The Newsroom (S3E05) -- "Oh Shenandoah" -- 12/7/14
12-10-14 | 11:41 AM
#26
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Re: The Newsroom (S3E05) -- "Oh Shenandoah" -- 12/7/14
Great episode. Both swerves hit me hard and by the time that stupid song hit I was a mess. Brilliant TV.
12-10-14 | 11:56 AM
#27
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Re: The Newsroom (S3E05) -- "Oh Shenandoah" -- 12/7/14
Yeah, it's amazing how Sorkin (through Don's character) suggests that we should try rape cases in a court of law instead of the court of public opinion and the Internet explodes on him.
Then again, most media outlets have always been looking for something to slam about this show, because for three seasons Sorkin has been holding up a mirror and showing how unprofessional most news outlets are.
BTW, Dan - kudos to you - you "got it." That's exactly what Sorkin was saying - he went out of his way to make sure the victim in Don's scene got her say too and made a good argument from her POV.
Then again, most media outlets have always been looking for something to slam about this show, because for three seasons Sorkin has been holding up a mirror and showing how unprofessional most news outlets are.
BTW, Dan - kudos to you - you "got it." That's exactly what Sorkin was saying - he went out of his way to make sure the victim in Don's scene got her say too and made a good argument from her POV.
12-10-14 | 12:24 PM
#28
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Re: The Newsroom (S3E05) -- "Oh Shenandoah" -- 12/7/14
Then again, most media outlets have always been looking for something to slam about this show, because for three seasons Sorkin has been holding up a mirror and showing how unprofessional most news outlets are.
To me, it's not even just about her getting to express her point of view. I mean, yes... Sorkin absolutely made sure that the victim's story is critically important. Sorkin's point, if we really are "getting it," is like I said... right now, today, with the way things are... most rape victims can't ever truly "win" and... to be abundantly clear.... that. fucking. sucks. Sorkin doesn't have the answer to this problem. he's just pointing out exactly what the problem is and he's saying... let's fucking talk about it.
12-10-14 | 01:18 PM
#29
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Re: The Newsroom (S3E05) -- "Oh Shenandoah" -- 12/7/14
Man... the internet REALLY hates this episode.
They're saying that it's "rapesplaining"
and that Sorkin thinks "women shouldn't name their abusers"
and...
well, it just goes on and on.
I didn't get that vibe from the campus rape subplot at all.
I can't fully pull my thoughts together on this just now, because I really want to watch those parts again... but my overall impression was that Don completely understood (as best as possible, being a man who hasn't been raped) exactly why Mary wanted to go public with her site. If he was in her shoes, he'd probably do exactly what she wants to do. But... well... that's the part I'm having trouble putting together coherently. But, to try to be clear:
- I don't think Sorkin wants rape victims to remain silent
- I don't think Sorkin thinks it's unfair to legitimately call out your abuser if the justice system doesn't work
- I DO think Sorkin thinks a website where victims (and thus, literally anyone) can 'out' someone anonymously would go down a very dark path very very quickly, and the proprietor of that site would have to answer to the court when (not if) major false claims are made and lives are destroyed
- I don't think that last point contradicts the first two at all
- I don't think Sorkin believes that men have the right answers, and thus women don't, as suggested by Don going against the wishes of Mary, and lying about not being able to find her.
I don't know. I have a whole lot of thoughts about this one, and maybe it's my inner contrarian coming out a bit, but when I saw the ANGER directed at this episode... I just didn't get it. Knowing and understanding the character of Don, and seeing just how utterly conflicted he was (NOT just about doing a story he didn't want to do because of viewers/ratings, but about being on her side while not being able to take her side, so to speak) is what leads me to believe that there's just a really big misunderstanding as to Sorkin's intentions here... which is his fault, sure, but... wow.
Side-note: this series has been great. Damn Sorkin for ending it so soon.
They're saying that it's "rapesplaining"
and that Sorkin thinks "women shouldn't name their abusers"
and...
well, it just goes on and on.
I didn't get that vibe from the campus rape subplot at all.
I can't fully pull my thoughts together on this just now, because I really want to watch those parts again... but my overall impression was that Don completely understood (as best as possible, being a man who hasn't been raped) exactly why Mary wanted to go public with her site. If he was in her shoes, he'd probably do exactly what she wants to do. But... well... that's the part I'm having trouble putting together coherently. But, to try to be clear:
- I don't think Sorkin wants rape victims to remain silent
- I don't think Sorkin thinks it's unfair to legitimately call out your abuser if the justice system doesn't work
- I DO think Sorkin thinks a website where victims (and thus, literally anyone) can 'out' someone anonymously would go down a very dark path very very quickly, and the proprietor of that site would have to answer to the court when (not if) major false claims are made and lives are destroyed
- I don't think that last point contradicts the first two at all
- I don't think Sorkin believes that men have the right answers, and thus women don't, as suggested by Don going against the wishes of Mary, and lying about not being able to find her.
I don't know. I have a whole lot of thoughts about this one, and maybe it's my inner contrarian coming out a bit, but when I saw the ANGER directed at this episode... I just didn't get it. Knowing and understanding the character of Don, and seeing just how utterly conflicted he was (NOT just about doing a story he didn't want to do because of viewers/ratings, but about being on her side while not being able to take her side, so to speak) is what leads me to believe that there's just a really big misunderstanding as to Sorkin's intentions here... which is his fault, sure, but... wow.
Side-note: this series has been great. Damn Sorkin for ending it so soon.
12-10-14 | 03:07 PM
#30
Suspended
Re: The Newsroom (S3E05) -- "Oh Shenandoah" -- 12/7/14
Man... the internet REALLY hates this episode.
They're saying that it's "rapesplaining"
and that Sorkin thinks "women shouldn't name their abusers"
and...
well, it just goes on and on.
I didn't get that vibe from the campus rape subplot at all.
I can't fully pull my thoughts together on this just now, because I really want to watch those parts again... but my overall impression was that Don completely understood (as best as possible, being a man who hasn't been raped) exactly why Mary wanted to go public with her site. If he was in her shoes, he'd probably do exactly what she wants to do. But... well... that's the part I'm having trouble putting together coherently. But, to try to be clear:
- I don't think Sorkin wants rape victims to remain silent
- I don't think Sorkin thinks it's unfair to legitimately call out your abuser if the justice system doesn't work
- I DO think Sorkin thinks a website where victims (and thus, literally anyone) can 'out' someone anonymously would go down a very dark path very very quickly, and the proprietor of that site would have to answer to the court when (not if) major false claims are made and lives are destroyed
- I don't think that last point contradicts the first two at all
- I don't think Sorkin believes that men have the right answers, and thus women don't, as suggested by Don going against the wishes of Mary, and lying about not being able to find her.
I don't know. I have a whole lot of thoughts about this one, and maybe it's my inner contrarian coming out a bit, but when I saw the ANGER directed at this episode... I just didn't get it. Knowing and understanding the character of Don, and seeing just how utterly conflicted he was (NOT just about doing a story he didn't want to do because of viewers/ratings, but about being on her side while not being able to take her side, so to speak) is what leads me to believe that there's just a really big misunderstanding as to Sorkin's intentions here... which is his fault, sure, but... wow.
Side-note: this series has been great. Damn Sorkin for ending it so soon.
They're saying that it's "rapesplaining"
and that Sorkin thinks "women shouldn't name their abusers"
and...
well, it just goes on and on.
I didn't get that vibe from the campus rape subplot at all.
I can't fully pull my thoughts together on this just now, because I really want to watch those parts again... but my overall impression was that Don completely understood (as best as possible, being a man who hasn't been raped) exactly why Mary wanted to go public with her site. If he was in her shoes, he'd probably do exactly what she wants to do. But... well... that's the part I'm having trouble putting together coherently. But, to try to be clear:
- I don't think Sorkin wants rape victims to remain silent
- I don't think Sorkin thinks it's unfair to legitimately call out your abuser if the justice system doesn't work
- I DO think Sorkin thinks a website where victims (and thus, literally anyone) can 'out' someone anonymously would go down a very dark path very very quickly, and the proprietor of that site would have to answer to the court when (not if) major false claims are made and lives are destroyed
- I don't think that last point contradicts the first two at all
- I don't think Sorkin believes that men have the right answers, and thus women don't, as suggested by Don going against the wishes of Mary, and lying about not being able to find her.
I don't know. I have a whole lot of thoughts about this one, and maybe it's my inner contrarian coming out a bit, but when I saw the ANGER directed at this episode... I just didn't get it. Knowing and understanding the character of Don, and seeing just how utterly conflicted he was (NOT just about doing a story he didn't want to do because of viewers/ratings, but about being on her side while not being able to take her side, so to speak) is what leads me to believe that there's just a really big misunderstanding as to Sorkin's intentions here... which is his fault, sure, but... wow.
Side-note: this series has been great. Damn Sorkin for ending it so soon.
(My frustration, BTW, is aimed at the complainers on the internet, not Dan. Dan, your post was thoughtful and appreciated).
12-12-14 | 08:45 AM
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Re: The Newsroom (S3E05) -- "Oh Shenandoah" -- 12/7/14
Tangentially related...
Lena Dunham Says 'Barry' Was Pseudonym In Her Sexual Assault Essay
Lena writes a book "naming" republican "Barry" as a guy who sexually assaulted her in college. The media pours over college records, interviews past students, etc. to track down this Barry. They find who they think it is and plaster it all over the internet. He says, "Um, no." Two months later, Lena says, "Oh, Barry wasn't a real name."
I'd say The Newsroom was right in continuing to say, "What about vetting?"
Lena Dunham Says 'Barry' Was Pseudonym In Her Sexual Assault Essay
Lena writes a book "naming" republican "Barry" as a guy who sexually assaulted her in college. The media pours over college records, interviews past students, etc. to track down this Barry. They find who they think it is and plaster it all over the internet. He says, "Um, no." Two months later, Lena says, "Oh, Barry wasn't a real name."
I'd say The Newsroom was right in continuing to say, "What about vetting?"
