sherm42

Again, you are arguing that the producers of a game show have less rights to choose their target audience than a scripted show. Why? There is no reason for a distinction.

As for the Leykis case, it was a first amendment issue. The anti-SLAPP statutes are mostly based on first amendment rights. The case is named "INGELS v. WESTWOOD ONE BROADCASTING SERVICES INC" and can be found on Google. It's is not directly on point as to the casting of a TV show, but does deal with target audiences and the first amendment.

I really don't think that age and race are really that different. There are a lot of shows that target only one or different races. B.E.T. is an entire channel devoted to targeting one race. Should that be unlawful discrimination? Of course not. If a show wants to target a particular race, it should be able to. A court saying that it cannot does implicate the contents of speech.

Red Dog

Age and race are different, that's why. Look up equal protection and class status. You'll see the scrutiny that's applied to each.

Do you really think if TPIR said we'll only call white people or let white people in the studio (that could be called) they would survive a lawsuit based on the First Amendment? I'm sure you don't believe that. Game shows don't have as much leeway as the producers of a scripted show. That's the reality of the law (not that I necessarily agree with it).

Red Dog

And I took a cursory look at the case you cited, and I think this is a key passage:

I don't think anyone is going to mistake a political talk show with The Bachelor nor a game show. Well, maybe not Hannity or Olberman.

sherm42

As I said, the case is not directly on point. However, it also does not hold that it is the outer limit of First Amendment protections.

I just don't see the Bachelor case as clear cut as you do, nor is it the TPIR scenario you outline. I think that courts would be loathe to say that such decisions are unlawful.

Where is the line? How do you determine what shows can use race as a factor in casting and which should not? Who gets to decide? What are the guidelines? Would it only apply to broadcast TV where the FCC has jurisdiction? Do you apply such standards to cable and pay channels?

This case would be creating an entirely new line jurisprudence that does affect speech.

Either way, I gotta go. Peace out.

Red Dog

I don't think it's clear cut, but given discrimination law (again, not that I agree with how far it's gone), it doesn't surprise me that someone has brought suit, and that there may be merit to it. I definitely don't know where the line is (if it were up to me, I'd set the line that the 14th amendment doesn't apply to private actors, regardless of the circumstances, but then many people will yell that I'm a racist, but it's clear line nonetheless). And I do think there is likely a difference between OTA and cable, like there is in other areas.

GuessWho

The First Amendment prevents the government from making laws that kill free speech.

ABC isn't the government.

Pizza

It's a stupid reality show. (and yes I sometimes watch it.) I hardly expect it to be politically correct.

Red Dog

The funny thing is that I look at Survivor and how they cast black or gay people. For gays, they go for as flamboyant as possible and for blacks, they go for the most confrontational or nutty as possible.

FanofComedy

I'm black and this sounds so dumb to me. It used to be a dating show on a black cable channel called TVOne and all the people on the show were black.

The show was called..."Get the Hookup". Makes no sense

Howie2000

I think these shows don't have black contestants because the white liberals who Produce them assume Molly from Sheyboygan and other middle america ladies would be less likely to watch this show even though the evidence does not indicate that.

Howie2000

x

Network tv is always a couple year behind the curve of things.

MikahC

Just to clarify, I'm pretty sure the lawsuit is about minority leads, not contestants. I'm not sure if your statement above applies to your thoughts on leads as well. Personally, I feel Americans would be less likely to watch with a black lead, but that's a prejudice based on my own anecdotal evidence. I'm open to being proven wrong.

The difference between a MTV show pairing up younger people across racial lines and The Bachelor is millions of viewers. You can be more cutting edge when 1 million viewers is acceptable than when 10 million are expected. The advertising revenue ABC pulls in from one episode of The Bachelor would probably cover the whole season of said MTV dating show. ABC's demos for The Bachelor are quite different from MTV's demos.

resinrats

I'm just amazed that there are 23 seasons between the Bachelor/Bachelorette shows according to the article. Really? Unless they have multiple seasons each year, I really don't remember them being on for a decade or more.

PacMan2006

Pure Devil's Advocate here...

If you're a white person, and they one day cast The Bachelor as black, and let's say every female contestant outside of 2-3 are black, and you refuse to watch the show (assuming you often watched it before), does that make you prejudice or bigoted?

Because with the way the television landscape currently is, and has been for years, black people and other minorities are conditioned to watching "white entertainment." It's normal for them, whether it's The Bachelor or Survivor or NCIS or whatever.

I'm not saying Mad Men's main demographic is black people 18-34, but certainly black people watch "white shows."

I guess I'm just wondering if there reverse here for some people is true. If The Bachelor or Bachelorette was mostly full of black contestants, would you be as interested in watching? And if not, why?

FanofComedy

In all honesty I;m black and don 't watch the Bachelor/Bachelorette because it's mostly white but it's not because I don't like white people because I;m a fan of white shows like Friends and Seinfeld. I think when it comes to dating shows I just prefer watching my own race.

MikahC

I remember some racial divide discussions during the time Living Single and Friends aired. There was much discussion over them essentially being the same show but with black vs white casts. But while Living Single struggled in the ratings, Friends actors ended up getting million dollar/episode contracts. What I most remember from the disucsion is there was a chart of the most popular shows in white households vs black households. It really was a completely different list. Living Single was (I think -- don't quote me) #1 in black households. And there was only 1 show that showed up Top 10 on both lists (I think it may have been Cosby).

But as long as someone mentions "black dating show" and "Flavor of Love" is the first thing that comes to mind, there's going to be a gap. The biggest loss of The Cosby Show going off the air is the significant exposure it gave to the reality that there's more to being black than Thug Life and Hip Hop. But at the end of the day, just like with Cosby, it's up to the black community to present themselves in a positive light and not depend on others to do it for them.

BTW, Shonda Rimes, a black producer/director/writer, has 3 shows on ABC in prime time. Grey's had a black lead (before he got fired), Private Practice had 2 black leads (before 1 left of her own accord), and Scandal has a black lead. ABC's all about the money. So while I find the cultural/social issue the lawsuit brings up are interesting, I ultimately think that dog doesn't hunt.

FanofComedy

I think both shows aired at the same time too, at 8pm on Thursday Nights

wearetheborg

I've never watched "reality" tv or game shows, and I would continue not watching it if it switched over to black contestants.

Shows I like, I dont care about race. Loved "smart guy" and I like Gus/Turk/Carla/Wallace etc colored characters.

Bluelitespecial

http://www.realityblurred.com/realit...suit-dismissed the lawsuit has been dismissed.

sherm42

I was right. First Amendment protections in casting decisions.

This story has more details:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2...t-its-concerns

DRG

LOL, the ad that pops up on that page: "Break the Rules of White". A Tide ad featuring Betty White.