People here (and a bunch of other sites) worship The Wire as though it's the be all, end all of television shows. I think it's really good but I've enjoyed a bunch of other shows over it.

With the exception of my top choice, I will limit it to shows that have either finished their run or don't look like they'll be getting another season anytime soon, because with shows like Breaking Bad and Mad Men, my opinion could drop if the conclusions fall on their face.

And other than my top choice, the rest aren't in a specific order:

Doctor Who
Twin Peaks
Monty Python's Flying Circus
The West Wing
The Thick of It
Star Trek (I'm going to cheat here and count TOS, TNG, and DS9 as one entry)
Aeon Flux
Daria
Columbo
Your Show of Shows

Of course, that list doesn't include many many many other great series that I would count among my favorites (Buffy, Angel, Beavis and Butthead, The Office (UK), Extras, QI, Jam, The Day Today, Brass Eye, Seinfeld, Curb Your Enthusiasm, Deadwood, Carnivale, The X-Files, etc. etc.). The Wire would be pretty far down on my list of personal favorites, but it was a well made series that had some issues. I will never understand the cult-like love people have for it. I don't even think it's as good as The Shield, personally.


So the only way I can say a show is good is if it makes my top 10? Do you know how much television has aired since the 1950's? If I could only endorse shows in my top 10 I'd be missing out on an unbelievable amount of incredible television.

As for BB, I didn't say it was flawless. I said it hasn't been uneven since season one. I feel like that the show has been incredibly consistent in quality, including this season.

Nothing can be all things to all people. Not everyone loves the Wire. Many people dont like Citizen Kane and think The Godfather is boring. Great art basically never garners universal praise, nor should it.

Personally I don't think BB is in the same class as the Wire but its a great show.

You don't have to read this as "Which of these two shows is the best ever?" it could just be a comparison between two critically acclaimed crime dramas with a strong drug element.

I loved The Wire, I loved The Shield...but I fucking LIVE for Breaking Bad. I can rewatch it at the drop of a hat, talk about it endlessly and cannot wait for the final episodes. I don't think they'll botch the ending, but right now if it continues as it has, for me, it is no contest. TV's Best Show.

I think they're about even in terms of quality but Breaking Bad has an edge by being the more entertaining of the two.

The only difference in the shows is that people actually watch Breaking Bad (though still low compared to worse shows). How often is Season 5 the most watched season of a serial? (up 50% from last season).

Absolutely agree with this and I'd have Deadwood above it, as well.

For me, no. I've immensely enjoyed the ride of BB so far but I'm not even sure I will own the series once it finishes. Depends on the finale.

The Wire I find infinitely rewatchable.

Interesting that this thread came up as last weekend, before the season finale, I was discussing with some friends that aren't into BB just how good it is. First question they asked? 'How does it compare to the Wire?'

I love the Wire and consider it my favorite show. So out of respect for that, I can't say that BB is better than the Wire until BB completes it's run. With that said, if Breaking Bad keeps up it's pace and gives up a great ending (let's be honest, the ending can make or break it) I can see it surpassing the Wire IMO.

No. BB is a great show - well written well acted. But The Wire had a scope that made it incomparable.

I do agree with this. Breaking Bad is more fun than The Wire. Breaking Bad gives me the feeling of a show like 24 in how it keeps me on the edge of my seat, but also has a depth to it that allows it to be compared to much better shows than the likes of 24.

Far be it for me to say someone's opinion is invalid, but I think there is a difference in recognizing something is quality, but just knowing it isn't for you, and then just saying something that is largely praised is "mediocre". For instance I do not like The Godfather. I've tried to watch it multiple times, but it's just not a movie for me. I don't like it, but I also can recognize why so many people do.

Does that mean someone can't say something like Jaws, Godfather, The Beatles, The Sopranos, *put your largely praised anything here* is mediocre or awful? Of course not. It's just hard to take such a stance serious without at least some support showing why one feels that way (which I realize wasn't the point of this thread, and I'm speaking in more generic terms).

No. But the show that has is Mad Men. The Wire and Mad Men are very similar in composition and share a lot of very similar story telling devices. But Mad Men seems to perfectly balance all the things The Wire had plus making excellent use of cinematography, something The Wire did not do (although, it might not have needed it).

Breaking Bad, while excellent, does not come close to either show. I suppose that possibly due to the subject matter, I have this opinion. Breaking Bad as well shares a lot if similar things with The Wire...especially in scope of secondary characters, dangling plots and season long arcs.

As it stands today (mind you this can change) I would put Mad Men at the top, The Wire second, Breaking Bad third (which is tied with Homicide, one of my all time favorites).

I don't wanna add to the fire but I think BB is head and shoulders better than the Wire. At least for me the Wire doesn't make my top 3 of HBO series. I thought the Wire was great but Sopranos, Six Feet Under and Deadwood would be my HBO tops and I would put the Wire right their next up with Oz. Not counting comedies.

I think BB has just about taken over my #1 spot of all shows on all networks over the Sopranos.

Both are different examples of a rare type of excellence in TV productions.

If forced to choose I would rank 'Breaking Bad' as my preference.

Just to satisfy my own curiosity, Oz, really? While I did like Oz, it got a little too soap opera-y for me towards the middle of the fourth season. I am really curious about your opinion on that.

You can also say The Sopranos got that way after the 3rd season. I really thought every season after that got progressively worse and lazy and only the last half of the last season redeemed The Sopranos. Johnny Cakes/Vito nonsense, AJ's whiny bitchfest every other episode, etc. It's still one of my favorite shows ever but it clearly dropped off in quality for a while before regaining much of what it had in it's first 3 seasons in the last half of the last season.

Question for those who watched and loved the Wire--what are your thoughts about the way it was filmed and the overall aesthetics, as that's not something I ever hear anyone discuss.

I only watched about 2.5 seasons of the show--I may try and jump back in but I wasn't an overall fan of how the show seemed to be much more about the plot/cases than its characters (I feel like I know more about what makes secondary characters like Skylar or Hank tick more than I ever did with principles like McNulty)--but I never think about the Wire as being anything special to look at. I'm sure that was the intention, maybe to give it more a documentary feel.

Granted, you can't compare shots of the inner city to sweeping shots of the Albuquerque desert, but there was nothing memorable that stood out visually when I think back on the Wire.

Colors, too, stand out to me far more on Breaking Bad than the Wire (for example, Marie's house is much more littered with purple tones, a choice intentionally done by Vince Gilligan to depict certain character emotions or hit certain emotional beats with the audience).

Again, I never saw all of the Wire, but Breaking Bad seems to not just shoot the actors, but use the camera, editing, and wardrobe, colors and more to specifically tell the story in a way the script cannot do. Personally, I never got that same impression with The Wire.

Speaking of The Sopranos, is it just me or was it a bit weird that every season some of Tony's previously never mentioned lost childhood friends would magically get out of prison? Every season premiere like clockwork. I'm currently midway through season 5 on that one though and it's inching towards my top 5. Even though they stole Edie Falco from Oz.

Oz used to be my number one show, to the point where I even saw most of the episodes twice over. But as mentioned earlier, the stuff after halfway through season 4 really brought it down. Also the editing looked like it was done on iMovie but I kind of like that. What else I really loved about it was that virtually everything occurred inside the prison walls. Anything outside was either directly related to something in the prison such as the reason for incarceration. Everything else they learn from the news on TV.

We never see the home life of McManus or Sister Pete, and that itself is impressive, that it is contained all within those walls.

I agree with you on this. Breaking Bad is beautiful to look at. I've heard someone refer to the cooking scenes as Meth porn because the show makes the process of making meth look beautiful and intoxicating. Breaking Bad definitely is striving to be visually striking.

The way The Wire was shot was nothing special. I think most shots were bordering on pedestrian, but I think that was intentional. The main crux of The Wire is that what we were seeing was the way things are. I think if it took a more artful approach to how it was shot, it would add a barrier to the immersion I felt when watching those stories.

The other show mentioned in this threat, The Shield, I think also had a very deliberate style of shooting. That show had a very palpable grain and darkness to it, and a lot of the shots felt cramped and low to the ground. Things that mirrored Vic.

Just different approaching to story telling. But yes, Breaking Bad is crazy interesting to look at.

I'm sure we will see more BB threads in the next following year, because the show is that great. Is BB better than the Bible?

Now about the question by the OP, it's all about Lost bitches!!!!

No, seriously, different shows, we have to wait until BB is finish to rank it. I was late to The Wire party, just watched the entire series this year, and it became and instant classic for me, top 5 or top 3 even.

Everyone is talking about the ending. Am I alone in thinking that while the ending is important, a bad ending won't totally destroy how I view the show?

I think Sons of Anarchy has gone off the rails, and I've ditch that show, but those initial seasons are ones I still hold in high esteem. I think the first season of Deadwood is sublime. The second season is great, and the 3rd season to be enjoyable, but weak. However, that 3rd season doesn't hurt my view of the 1st at all.

I love Breaking Bad and have since the pilot aired. And while I agree that it's the best show currently on TV, it doesn't make my All-Time Top 5.

Too often the story has been driven forward by near dei ex machina and coincidences. That never happened on The Wire, where everything unfolded so beautifully organic. And it was so much more complex and interwoven.

And it hasn't surpassed The Shield in terms of excitement, intensity and acting.

Breaking Bad might be the most visually beautiful show ever though.

Sons of Anarchy has sort of the same trajectory as Oz. Sons went off the rails earlier (and who knows may subsequently recover), but the first season and most of the second season really were great.

Sometimes the ending does ruin everything. That's where I stand with LOST. With other shows, the ending matters much less. I think the expectations created by those hucksters running LOST substantially tainted that product for me, though. I read a lot from them while watching the show, and I feel angry at the crap they said compared to what we got more than anything.