Raul3

Not sure if I get "We are Spartacus" vibe from the episode. The lady that was smoking said "We are Negan" laughing, kind of ironically. Not really proud.

We will see.

Osiris3657

Cellar Door

Eric F

I don't think we've seen the "real" Neagan yet. Remember, they said they're all Neagan, so it wouldn't surprise me they all identify themselves as him when asked.

candyrocket786

Based on that footage.... I bet

hdnmickey

This. It's really gotten out of hand lately. Just because some people can't seem to survive without reading ahead in the story, or following casting news, doesn't mean everybody does.

It was pretty clear that Carol was both playing a role for her captors AND affected by her encounter with Morgan and the death of Sam. They had that scene of her tallying her kills in the last episode for a reason. Unlike Morgan I'm sure she'll continue to kill. But these recent turn of events seem to be taking their toll.

The only groan moment for me us when Maggie almost took a knifing to the abdomen. Yeah, they went there. Rest of the episode was solid including all the one-off actresses playing the captors. Each did a good job in the very short time they were given.

Luds

Total filler garbage episode. I sure hope Carol was faking otherwise it's time for her to bite it.

Navinabob

If you can't figure out Carol this episode (even without the 10 people here explaining it) and think that this episode was garbage, then this show may both too smart for you.

Which is scary... very very scary.

Dan

One of the best episodes this season.

Carol's actions are consistent with her character, and IMO, she's had the most significant and satisfying (from a viewer's perspective) story arc compared to anyone else. I think her re-evaluation of her actions began with "The Grove" in Season 4 (one of the heaviest episodes this show has ever had) and came to a head in this episode. She saw herself in Paula... she saw that the other women really weren't evil scumbags... and now she's incredibly fucked up over it all. I think Morgan's had a bit of an influence, but he's not the driving force behind her current inner conflict.

Draven and others in this thread are spot on. She's not, and has never been, a killer robot. She was able to "turn off" her brain in order to get shit done, and she's the ultimate bad-ass, but that shit doesn't last.

She's the most three-dimensional character on the show.

I really did like Alicia Witt as Paula. I hoped she'd be around for more than one episode.

Dave99

I like in that picture above, the guy on the far left aiming into the sky. Is he expecting a drop bear or tree ninja of some sort?

Astrofan

I can't believe this is even a question. Of course it was all an act. Even Alicia Witt's character commented on it.

Giantrobo

Why is this groan worthy? Grown worthy in that it was scary to think she may lose the baby in a fight or groan worthy because you thought is was a bad writing?

Luds

You're giving the writers way too much credit. Bad writing is a strong possibility.
And yes, it was a total filler show. This was like last week's cut scenes. More of Negan's crew died. Yay.

Osiris3657

I wonder how he felt about seeing Talisa getting shanked in her pregnant belly on GoT.

Koby

Maybe he was looking up in the trees to see if the people watching them was there? One could assume in normal situations if someone has a clear eye on you that they're in an advantage spot which is usually higher up, unfortunately this wasn't the case, but the guy didn't know that.

sracer

I agree with your observations, except I don't think that she'll continue to kill. She seemed so reluctant to kill that it nearly cost her and Maggie. If she doesn't turn around, this might be the last season for her character.

Navinabob

I think the writers must be giving their viewers too much credit apparently. I'll forward a memo to the writing staff to try and dumb things down a bit more and try and have the characters say out loud whatever they're thinking.

If it helps you any, I can also try and see if the characters will say their own name before delivering a line.

Dan

This is important and accurate, but I think another layer of reluctance came from the fact that she specifically saw Paula and the other women as relatively reasonable human beings and not psychopaths like the Wolves. It's "easier" to kill when you're fairly certain you're killing the bad guys. But these women weren't that; at least not from what we have seen so far.

Big Boy Laroux

"Pssssssssst... Pssssssssssst! Maggie! I'm totally pretending right now, just in case you're wondering why I'm acting different!"

Koby

Hell all other things aside, Maggie's expression was a give-away that Carol was acting.

I can't believe this ever even turned into a debate. It's not even questionable. o.O

Dan

"I am Maggie. I have a baby in me. I want to live because I love Glenn and this apocalypse is bullshit."

"Oh hi Maggie. I am Glenn, your husband. I am sad that they took you and I am glad that you are back. I will try not to almost-die under a dumpster again."

"Hello fellow humans! I am Rick, your fearless leader. We are good because we kill bad guys. How many people have you killed?"

"Carol is my name. 18, I think. Plus those people I just burned. Shit. Maybe I shouldn't just be killing everyone like a robot. Those people weren't so bad... or were they? Fuck, this apocalypse has brought out the worst in me."

"I am greasy and my name is Daryl."

Draven

I think the point is that Carol WILL still kill. When Maggie got slashed she just stepped up and blew that chick's head off. Then she turned around and burned the others alive. She's not giving up.

She's smart and crafty and wants to live. She will continue to kill to defend herself and her loved ones. But it's obviously taking a toll. The problem (and it's sort of a problem with everyone in this group) is that they are too good at doing this now. It's like soldiers who never leave the warzone for the rest of their lives. Yes, they'd get good at staying alive but eventually that would wear anyone down.

And Carol definitely saw herself in Alicia Witt's character - which could easily have been what Carol turned into herself.

andicus

JTH182

Snipers in a tower?

hdnmickey

Exactly. We'll see how it goes, but I suspect the difference between Carol and Morgan is that Carol still will off somebody that it actively trying to kill her or one of the group. The change is that that I no longer see her volunteering for any of these missions where they go on the offensive. Same for Maggie.