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-   -   Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14 (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/tv-talk/619577-game-thrones-breaker-chains-4-20-14-a.html)

wishbone 04-22-14 09:28 AM

I am not made of the stuff of heroes.
 
<img src=http://i62.tinypic.com/xlcg43.jpg width=500>

davidh777 04-22-14 09:37 AM

Re: Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14
 

Originally Posted by Tommy Ceez (Post 12083943)
She was showing the Slaves of Mereen that she is the, ahem..Breaker of Chains. The collars that the slaves were wearing in Mereen were the collars her army used to wear. Its a call to rebellion.

What made it especially effective is that Mereen uses the same brand of slave collar as the previous city/cities. They might be regretting their decision to go with the cheap supplier that everyone else uses.


Originally Posted by General Zod (Post 12084542)
Especially in front of his kid.

For a second there, I thought you were talking about the Hound's "kid." :lol:

DeputyDave 04-22-14 09:47 AM

Re: Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14
 
As far as Jaime and the "rape" goes I think it needs to be placed in context. We are conditioned differently now but Westeros is a very misogynistic place (and Martin a very misogynistic writer). No really didn't mean no and as I think was mentioned she really didn't fight him too hard. I think she seemed more upset about the where and when than the actual sex. Keep in mind they had been lovers for their entire lives and Jaime wanted her back after being gone for several years.

Why So Blu? 04-22-14 09:51 AM

Re: Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14
 
Here's George R.R. Martin's response to the "rape" scene:


Spoiler:
In the novels, Jaime is not present at Joffrey's death, and indeed, Cersei has been fearful that he is dead himself, that she has lost both the son and the father/ lover/ brother. And then suddenly Jaime is there before her. Maimed and changed, but Jaime nonetheless. Though the time and place is wildly inappropriate and Cersei is fearful of discovery, she is as hungry for him as he is for her.

The whole dynamic is different in the show, where Jaime has been back for weeks at the least, maybe longer, and he and Cersei have been in each other's company on numerous occasions, often quarreling. The setting is the same, but neither character is in the same place as in the books, which may be why Dan & David played the sept out differently. But that's just my surmise; we never discussed this scene, to the best of my recollection.

Also, I was writing the scene from Jaime's POV, so the reader is inside his head, hearing his thoughts. On the TV show, the camera is necessarily external. You don't know what anyone is thinking or feeling, just what they are saying and doing.

If the show had retained some of Cersei's dialogue from the books, it might have left a somewhat different impression -- but that dialogue was very much shaped by the circumstances of the books, delivered by a woman who is seeing her lover again for the first time after a long while apart during which she feared he was dead. I am not sure it would have worked with the new timeline.

That's really all I can say on this issue. The scene was always intended to be disturbing... but I do regret if it has disturbed people for the wrong reasons.

General Zod 04-22-14 10:09 AM

Re: Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14
 
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...ral_zod/ha.jpg

Draven 04-22-14 10:09 AM

Re: Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14
 
I find it interesting that people think Jamie went too far with the rape, but seem to have forgotten he started this show by pushing a child out of a tower window, crippling him for life. He's not a nice guy.

DaveyJoe 04-22-14 10:21 AM

Re: Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14
 
Yeah, and in the books it was pretty rapey until the last moment, and that was through Jaime's POV. I see nothing wrong with making it a bit more ambiguous in the show.

Shazam 04-22-14 10:43 AM

Re: Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 12084798)
I find it interesting that people think Jamie went too far with the rape, but seem to have forgotten he started this show by pushing a child out of a tower window, crippling him for life. He's not a nice guy.

Yeah but who hasn't wanted to throw a kid out a window?

davidh777 04-22-14 10:53 AM

Re: Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14
 

Originally Posted by Shazam (Post 12084841)
Yeah but who hasn't wanted to throw a kid out a window?

Yeah, especially when they caught me nailing my sister. :whofart:

JaxComet 04-22-14 09:34 PM

Re: Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14
 

Originally Posted by General Zod (Post 12084542)
Every time I think the hound is turning a corner and maybe becoming a bit of a tolerable guy he does something to show what an asshat he really is. I don't care if he's right or not.. you don't beat up and steal from a guy who just helped you. Especially in front of his kid. I hope he dies in a fire.

I'm still seeing this as a bit of an improvement. Back in earlier seasons he probably would have just killed the guy and the kid.

dhmac 04-22-14 10:54 PM

Re: Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14
 

Originally Posted by Decker (Post 12083781)

Yep. If there was just one casting couch hire on the show, Shae is definitely it.

(Her lack of talent with her clothes on just makes it seem obvious)

RoyalTea 04-23-14 10:32 AM

Re: Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 12084798)
I find it interesting that people think Jamie went too far with the rape, but seem to have forgotten he started this show by pushing a child out of a tower window, crippling him for life. He's not a nice guy.

Yeah, there have been so many disturbing things throughout the first 3 seasons, but now the show has crossed a line?

fumanstan 04-23-14 10:33 AM

Re: Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14
 
I never had any problems with Shae and her acting, but then again I don't know if the character was supposed to be different in the books.

GCS 04-23-14 11:42 AM

Re: Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14
 

Originally Posted by RoyalTea (Post 12085933)
Yeah, there have been so many disturbing things throughout the first 3 seasons, but now the show has crossed a line?

I agree with this completely.

Nausicaa 04-23-14 11:48 AM

Re: Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14
 

Originally Posted by GCS (Post 12086016)
I agree with this completely.

I couldn't disagree any less.

Draven 04-23-14 12:00 PM

Re: Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14
 

Originally Posted by fumanstan (Post 12085936)
I never had any problems with Shae and her acting, but then again I don't know if the character was supposed to be different in the books.

She's not - she's actually probably more "mature" on the show. In the books she comes across like a spoiled brat most of the time.

barelypure 04-24-14 09:43 AM

Re: Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 12086045)
She's not - she's actually probably more "mature" on the show. In the books she comes across like a spoiled brat most of the time.

I can get past her looks as I'd imagine most prostitutes then, as now, would look well worn. Rode hard and put up wet if you will. It was her intelligence that attracted Tyrion.


Originally Posted by DaveyJoe (Post 12084812)
Yeah, and in the books it was pretty rapey until the last moment, and that was through Jaime's POV. I see nothing wrong with making it a bit more ambiguous in the show.

I don't know that I'd say Jaime was "pretty rapey" as Brienne seemed safe around him... :D

DaveyJoe 04-24-14 10:26 AM

Re: Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14
 
Jaime and Cersei have a very dysfunctional pull/push relationship. The fact is, in the book Jaime is ripping her clothes off and forcing himself while ignoring her pleas. The only difference is that Cersei eventually gives verbal consent in the book. If anybody's behavior is different in the show, it's Cersei.

GreenMonkey 04-24-14 10:39 AM

Re: Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14
 

Originally Posted by DaveyJoe (Post 12087241)
Jaime and Cersei have a very dysfunctional pull/push relationship. The fact is, in the book Jaime is ripping her clothes off and forcing himself while ignoring her pleas. The only difference is that Cersei eventually gives verbal consent in the book. If anybody's behavior is different in the show, it's Cersei.

And the situation, though. Jaime pushes himself on her in a church, but not in a church next to the body of her dead son. Comes off a bit different / harsher that way.

DaveyJoe 04-24-14 10:42 AM

Re: Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14
 
Well yeah, I'm referring to the scene in the Sept, Cersei's main objection is the location. "Not here, this isn't right.." That doesn't make Jaime's behavior any more/less rapacious though. :shrug:

Giantrobo 04-24-14 02:26 PM

Re: Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14
 

Originally Posted by DaveyJoe (Post 12087241)
Jaime and Cersei have a very dysfunctional pull/push relationship. The fact is, in the book Jaime is ripping her clothes off and forcing himself while ignoring her pleas. The only difference is that Cersei eventually gives verbal consent in the book. If anybody's behavior is different in the show, it's Cersei.


I'll have to see the scene again.. but I got the vibe that was she was in fact giving in as the scene ended. I remember thinking, "was she actually giving IN to him, or was she just weak with grief being next to her dead son and just giving UP".

Draven 04-24-14 05:46 PM

Re: Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14
 
It starts walking the "she really wants it no matter what she says" line but she was obviously kissing him back as it went on.

Decker 04-25-14 12:47 PM

Re: Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14
 
https://scontent-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hpho...78586831_n.jpg

Josh-da-man 04-30-14 12:16 AM

Re: Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14
 

Originally Posted by DeputyDave (Post 12084767)
As far as Jaime and the "rape" goes I think it needs to be placed in context. We are conditioned differently now but Westeros is a very misogynistic place (and Martin a very misogynistic writer). No really didn't mean no and as I think was mentioned she really didn't fight him too hard. I think she seemed more upset about the where and when than the actual sex. Keep in mind they had been lovers for their entire lives and Jaime wanted her back after being gone for several years.

Yes, this whole controversy is really idiotic. The world of "Game of Thrones" is a cruel and brutal place. Is Jamie forcing himself on Cersei somehow worse than pitching a seven year-old boy out of a window? Or Cersei having the Hound and others hunt down and kill children?

I really doubt that Jaime's actions would be considered rape in the context of the universe they inhabit. Even Cersei herself was pretty nonchalant about the prospect of being gang-raped in the event the Red Keep was invaded by Stannis' forces.

Westeros is not a particularly nice place to live or visit. Women are treated as little more than property, first to her own family, then, after marriage, to their husband's family. They have few rights and few prospects. We can't really apply our western, twenty-first century values and morals to these characters.

Osiris3657 04-30-14 08:47 AM

Re: Game of Thrones -- "Breaker of Chains" -- 4/20/14
 

Originally Posted by Decker (Post 12088393)

This was posted in the OP of this thread, keep up.


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