More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?
06-20-13, 01:13 PM
#26
DVD Talk Limited Edition
Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?
It's good to see that Ian Levine is still the same low-key individual not prone to overly dramatic and hyperbolic comments.
06-21-13, 12:34 AM
#27
Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?
The last person I would trust on a "rumor" is Levine. I know the guy has done a lot for Who fandom, and has rescued some missing episodes and stuff, but he has also made claims in the past that turned out to be meritless.
Anyway, the story about this big batch of recovered episodes isn't completely dead yet. Firstly, that statement by Phillip Morris seems a bit off:
This guy runs a archive recovery company, and has looked for missing Who episodes in the past. To say "THEY ARE NOT MISSING BUT DESTROYED THE END" sounds absolutely ridiculous. A missing episodes pops up every 5-10 yrs. To say they are all gone, end of story, seems totally unprofessional and conflicts with his company's mission. The statement just sounds like someone who has probably been harassed by a barage of questions about the recent rumors, and was written to deflect attention.
In the meantime, Outpost Skaro still insists that their sources are legitimate, and also states that they had never linked the recovery to Morris.
At this stage, we'll all just have to wait and see. If 3 tons of film cannisters were returned from Zambia to the BBC back in 2011, it would seem possible that maybe some of those would contain some old Who material.
Also found this on another site, which was an interesting read:
Anyway, the story about this big batch of recovered episodes isn't completely dead yet. Firstly, that statement by Phillip Morris seems a bit off:
T.I.E.A DOES NOT HOLD ANY MISSING EPISODES OF THE LONG RUNNING DR WHO SERIES. THE ORIGINAL VIDEO TAPES WERE WIPED SUBSEQUENT FILM COPIES WERE EITHER RETURNED TO THE BBC AND SENT TO LANDFILL ODD FRAGMENTS HAVE SURFACED TWO EPISODES ON 16MM FILM BUT THATS IT. THE PROGRAMMES IN QUESTION LIKE MANY OTHERS WERE DESTROYED AS THEY HAD NO FURTHER COMMERCIAL VALUE .THEY ARE NOT MISSING BUT DESTROYED THE END.I am sorry if this upsets some people but these are the facts.I have also become aware of the tracking of some of our clients shipments these are local cultural materials sent to us for migration to a modern format as the playback equipment in the country of origin no longer exists and as such is the best road to preserve international cultural heritage .I will be making no more statements on this subject.Philip MORRIS Executive director T.i.e.a
In the meantime, Outpost Skaro still insists that their sources are legitimate, and also states that they had never linked the recovery to Morris.
At this stage, we'll all just have to wait and see. If 3 tons of film cannisters were returned from Zambia to the BBC back in 2011, it would seem possible that maybe some of those would contain some old Who material.
Also found this on another site, which was an interesting read:
Okay, paraphrasing because I'm pissed off.
There were 185 1st and 2nd Doctor episodes sold to Zambia during the 60's, and it's reasonable to assume that any 3 tons of film canisters the BBC may or may not have received, would not come pre-sorted, so if anybody is saying "yeah, we have 90+ episodes of missing Who" what they probably mean is that they found that many cans labeled "Doctor Who," and the contents would be a mix of episodes the BBC have in their archive and ones that they don't.
Assuming the 90+ sample size is correct, that lowers the likely number of potential recovered missing episodes significantly. However, there are a couple of interesting factors about the Zambia market that are worth noting.
Zambian TV (or ZTV) was not the last stop on the distribution chain for Africa for the first round of Hartnell episodes. What that means is that we can pretty much scratch Marco Polo and The Reign of Terror off the list, as those prints would have been sent on to Uganda. However, this works in our favor overall because 44 of those episodes were ones we already had copies of, meaning that anything being returned would likely be from seasons 3 through 6, where 63 of our 71 missing episodes reside. (statistically this means opening any random film canister marked "Doctor Who" we now have a 45% chance of it being a lost episode, as opposed to a 38% chance)
But wait, the numbers get even better from there, because Zambia was the ONLY African nation to purchase Patrick Troughton episodes... and they got them at the very end of the distribution run, meaning that any prints they had of the 12 Second Doctor stories I listed should have been junked or returned to the BBC, they wouldn't have been passed on to another buyer.
The BBC have no record of ever receiving them back, and it's not like anyone was actually enforcing the junking policy, so that's 68 episodes which could very well have been sitting in the back room of the ZTV film storehouse for 40+ years!
Long story short, the entire rumor may be bullshit, but if there really is a mysterious 3 ton shipment of old film that's been returned to the BBC, having it come from Zambia is the best possible news we could have hoped for, especially for Troughton fans.
There were 185 1st and 2nd Doctor episodes sold to Zambia during the 60's, and it's reasonable to assume that any 3 tons of film canisters the BBC may or may not have received, would not come pre-sorted, so if anybody is saying "yeah, we have 90+ episodes of missing Who" what they probably mean is that they found that many cans labeled "Doctor Who," and the contents would be a mix of episodes the BBC have in their archive and ones that they don't.
Assuming the 90+ sample size is correct, that lowers the likely number of potential recovered missing episodes significantly. However, there are a couple of interesting factors about the Zambia market that are worth noting.
Zambian TV (or ZTV) was not the last stop on the distribution chain for Africa for the first round of Hartnell episodes. What that means is that we can pretty much scratch Marco Polo and The Reign of Terror off the list, as those prints would have been sent on to Uganda. However, this works in our favor overall because 44 of those episodes were ones we already had copies of, meaning that anything being returned would likely be from seasons 3 through 6, where 63 of our 71 missing episodes reside. (statistically this means opening any random film canister marked "Doctor Who" we now have a 45% chance of it being a lost episode, as opposed to a 38% chance)
But wait, the numbers get even better from there, because Zambia was the ONLY African nation to purchase Patrick Troughton episodes... and they got them at the very end of the distribution run, meaning that any prints they had of the 12 Second Doctor stories I listed should have been junked or returned to the BBC, they wouldn't have been passed on to another buyer.
The BBC have no record of ever receiving them back, and it's not like anyone was actually enforcing the junking policy, so that's 68 episodes which could very well have been sitting in the back room of the ZTV film storehouse for 40+ years!
Long story short, the entire rumor may be bullshit, but if there really is a mysterious 3 ton shipment of old film that's been returned to the BBC, having it come from Zambia is the best possible news we could have hoped for, especially for Troughton fans.
06-21-13, 12:35 AM
#28
Re: More missing Doctor Who episodes recovered?
The last person I would trust on a "rumor" is Levine. I know the guy has done a lot for Who fandom, and has rescued some missing episodes and stuff, but he has also made claims in the past that turned out to be meritless.
Anyway, the story about this big batch of recovered episodes isn't completely dead yet. Firstly, that statement by Phillip Morris seems a bit off:
This guy runs a archive recovery company, and has looked for missing Who episodes in the past. To say "THEY ARE NOT MISSING BUT DESTROYED THE END" sounds absolutely ridiculous. A missing episodes pops up every 5-10 yrs. To say they are all gone, end of story, seems totally unprofessional and conflicts with his company's mission. The statement just sounds like someone who has probably been harassed by a barage of questions about the recent rumors, and was written to deflect attention.
In the meantime, Outpost Skaro still insists that their sources are legitimate, and also states that they had never linked the recovery to Morris.
At this stage, we'll all just have to wait and see. If 3 tons of film cannisters were returned from Zambia to the BBC back in 2011, it would seem possible that maybe some of those would contain some old Who material.
Also found this on another site, which was an interesting read:
Anyway, the story about this big batch of recovered episodes isn't completely dead yet. Firstly, that statement by Phillip Morris seems a bit off:
T.I.E.A DOES NOT HOLD ANY MISSING EPISODES OF THE LONG RUNNING DR WHO SERIES. THE ORIGINAL VIDEO TAPES WERE WIPED SUBSEQUENT FILM COPIES WERE EITHER RETURNED TO THE BBC AND SENT TO LANDFILL ODD FRAGMENTS HAVE SURFACED TWO EPISODES ON 16MM FILM BUT THATS IT. THE PROGRAMMES IN QUESTION LIKE MANY OTHERS WERE DESTROYED AS THEY HAD NO FURTHER COMMERCIAL VALUE .THEY ARE NOT MISSING BUT DESTROYED THE END.I am sorry if this upsets some people but these are the facts.I have also become aware of the tracking of some of our clients shipments these are local cultural materials sent to us for migration to a modern format as the playback equipment in the country of origin no longer exists and as such is the best road to preserve international cultural heritage .I will be making no more statements on this subject.Philip MORRIS Executive director T.i.e.a
In the meantime, Outpost Skaro still insists that their sources are legitimate, and also states that they had never linked the recovery to Morris.
At this stage, we'll all just have to wait and see. If 3 tons of film cannisters were returned from Zambia to the BBC back in 2011, it would seem possible that maybe some of those would contain some old Who material.
Also found this on another site, which was an interesting read:
Okay, paraphrasing because I'm pissed off.
There were 185 1st and 2nd Doctor episodes sold to Zambia during the 60's, and it's reasonable to assume that any 3 tons of film canisters the BBC may or may not have received, would not come pre-sorted, so if anybody is saying "yeah, we have 90+ episodes of missing Who" what they probably mean is that they found that many cans labeled "Doctor Who," and the contents would be a mix of episodes the BBC have in their archive and ones that they don't.
Assuming the 90+ sample size is correct, that lowers the likely number of potential recovered missing episodes significantly. However, there are a couple of interesting factors about the Zambia market that are worth noting.
Zambian TV (or ZTV) was not the last stop on the distribution chain for Africa for the first round of Hartnell episodes. What that means is that we can pretty much scratch Marco Polo and The Reign of Terror off the list, as those prints would have been sent on to Uganda. However, this works in our favor overall because 44 of those episodes were ones we already had copies of, meaning that anything being returned would likely be from seasons 3 through 6, where 63 of our 71 missing episodes reside. (statistically this means opening any random film canister marked "Doctor Who" we now have a 45% chance of it being a lost episode, as opposed to a 38% chance)
But wait, the numbers get even better from there, because Zambia was the ONLY African nation to purchase Patrick Troughton episodes... and they got them at the very end of the distribution run, meaning that any prints they had of the 12 Second Doctor stories I listed should have been junked or returned to the BBC, they wouldn't have been passed on to another buyer.
The BBC have no record of ever receiving them back, and it's not like anyone was actually enforcing the junking policy, so that's 68 episodes which could very well have been sitting in the back room of the ZTV film storehouse for 40+ years!
Long story short, the entire rumor may be bullshit, but if there really is a mysterious 3 ton shipment of old film that's been returned to the BBC, having it come from Zambia is the best possible news we could have hoped for, especially for Troughton fans.
There were 185 1st and 2nd Doctor episodes sold to Zambia during the 60's, and it's reasonable to assume that any 3 tons of film canisters the BBC may or may not have received, would not come pre-sorted, so if anybody is saying "yeah, we have 90+ episodes of missing Who" what they probably mean is that they found that many cans labeled "Doctor Who," and the contents would be a mix of episodes the BBC have in their archive and ones that they don't.
Assuming the 90+ sample size is correct, that lowers the likely number of potential recovered missing episodes significantly. However, there are a couple of interesting factors about the Zambia market that are worth noting.
Zambian TV (or ZTV) was not the last stop on the distribution chain for Africa for the first round of Hartnell episodes. What that means is that we can pretty much scratch Marco Polo and The Reign of Terror off the list, as those prints would have been sent on to Uganda. However, this works in our favor overall because 44 of those episodes were ones we already had copies of, meaning that anything being returned would likely be from seasons 3 through 6, where 63 of our 71 missing episodes reside. (statistically this means opening any random film canister marked "Doctor Who" we now have a 45% chance of it being a lost episode, as opposed to a 38% chance)
But wait, the numbers get even better from there, because Zambia was the ONLY African nation to purchase Patrick Troughton episodes... and they got them at the very end of the distribution run, meaning that any prints they had of the 12 Second Doctor stories I listed should have been junked or returned to the BBC, they wouldn't have been passed on to another buyer.
The BBC have no record of ever receiving them back, and it's not like anyone was actually enforcing the junking policy, so that's 68 episodes which could very well have been sitting in the back room of the ZTV film storehouse for 40+ years!
Long story short, the entire rumor may be bullshit, but if there really is a mysterious 3 ton shipment of old film that's been returned to the BBC, having it come from Zambia is the best possible news we could have hoped for, especially for Troughton fans.
