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Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Old 01-15-13, 11:55 AM
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin View Post
Relavance & forward motion? The group finds a place to hole up for a bit, a few die, place becomes overrun with zombies. Wash. Rinse. Repeat.

The show is one giant circle, albeit an entertaining one. Stepping outside that circle once in awhile could be interesting.
The funny thing is this is exactly the formula for the success of the award winning comic. It's not wash rinse and repeat, it's called a narrative. What would you suggest? Mutant dogs? A wafer thin model flipping in a tight leather outfit and killing zombies?
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Old 01-15-13, 11:56 AM
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Originally Posted by RocShemp View Post
That's exactly why I think wildcard episodes could work.
They'd have nothing to contribute. They'd be like the "What if?" issues from Marvel.

What if Venom took over The Punisher?

It's a nice little wild card story, but it means nothing to the canon, overall.

I'm glad they never made the wild card episodes consistent.
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Old 01-15-13, 12:09 PM
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
You clearly haven't read The Walking Dead recently.
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Old 01-15-13, 12:10 PM
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Originally Posted by Bill Needle View Post
Kirkman has made some drastic changes to the story a la killing off characters many readers expected to live for a long time. He's not taking prisoners.
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Old 01-15-13, 12:17 PM
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Originally Posted by Terminal View Post
They'd have nothing to contribute. They'd be like the "What if?" issues from Marvel.

What if Venom took over The Punisher?

It's a nice little wild card story, but it means nothing to the canon, overall.

I'm glad they never made the wild card episodes consistent.

Who's to say they would have nothing to contribute? Why not check in on Morgan and Duane? Why not introduce Abraham's group and see them develop? Why not split the group?

You say "what if" doesn't contribute anything and there are plenty of "what if's" that would further along the story, especially given the repetitive nature of the show thus far.

Originally Posted by Terminal View Post
The funny thing is this is exactly the formula for the success of the award winning comic. It's not wash rinse and repeat, it's called a narrative.
You seem to be of the mindset that if it's not in the comic, or doesn't have anything to do with the core group, it's not worth doing which seems shortsighted. Comics are based on repetition and it's easy to swallow once a month for x number of pages. A tv show has a faster pace and needs to grow to mature.

It is absolutely formulaic, award winning or not.. the comic and the show.

Last edited by Michael Corvin; 01-15-13 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 01-15-13, 12:23 PM
  #131  
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin View Post
Who's to say they would have nothing to contribute? Why not check in on Morgan and Duane? Why not introduce Abraham's group and see them develop? Why not split the group?
Why do we need to split up the group? The story is about Rick Grimes. We don't need to visit Abraham yet. The story is on Rick and how the world revolves around Rick, you're of the mind set of deviating from the narrative drastically. One of the reasons Darabont failed.

I'd like to see Duane and Morgan in a one shot. Kirkman had an issue devoted to them for Christmas. But to say we could split time between Rick and Abraham's groups? Come on.

We're already focusing on Rick's group, Tyreese's group, Carl's dilemma, Daryl's dilemma, Andrea's stupid ass dilemma, and the governor, now you want to split up the major storylines? Goodness, no.

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin View Post
You say "what if" doesn't contribute anything and there are plenty of "what if's" that would further along the story, especially given the repetitive nature of the show thus far.
I said the What if's from Marvel were wild card comics that offered nothing to Canon. They were fun stories occasionally, but ultimately meant nothing.

Just like a wild card episode would have.

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin View Post
You seem to be of the mindset that if it's not in the comic, or doesn't have anything to do with the core group, it's not worth doing which seems shortsighted.
Nah, actually I adore the comic and the show as their own entity. I'm a huge fanatic, but I'm glad Darabont's story ideas you seem to be supporting never came to fruition.

P.S. For example, the webisodes "Torn Apart." They were initially going to be an episode, but thankfully were relegated to a web mini series.

Why?

Well, it's interesting to see how Bicycle Girl zombie became Bicycle Girl zombie, but it has no actual effect on the series at all. So a webisode series is much more convenient and sensible.
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Old 01-15-13, 12:29 PM
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Originally Posted by Terminal View Post
Why do we need to split up the group? The story is about Rick Grimes. We don't need to visit Abraham yet. The story is on Rick and how the world revolves around Rick, you're of the mind set of deviating from the narrative drastically. One of the reasons Darabont failed.

I'd like to see Duane and Morgan in a one shot. Kirkman had an issue devoted to them for Christmas. But to say we could split time between Rick and Abraham's groups? Come on.
Deviating drastically? Introducing a character an episode or more prior to coming into contact with Rick's group is drastic? It's a chance to build new characters instead of just introducing T-dog #6 before killing him a week later.

Yeah, there are currently a lot of threads dangling from the finale, but I didn't mean immediately.
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Old 01-15-13, 12:30 PM
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Originally Posted by Michael Corvin View Post
Deviating drastically? Introducing a character an episode or more prior to coming into contact with Rick's group is drastic? It's a chance to build new characters instead of just introducing T-dog #6 before killing him a week later.

Yeah, there are currently a lot of threads dangling from the finale, but I didn't mean immediately.
Rick is the microcosm of The Walking Dead. The story is about the human monster confronting the walking dead. You can't deviate or subtract Rick's importance to the plot.
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Old 01-15-13, 01:30 PM
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Originally Posted by Terminal View Post
They'd have nothing to contribute. They'd be like the "What if?" issues from Marvel.

What if Venom took over The Punisher?

It's a nice little wild card story, but it means nothing to the canon, overall.

I'm glad they never made the wild card episodes consistent.
Except they'd not have been "what if'?" stories. They'd have been side stories that would serve as interesting diversions to mix things up from time to time.
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Old 01-15-13, 01:37 PM
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Originally Posted by RocShemp View Post
Except they'd not have been "what if'?" stories. They'd have been side stories that would serve as interesting diversions to mix things up from time to time.
A diversion? Diversion from what? Since when we do we need a diversion from a show writing in multiple sub-plots with multiple characters?
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Old 01-15-13, 01:45 PM
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

I'm looking forward to the zombie Nikki and Paulo episode.
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Old 01-15-13, 01:47 PM
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Typically on a television production, those one-shot, self-contained episodes are included to give the creative talent a break. Usually the main actors are secondary players on those episodes and it gives the production schedule a little leeway. That is why many shows use them, particularly on the hour-long dramas that run a full season.
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Old 01-15-13, 01:51 PM
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
Typically on a television production, those one-shot, self-contained episodes are included to give the creative talent a break. Usually the main actors are secondary players on those episodes and it gives the production schedule a little leeway. That is why many shows use them, particularly on the hour-long dramas that run a full season.
What shows have done that? Mind you, I watch very little television dramas, but I never recall seeing hour long shows having wild cards. Supernatural had none as far as I know, Smallville had none as far as I knew, Heroes had none, I really don't remember seeing random episodes from shows I enjoy about new characters who appear for one episode.
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Old 01-15-13, 02:09 PM
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Originally Posted by Supermallet View Post
You clearly haven't read The Walking Dead recently.
Why? None of the characters I've mentioned are dead.

And if you think anything serious will happen to Carl, you're living in a fucking dreamworld.
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Old 01-15-13, 02:24 PM
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Originally Posted by Terminal View Post
What shows have done that?
Doctor Who, for one. And one of the best episodes of that series is one that the main characters appear in for only a couple of minutes.

Lost is another.
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Old 01-15-13, 02:26 PM
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Originally Posted by Josh-da-man View Post
Doctor Who, for one. And one of the best episodes of that series is one that the main characters appear in for only a couple of minutes.

Lost is another.
Gotcha. Never seen those.
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Old 01-15-13, 02:27 PM
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Originally Posted by Dragon Tattoo View Post
Why? None of the characters I've mentioned are dead.

And if you think anything serious will happen to Carl, you're living in a fucking dreamworld.
Well the current arc is focusing heavily on Rick and Carl's relationship, so killing Carl at this juncture would be, as the kids say: retarded.
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Old 01-15-13, 04:20 PM
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Originally Posted by Terminal View Post
The whole point of The Walking Dead is that when Rick wakes up from his coma, the world has ended, shit has gone down, and guess what? Humanity has lost the battle against the walking dead.

If Kirkman wanted to show us how it all went down, he would have.
I find the stuff about societal collapse kind of fascinating. In most post-apocalyptic stories, it tends to be beside the point, because it's all about the setting and what happens, but if Darabont had wanted to show some of that, I would've found it interesting.

Originally Posted by Terminal View Post
Kirkman has never guaranteed these people will ever live long beyond the comic's ending.
It looks like the comic has no ending in mind thought.

Originally Posted by Terminal View Post
It's not wash rinse and repeat, it's called a narrative.
Again, though, it has no endpoint. A narrative usually takes you from point A to point B, with a beginning, a middle, and an end. Kirkman and this show are obviously more interested in how these things never end, in creating something that can sustain itself repeatedly so he can explore permutations of the basic premise. The Walking Dead is simply about their day-to-day struggle to survive, there's no goal in mind, no broader scope indicating an end to the apocalypse or what happens outside of the characters we know, and it's obvious that it has no interest in that. It locks onto a group of characters and follows them.
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Old 01-15-13, 05:03 PM
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Originally Posted by hanshotfirst113 View Post
I find the stuff about societal collapse kind of fascinating. In most post-apocalyptic stories, it tends to be beside the point, because it's all about the setting and what happens, but if Darabont had wanted to show some of that, I would've found it interesting.
Watch The Mist. Darabont told the story of a father and son looking for his wife in a post apocalyptic waste land. I don't need to see that again.

Originally Posted by hanshotfirst113 View Post
It looks like the comic has no ending in mind thought.
Kirkman has said he has it planned to end some time, but right now it's become such a cash cow, he'd be foolish to end it. The Walking Dead could go on forever if he wanted it to. If I had a cash cow like TWD, I'd milk it for all its worth, and then some.

Originally Posted by hanshotfirst113 View Post
Again, though, it has no endpoint. A narrative usually takes you from point A to point B, with a beginning, a middle, and an end.
Hence why the comic is an ongoing series.

Originally Posted by hanshotfirst113 View Post
Kirkman and this show are obviously more interested in how these things never end, in creating something that can sustain itself repeatedly so he can explore permutations of the basic premise. The Walking Dead is simply about their day-to-day struggle to survive, there's no goal in mind, no broader scope indicating an end to the apocalypse or what happens outside of the characters we know, and it's obvious that it has no interest in that. It locks onto a group of characters and follows them.
No goal? How about survival?

It's not like the zombies will suddenly die out, it's not like there's a cure.

The drama is what's fueled the series.

I remember in a letters section a reader asked if the zombies will ever evolve or become smarter?

Kirkman replied that the zombies will always be monsters. The only thing keeping humans from surviving is other humans.
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Old 01-15-13, 07:41 PM
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Originally Posted by Terminal View Post
What shows have done that? Mind you, I watch very little television dramas, but I never recall seeing hour long shows having wild cards. Supernatural had none as far as I know, Smallville had none as far as I knew, Heroes had none, I really don't remember seeing random episodes from shows I enjoy about new characters who appear for one episode.
I am positive that both Smallville and Supernatural had something of the type, in their long histories. Remember the one episode that was basically a Chloe Sullivan solo episode? That was it for Smallville. Most network shows will use the side episode and focus on a secondary character, instead of going completely away from the featured players.

Supernatural did it very recently, when most of the episode was a self-contained story about three college students that gain supernatural powers. Sam & Dean hardly appeared in the episode. Almost all hour-long dramas do it at least once a season, though network orders shrink every year so that is usually the first episode to get cut.
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Old 01-15-13, 07:44 PM
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
I am positive that both Smallville and Supernatural had something of the type, in their long histories. Remember the one episode that was basically a Chloe Sullivan solo episode? That was it for Smallville. Most network shows will use the side episode and focus on a secondary character, instead of going completely away from the featured players.

Supernatural did it very recently, when most of the episode was a self-contained story about three college students that gain supernatural powers. Sam & Dean hardly appeared in the episode. Almost all hour-long dramas do it at least once a season, though network orders shrink every year so that is usually the first episode to get cut.
Smallville and Supernatural have done many self contained episodes. Fringe is another show that did a few self contained episodes as well especially in the 1st couple of seasons.

In fact Smallville did a 2 Hour TV movie in Season 9 called "Absolute Justice" about the Justice Society of America.

I can't name every single serialized drama that has done it, but many have done 1 off episodes.
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Old 01-15-13, 07:58 PM
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Originally Posted by PhantomStranger View Post
I am positive that both Smallville and Supernatural had something of the type, in their long histories. Remember the one episode that was basically a Chloe Sullivan solo episode? That was it for Smallville. Most network shows will use the side episode and focus on a secondary character, instead of going completely away from the featured players.

Supernatural did it very recently, when most of the episode was a self-contained story about three college students that gain supernatural powers. Sam & Dean hardly appeared in the episode. Almost all hour-long dramas do it at least once a season, though network orders shrink every year so that is usually the first episode to get cut.
I stand corrected then.
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Old 01-15-13, 07:59 PM
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Originally Posted by DJariya View Post
Smallville and Supernatural have done many self contained episodes. Fringe is another show that did a few self contained episodes as well especially in the 1st couple of seasons.

In fact Smallville did a 2 Hour TV movie in Season 9 called "Absolute Justice" about the Justice Society of America.

I can't name every single serialized drama that has done it, but many have done 1 off episodes.
The JSA episode involved Clark/Uber-Man to a heavy degree.
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Old 01-15-13, 08:14 PM
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Originally Posted by Terminal View Post
Watch The Mist. Darabont told the story of a father and son looking for his wife in a post apocalyptic waste land. I don't need to see that again.
I've seen it. Darabont shot that film with the TV crew he'd worked with on The Shield. It's very quick and dirty, but the character bits in it and the studies of mob dynamics are really fascinating.

Kirkman has said he has it planned to end some time, but right now it's become such a cash cow, he'd be foolish to end it. The Walking Dead could go on forever if he wanted it to. If I had a cash cow like TWD, I'd milk it for all its worth, and then some.
You could play devil's advocate and argue that perhaps it's being carried on longer than the story would perhaps allow because of that. Not having read the comic that far, I can't attest to that, but I can see someone making the argument. I come in and out of comics and Manga largely for that reason, I get tired of the endless nature of stuff. I worry there may come a point when the money supersedes the creativity.

Hence why the comic is an ongoing series.
So were most of the Vertigo series, but most plotted out with an endpoint in mind.

No goal? How about survival?
I know, I'm just saying that basically, the only story to tell is of the characters attempting to survive from day to day. There isn't any clear destination, threat, etc. Mazzarra has sort of changed that this season with the Governor storyline, giving the narrative some suspense because he might find the group and something might happen, and the two narrative strands might collide, which they have.

It's not like the zombies will suddenly die out, it's not like there's a cure.
You'd think that eventually all of the zombies would be put down once everyone figured out to aim for the head. Obviously, since zombies are fictional, they can operate however the narrative demands, so the supply can be unlimited. But some sort of arc would be the characters working towards a cure, working towards some location to meet up with other survivors to rebuild civilization, etc. That's not The Walking Dead's game, it's all about the survival story and the soap opera of the characters in the various groups. I just think it might begin to get repetitive. Obviously, the show is young, and isn't on often, so that might not get to be a problem soon, but I've mostly stuck around for the FX work and production values rather than truly compelling storytelling at this point. I do like the characters though, thanks largely to the performances of the actors. Season three has been a decided improvement in regard to the storytelling itself. Maybe it's just because I'm a Romero fan and like how he always laced his blood and guts with strong social commentary, but I find the overall dynamics of how society collapsed just as interesting as the interpersonal drama. The Walking Dead has a TV show budget, of course, and it can only open things up so much.

The drama is what's fueled the series.
I think it gives it a relatablity. This is a premise as old as genre fiction itself-28 Days Later, I Am Legend, Dawn of the Dead, and on and on. I think the interpersonal dynamics and characters are interesting, lets hope they stay that way.

Kirkman replied that the zombies will always be monsters. The only thing keeping humans from surviving is other humans.
Again, the essential thesis of all of these stories.
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Old 01-15-13, 08:20 PM
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Re: Another "Walking Dead" showrunner steps down

Kirkman has wanted this to be ongoing since way before the comic was famous, let alone the brand itself. Sure the money may be a contributing factor now, but I doubt the integrity of the comic has been compromised, it's not like he all of a sudden introduced Daryl and put him front and center.

It doesn't matter if the Vertigo stories have an end game in mind, it's the way they were plotted. Hell, Willingham plans to keep doing Fables for as long as possible as well, so it's not just Kirkman. That's a hard thing to pull off with a creator owned series.
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