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-   -   The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14 (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/tv-talk/618807-walking-dead-grove-3-16-14-a.html)

DthRdrX 03-18-14 04:14 PM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 12048253)
If the zombies catch fire but then walk out of it, the fire could easily burn out long before it disintegrates the zombies. That's why crematoriums have to use such intense heat...it's hard to destroy a body with fire. They looked suitable crispy to me, especially since they still have to have actors under the makeup.

I always assumed Zombies avoided fire but I guess TWD is a different animal. I'm surprised this universe hasn't really shown us anyone attempting to use torches or homemade flamethrowers, lighters with spray cans. Seems easier than searching for ammo. Might have been useful to try and see if they avoid it or not.

As mentioned, fire will eventually destroy them as evidenced by the barn in S2 and Milton and the pit in S3.

JZ1276 03-18-14 04:18 PM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 

Originally Posted by Gambit (Post 12047879)
Why didn't she kill herself? Maybe that's not part of her delusion. She doesn't want to be different, she just wants to be herself. Also, she is probably still aware enough to not want to inflict pain on herself.

umm, she was about to let the walker that was stuck in the tracks bite her arm remember? Mika pulled her away.

Preterite 03-18-14 05:26 PM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 

Originally Posted by Big Boy Laroux (Post 12048178)
Yeah, I think that's what the writers were going for in the scene where Mika helps Lizzie calm down by counting flowers. That seemed like a leftover from their life before (as in - Mika would not have come up with that on her own).

I believe that when their father got bit and had to be "put down", he told the girls to look at the flowers, keep looking at the flowers.

TGM 03-18-14 05:35 PM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 
http://i.imgur.com/XQ965BX.jpg

Gambit 03-18-14 06:03 PM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 

Originally Posted by JZ1276 (Post 12048691)
umm, she was about to let the walker that was stuck in the tracks bite her arm remember? Mika pulled her away.

She was all over the place with respect to the walkers. She froze in fear with the one that came out of the window, she played with the one in the yard and on the tracks, ran away screaming from the charred ones. So I guess there might have been times where she may have wanted to become a walker.

But I would say, if anything, that would have been a very recent idea as she's never tried that in all the opportunities she's had in the past.

Astrofan 03-18-14 06:07 PM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 

Originally Posted by mphtrilogy (Post 12048085)
Looking forward to seeing this show's sequel set in another part of the country

I'm not. What's new? Join together, fight, meet crazy people, break up, join together, fight, meet crazy people...

Rocketdog2000 03-18-14 06:59 PM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger (Post 12048457)
A couple of points. I didn't think the child actor did a very good job as Lizzie, the storyline might have been better received with a stronger performance. She was cast because she was a cute kid, nothing more. Which is a problem often on TWD, they seem to go for a certain look with each character and pick actors more for cosmetic reasons than anything else.

Child actors, in general, are a very iffy prospect. For the role she needed to play, I thought she did just fine. And she was playing a kid, after all, so I wasn't expecting the same from her as I would an adult, or adult character.


As for her recurring subplot, they definitely built it up over the season. I would argue her story was clumsily handled, they spent way too much time on a nutty child arc for the payoff we ultimately got. As others have said, the way these characters were introduced gave us some clue they weren't going to stick around for the long term. The audience never really got invested in either child. This would have been a much more devastating story if Carl or Beth had been killed.
Yeah, it may have been a bit clumsy, at points, but again, as I previously stated, Lizzie's character (and that of her sister, Mika) got waaaaaay more of a storyline to set them up than their counterparts in the comics did. If you were disappointed in this, then I think you would absolutely hate the way it was handled in the comics.

I knew what was coming, but still got invested in them.

Abob Teff 03-18-14 07:02 PM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 

Originally Posted by Astrofan (Post 12048827)
I'm not. What's new? Join together, fight, meet crazy people, break up, join together, fight, meet crazy people...

You forgot talking and farming ...

Abob Teff 03-18-14 07:06 PM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 
Did Lizzie remind anybody else of Newt from Aliens? Like Newt, Lizzie's face often looked paralyzed from the top lip up. She was one of those characters where it is difficult to tell if the actor is really bad or really damn good for coming off that way. (I always thought this of Timothy Olyphant in Deadwood -- he looked like he had some really serious constipation going on the whole time.)

Abob Teff 03-18-14 07:12 PM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 

Originally Posted by DJariya (Post 12047989)
:thumbsup: that was a fantastic episode IMO.

Some of Melissa McBride's best work on the series. Her confession to Tyreese really capped off the emotional aspect of this episode. Carol had to make a really tough and devastating choice.

Scott Gimple had some balls killing off two children in one episode. I think he should get some credit for that. I think most TV show runners would look at it as a taboo to have that happen on TV.

Balls for killing off the two kids ... Yes. But had they dropped already we would have gotten rid of Judith too.

I don't think Carol saw it as a choice. Lizzie had to go before she killed again (or caused anybody else to be attacked). Her actions here were no different than her actions in burning Karen and the other sick person. Tyrese was accepting of Carol's explanation about burning them because he had just witnessed it first hand. The greater good justified Carol's actions. Carol didn't kill Lizzie because Lizzie killed Mika, she did it because Lizzie would have caused everybody's death.

PhantomStranger 03-18-14 10:23 PM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 12048583)
I 100% disagree. Just because they weren't around long, doesn't mean it wasn't an impactful moment when a woman has to gun down a child in cold blood because she was a killer and they don't have any way to handle her in this world. Even if we had just met the kids, it would have been something. We knew Lizzy was the one feeding the walkers, we knew she had weird views about them and this was the episode where it all came to a head due to the "perfect circumstances". I thought they did a great job of setting up something that they hadn't had to deal with before and doing it in a heartbreaking and tragic way.

It was easily the best episode of the season and one of the best of the whole series.

The stuff with Carol was much, much better, I agree. That was a tough moral decision for her to make, especially considering her own history.

Big Boy Laroux 03-18-14 11:22 PM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 

Originally Posted by Preterite (Post 12048789)
I believe that when their father got bit and had to be "put down", he told the girls to look at the flowers, keep looking at the flowers.

I guess that was mentioned in an earlier episode? My memory ain't what it used to be.

Josh-da-man 03-19-14 04:37 AM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 

Originally Posted by DthRdrX (Post 12048685)
I always assumed Zombies avoided fire but I guess TWD is a different animal.

It makes a certain kind of sense that zombies wouldn't avoid fire. They don't show any kind of self-preservation instincts, the only thing they do is feed. They will be drawn to the light and motion of the fire, and some will burn up and some won't.

Keeping bonfires going might be an interesting way to divert and destroy zombies.

majorjoe23 03-19-14 06:25 AM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man (Post 12049213)
It makes a certain kind of sense that zombies wouldn't avoid fire. They don't show any kind of self-preservation instincts, the only thing they do is feed. They will be drawn to the light and motion of the fire, and some will burn up and some won't.

Keeping bonfires going might be an interesting way to divert and destroy zombies.

And waste matches?!?!

mnementh 03-19-14 07:09 AM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 
Carol didn't secure the fence post when she left the house. I guess the survivors don't ever think they might need to retreat to a previous shelter.

argh923 03-19-14 07:30 AM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger (Post 12048457)
This would have been a much more devastating story if Carl or Beth had been killed.

Speak for yourself. I anxiously await with glee the day that Carl eats a bullet.

Draven 03-19-14 07:39 AM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 

Originally Posted by mnementh (Post 12049245)
Carol didn't secure the fence post when she left the house. I guess the survivors don't ever think they might need to retreat to a previous shelter.

She doesn't give a shit about that place anymore. Felt like a "let it burn" moment from her too. Nothing but bad memories.

Everyone knows this is a TV show and not a manual on how to survive a zombie apocalypse, right?

Krayzie 03-19-14 08:05 AM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 

Originally Posted by Draven (Post 12049261)
She doesn't give a shit about that place anymore. Felt like a "let it burn" moment from her too. Nothing but bad memories.

Everyone knows this is a TV show and not a manual on how to survive a zombie apocalypse, right?

Well there goes all my notes...

Troy Stiffler 03-19-14 08:29 AM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 

Originally Posted by mnementh (Post 12049245)
Carol didn't secure the fence post when she left the house. I guess the survivors don't ever think they might need to retreat to a previous shelter.

I noticed that too.

Very inconsiderate.

Coral 03-19-14 09:06 AM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 

Originally Posted by mnementh (Post 12049245)
Carol didn't secure the fence post when she left the house. I guess the survivors don't ever think they might need to retreat to a previous shelter.

You're probably joking, but in case you aren't... didn't we see a walker trip over the fence to the other side? Doesn't look like the fence does much in keeping walkers out.

Rocketdog2000 03-19-14 09:31 AM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 

Originally Posted by argh923 (Post 12049256)
Speak for yourself. I anxiously await with glee the day that Carl eats a bullet.

Unlikely to happen, as Kirkman has pretty much said the Walking Dead is primarily Carl and Rick's story.

However if you read the comics...

Spoiler:
then you know that sometime in the not too distant future, Carl does take another bullet, but doesn't die. He loses an eye to it, and get's a rather nasty facial scar because of it.

starseed1981 03-19-14 09:47 AM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 
Just when I'm about to drop this show they do an excellent episode like that. Seems to be their MO these days.

chowderhead 03-19-14 10:09 AM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 

Originally Posted by Rocketdog2000 (Post 12049383)
Unlikely to happen, as Kirkman has pretty much said the Walking Dead is primarily Carl and Rick's story.

However if you read the comics...

Spoiler:
then you know that sometime in the not too distant future, Carl does take another bullet, but doesn't die. He loses an eye to it, and get's a rather nasty facial scar because of it.

Spoiler:
That dude has more lives than 10 cats. Anyway, Rick in the comics also loses a hand but Kirkman is on record saying he regretted doing that. I don't think they will go with this story arc for Carl though they may give it to someone else.

d2cheer 03-19-14 10:10 AM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger (Post 12048457)
A couple of points. I didn't think the child actor did a very good job as Lizzie, the storyline might have been better received with a stronger performance. She was cast because she was a cute kid, nothing more. Which is a problem often on TWD, they seem to go for a certain look with each character and pick actors more for cosmetic reasons than anything else.

OMFG...so TV is full of homely and unattractive people on other shows? News to me. Sorry but that made me :lol:

Some of the criticisms here just make my head spin...and can't understand how some can enjoy any type of show.

Big Boy Laroux 03-19-14 10:53 AM

Re: The Walking Dead -- "The Grove" -- 3/16/14
 

Originally Posted by majorjoe23 (Post 12049227)
And waste matches?!?!

not an issue - there are always plenty of matches to take from Country Clubs across the nation.


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