I'm not against what they showed, but it wasn't needed.

DJariya

Just my opinion:

Saying stuff like

I'm so glad I dropped the show last year! : Threap Crap

I have no vested interest in this weekly and I'm going to let this build up as DVR fodder and then watch the show as background noise: Threap Crap (who the hell cares and adds nothing to this thread) Does anyone care if you want to waste electricity and DVR space for a show you don't have a vested interest in?)

I dropped the show 3 years ago....and then into some rambling diatribe: Threap crap. No one cares in this thread particularly if you dropped the show 3 years ago.

I don't watch this anymore...blah blah blah because it started becoming boring and redundant after season xx......absolutely 100% threap crap. You obviously didn't watch this episode, so why are you wasting your time?

It's fine to criticize, but saying stuff that adds nothing to season 7, episode 1 is IMO a thread crap.

I do think it's interesting that this particular episode has brought about a lot of heated opinions. It's made some entertaining reading even if you don't agree with everything that's been said.

fumanstan

TGM is obviously overboard in his reaction and attacking others, but to throw my two cents in, I think that the violence eliciting such a crazy and split reaction was what the current showrunners and effects guys wanted the viewers to have - so I'm not sure I entirely agree that it wasn't needed because it certainly changes the way viewers feel after the episode from seeing it directly versus having it happen off screen. I know its addressed on your first point, but honestly most of the zombie deaths are just as gratuitous and unnecessary too. We don't need to see the head ripping apart from the zombie that Rick jumps on to, but we see that in detail too.

I feel like seeing the brutality adds something in this show, as it does in something like Game of Thrones too. It's supposed to make people feel uncomfortable and uneasy. It's something you can probably argue with sexual content in addition to violence too. I bet AMC and the folks working on the show love the reaction from the internet right now.

hdnmickey

No. you're not alone.

iTA. I don't think the episode comes off nearly as real if they don't show what they do. And that goes for the zombie on the noose as well. There are plenty of other options for people if they don't want shows or movies to portray this stuff as it really would happen and look as it happens. Frankly as much as I enjoy then otherwise, movies like the LOTR trilogy really bother me with their comparatively squeaky clean battles.

DthRdrX

The video of Negan killing Maggie instead of Glenn was leaked onto Youtube. I wonder if we will eventually get to see all the death scenes they filmed.

Mordred

Didn't realize this had premiered Sunday, and found out about it yesterday at work. Avoided spoilers completely. Was super busy last night, but put it on right before bed just to find out who the fuck got killed so it wouldn't be spoiled. Of course it took 15 minutes for the reveal. Saw Abraham get it, it was 2:30AM at that point, so I turned it off. Go to work and hear somebody joking about "Bring back Glenn" and somebody else yelling "spoilers!" just in case I missed the reference. Probably would have been a lot more shocking.

I really like JDM and he's a lot of fun as Negan, but the character doesn't seem to make any sense. The whole RV interlude was dumb. Why would he keep Rick alive? Why would he go to great lengths to put Rick in mortal danger only to unbelievably swoop in at the last second? Why doesn't he know what a hatchet is? Why does he stop Rick from cutting off Carl's arm? Why is Maggie no longer near-death after watching her husband beat to death?

The whole Rick stuff was almost James Bond-ian in Negan's efforts to keep Rick alive to (presumably) come back and kill him later.

The episode was a mess, but the acting was solid and the gore was top notch. I don't mind the relentlessly downbeat feel (I kinda like that in my entertainment) but it needs to have more of a point to it.

creekdipper

I can understand the wildly-swinging extremes ranging from "They didn't go far enough with the gore" to "I'm never watching again." Both are valid expressions of individual opinions.

It's also understandable that people would have immediate visceral reactions that they express now in order to vent & then will change later. The ones upset to the point that they say they're dropping the show may indeed come back next week or soon thereafter, just as I see people do in other threads who claim they're giving up on a show only to post comments later.

Or they may truly be so upset that they never come back. Regardless, they have a right to their opinion just as much as those who loved it.

Loved it or hated it, most should understand the difference between this episode and others. In most of the other episodes, the deaths were brief even when extremely graphic, and there was usually some catharsis (others escaped; the villain "got theirs," etc. Or it was "zombie violence" (look at the movie ratings and see how they characterize specific violent acts as an example).

This was an extended episode in which the protagonists were tortured both physically and psychologically for over an hour. And not one, but two beloved characters were beaten to a pulp (literally) while the others were forced to watch a few feet away...close enough to be splattered with blood. It's why films such as "I Spit on Your Grave," "Last House on the Left," and others were so notorious in their day, along with others showing extreme torture & humiliation of characters. For some, it's just too much. People had the same reaction to the drawn-out torture of Theon by Ramsey Bolton (or the much-briefer, off-screen rape of Sansa). It's a visceral reaction to characters they love (and Theon/Reek was hated by many).

I've heard this compared to the "murder trough" scene or Carol's "mercy killing," but those were brief in comparison or off-screen. And comparing "zombie violence" (fantasy) to something that actually happens in real life (ISIS sawing off heads of bound victims) is, IMO, apples & oranges. The former may be "gross" but still "safe;" the latter is disturbing because we know that it actually happens. And even most dedicated horror fans recoil from the real thing, or are bothered by the sight of helpless people being terrorized and brutalized sadistically. At least the zombies eat what they kill.

I'd say that the folks who are disturbed should be cut some slack before being accused of thread-crapping. If they just pop in every season to say how much they hate the show, that's different. But their immediate reaction to this one ought to be given some time to go through the stages of tv grieving (they're at the "angry/denial/refuse to accept" stages now).

It was effective storytelling judging by the extreme reactions, and people have different tolerance levels (I knew a science teacher who refused to watch any movie that didn't have a happy ending). And some people who can watch human deaths can't watch if an animal is abused...as those ASPCA ads prove.

Just my nickel.



**********
Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2

creekdipper

"No, Mr. Bond, I expect you to dieee." ~ Auric Goldfinger


If you like nihilistic, bleak films, Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer starring TWD's own Michael Rooker is right up your alley.

Now that Glen is gone, who is going to represent for Asians? And have they featured a Native American yet?



*********
The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am the foremost. I Timothy 1:15

TGM

Glenn's death was graphic, but it was a nearly shot for shot remake of the comic book, including eye pop. This event was a seminal moment in the comic, and clearly was a nod to the fans of the books. The show runners haven't ventured into torture porn... they were simply being honest to the source material (for once).

the young black guy... the Everybody Loves Chris guy... who died in the revolving door... his death was way more graphic... but nobody gave a shit because he wasn't Glenn (or an OG) and there was zero emotional investment with that character.

rw2516

Watching the World Series last night it occurred to me how this episode made me feel.

Your team is in the World Series. Every time it seems like they're going to lose they pull off a win in the ninth inning. Then they lose in the bottom of the ninth of game 7.

EddieMoney

Signature material here!