I don't know if I've ever complained about this show, I'm pretty forgiving but holy shit this was a snoozefest. 45 minutes to reveal what we already knew/assumed about Eugene.

Just that he had been thinking a lot about what the preacher did. i.e. Eugene finally feeling guilty about the half dozen people that died because of his bullshit lie.

Because their television screen was too dark as well and they just couldn't see them.

I liked this episode, I knew Eugene was full of crap, but I enjoyed to see Abraham's motivation.

I liked the episode. Enjoyed seeing Abraham's back story. Liked everything with Eugene. The tension within the group was well done.

There were a few bad points for me. The editing was badly done. I'm not sure if it was clear for people that didn't read the comic what was going on with Abraham's family. He basically killed a bunch of people that raped his wife. Wife thought he went to far and ran with the kids only to be eaten alive by zombies. Throughout the episode jumps were made that broke the flow of the episode. This probably the poorest edited episode to date of the walking dead. Still liked the show though.

I didn't have any problems with lighting that others are talking about. Maybe they corrected the problem on the west coast feed.

I was hoping Eugene was telling the truth. I thought it would have made for a more interesting story. I guess we have Z nation for things like that. Even though I like Eugene I hope Abraham has killed him just for the drama that will cause.

Seeing Eugene fall down like a tree had me chuckling.

I had an audio-dropout glitch as he fell which made it even cooler. Speaking of the broadcast, those new "SAVEAMC" banners sure pissed me off.

Blind spots and escapability would make these two poor choices. Also Eugene was being introspective about his lie and just mentioned thinking about the preacher to explain his lost in thought moment.

Unfortunately, that's what this season looks like on my TV too... other shows are perfectly fine (not a calibration issue).

So-So episode (they all can't be great), but had a good payoff in the end. I thought they rushed Abraham's backstory flashbacks during the episode, as his explaining it on Talking Dead helped alot.

I think the ending sort of summed up the show, as when someone they encounter gives them hope, its really just a mirage. Even the viewer believes that person, as I kept thinking what is going to happen when they get to DC, because they won't end the show at the height of its popularity? I should have realized this guy was full of shit, but if I were in their place, I would go with anyone who could bring me hope.

Non comic reader here, good to finally get some background on Abraham (even though, as has been mentioned, it wasn't perfectly clear what had happened). Loved him socking Eugene in the face.

Count me among those who are pissed off at AMC for these goddamn banners asking me to "save AMC". Fuck you AMC, you're the bad guy in this situation.

This episode was better than I expected, and certainly better than last week. I liked seeing Abraham's need for someone to tell him they were following him and confirming his decisions for him.

I'm guessing the slaughterhouse is a comic book thing? It looks like something that could be easily be avoided.

And the people who run AMC are prima donna crybabies.

I'm with kstublen on this one. Even if this was the beginning of it all (and based on how the town looked when Abraham went outside, it seemed to be a bit further into it), if the comic 'reason' is the same then his actions were completely justified. I mean,

That part was hilarious. Given how weak he is, I was surprised it took more than one punch to drop him like a bag of dirt.

Oh, and the shot of just seeing his head spying on Abraham and the hot chick having sex was another funny scene.

Well I am glad there was a logical explanation for why the bus went careening out of control on the road. When that happened I said:
- Why are they going that fast
- You would think that you have a running vehicle, you would take care not to run over any metal on the road, you would get out and clear it then keep going.

So the glass in the fuel line was welcomed explanation, and not just a way for the writers to keep the 2 groups 10miles apart from one another.

I'll echo others' sentiments that the editing was bad, but I had no issues with the night scenes being too dark.

Eugene watching them have sex...

I KNEW, right from when we met Eugene, that he was full of shit. If that reveal was a surprise to anyone, they need to re-evaluate how they watch TV.

Definitely a weak episode, especially paired with last week's as well. Next week looks like it'll be awesome.

No issues with the lighting here either; the scenes with Abraham looking out the window were dark, but that didn't bother me at all and I didn't need those scenes any lighter then what they were to make out what was happening.

I thought the editing in the episode were atrocious as well; particularly with the flashback scenes of Abraham. I assume they were trying to show what happened in a not-so-direct manner, but it was a little weird and didn't convey exactly what happened very well to his family. I was pretty tired watching the episode last night and thought it might have just been me not paying attention, but it seems like a common complaint.

I think it's way too dark, so I agree with those sentiments.

Cudlitz has been a great add, Hope he sticks around...

I also had no issues with the editing in this episode. I actually loved how abruptly they kept cutting off Abahram's flashbacks, often in the middle of a music cue.

Based solely on what they presented, Abraham beat a series of men to death in front of his family. His wife had obvious bruises and cuts on her face so I assumed she had been attacked and he defended her. But she was shocked at his violence and chose to leave with the kids. Not the best choice but it didn't seem like it had been a long time since the outbreak. Then he comes across their bodies as they didn't get very far. Seemed perfectly logical to me, even without the added backstory. I also inferred that this might not have been the first time he showed violence. The last straw as opposed to the first, so to speak.

As for the fire truck, he said he'd clean out the intake and it would work. He started clearing the intake and it obviously worked for a while. I didn't go back to check but I think they even said something about having to continually stop to clear it. Again...not everything is A to B to C but A to C is not a huge leap to take.

I was completely engrossed in this episode from start to finish. I think it's because this group had a purpose, even if it proved to be a lie. Rick's group is just...walking. There is no end game. This episode felt more like a mini-movie to me, as they had a goal and were working toward it.

Some random thoughts ...

They skipped the flashback where Abraham learns to drive at the Lori Grimes School of Driving.

If Abraham did not even know where the air intake was at, how did he know it was clogged with human remains? How does the intake ON TOP of the truck get clogged with human remains?

I think I thoroughly enjoyed the radio play this weekend. It would have been nice if they had filmed those scenes and showed them to us. (DARK!)

What the fuck did the writers do to Maggie? She has become the new Lori. She went from hot badass to hot dumbass who serves no purpose. Hell, Beth is suddenly smarter and more useful than Maggie! (Lauren: My script doesn't have any lines of dialogue ... Director: Just stand over there and act bubbly ... Lauren: but my whole family just died, we've been in a terrible bus crash, and we are surrounded by zombies ... Director: Bubbly!)

Eugene's water cannon attack was pretty awesome. He is much more useful than he believes.

Abraham is just as full of shit as Eugene. I called it back when we first met him: he is a man who needs a mission. It doesn't have to make sense, it just needs to give him purpose. I still think he knew this about Eugene all along though. He either turned a blind eye or emotionally couldn't handle the truth, so he participated in the charade because it gave him purpose.

There were some great one liners this week. "The smartest man I ever met happened to like my hair. (edited) He said my hair made me look like, and I quote, 'a fun guy.' Which I am."

I'm not opposed to these singular episodes for each group, but they aren't flowing very well. By the fifth season in, a show should not still be struggling to find its narrative structure.

15 miles? They made it 15 miles from the church, walked a little further, and found a store which had not been ransacked? The concepts of time and space still continue to elude the writers.

Eugene's sabotage M.O. will make it interesting to rewatch previous episodes. Remember when he machine gunned their own truck?

good one.

I think that is the only problem when you have so many main characters in the group, that some of them get lost in the shuffle.

They have yet to give Maggie anything in terms of interesting dialogue this season, other then agreeing with Glenn, and an occassional, "You're one of us now!"

At this point is she pure eye-candy for the show (not that I'm complaining).

I like the standalone character episodes with Beth last week, but I don't like when they focus on one part of the group for a whole episode, as they could have easily intercut them with Rick's group, etc.

So how effective would a super soaker be against a zombie? I'm sure the fire truck hose was much higher pressure but we know that the zombies have a very soft head. So what would a hard rain or hail storm do to their heads?

you have a point - even a strong BB Gun - would seem to work at this point

I don't necessarily buy that ... I'll agree that a large cast means characters will get lost for a number of episodes, and I am OK with that and believe it can be worked well. You have to use all your characters and use them regularly. One of the failings of TWD has been to through a bunch of new characters in, wait for the fan base to declare who they like or don't like, and then write the scripts from there.

I don't think the Maggie problem is a result of been in the background for awhile. The problem is either new writers who don't know how to write for her character or existing writers who have shoved her to the back to cover the fact that they don't know what to do with her. At points in this episode I really felt as if they did a re-write and shifted much of Maggie's lines and story over to Rosita just to finally put her in the limelight. (Eugene could have easily been watching Maggie and Glen, but then the jokes and "blowing it off" wouldn't have made sense. There has not been anything that I recall to suggest a relationship between Abraham and Eugene up till now. Also, her lines towards the end felt more like they should have come from Rosita or the other lady.)

Maggie was established as a VERY strong willed, independent but family oriented woman. Now we have hit the point where she has inexplicably written off her sister without emotion and acts like an awkward, gangly teenager with no real purpose.

Characters can change and develop. Carol's arc from a demure domestic abuse victim to master survivalist has been pretty damn masterful. It was awkward at times, but when you step back and look at it ... It was well done.

However, we have seen this happen a number of times. The writing for female leads goes to shit and we end up despising characters we are intended to love. Lori did not start off terrible, but into the second season the baby apparently ate her brain and she turned into Lady MacBeth in seconds. Andrea should have developed into a badass but the writers screwed her over so bad she had to go. By that point she couldn't even figure out that she should use the screwdriver to kill the zombie, not to try to free herself.

It is looking like Maggie's days may be numbered. I'm not saying that based on any plotline, but rather the horrible misuse of the character which will inevitably turn the fans against her.