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The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

Old 05-23-11, 12:16 PM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

Originally Posted by bootsy View Post
?
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Old 05-23-11, 12:26 PM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

I was starting to quote almost everyone, but I think it's easier to just put my thoughts.

In shows like this, where the pace is slow, where there's a lot of buildup, you have to be really smart to deliver. So, we have spent at least 3-4 episodes to Bennett being the main suspect. Last night it seems he wasn't involved in the killing of Rosie. If The Killing is a good show, that shouldn't be a dead end. That should be related in a strong way to Rosie's death. For me it's cheating if they spend so much time with a suspect and there's no relation. It's OK to have red herrings in this kind of shows, but you don't spend so much time just to fill out time.

And yeah, they have to find who killed Rosie this season. They still have a lot of time for that.
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Old 05-23-11, 01:25 PM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

Originally Posted by onebyone View Post
However, more shots of Rchmond getting hit in the head with a basketball would be great.
I was waiting for that Patton Oswalt looking dude to ask if he was gonna "squirt a few".
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Old 05-23-11, 02:01 PM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

Originally Posted by conscience View Post
?
Your post about Bennett being gone. It's not that deep man.
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Old 05-23-11, 02:10 PM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

Originally Posted by Raul3 View Post
I was starting to quote almost everyone, but I think it's easier to just put my thoughts.

In shows like this, where the pace is slow, where there's a lot of buildup, you have to be really smart to deliver. So, we have spent at least 3-4 episodes to Bennett being the main suspect. Last night it seems he wasn't involved in the killing of Rosie. If The Killing is a good show, that shouldn't be a dead end. That should be related in a strong way to Rosie's death. For me it's cheating if they spend so much time with a suspect and there's no relation. It's OK to have red herrings in this kind of shows, but you don't spend so much time just to fill out time.

And yeah, they have to find who killed Rosie this season. They still have a lot of time for that.
And that is my fear, my disappointment in the show, that they have already failed in walking that tightrope. It appears they just randomly introduce new angles and stories simply in order to take up time. And if they are going to tie everything together at the end, it sure seems like it is going to be extremely contrived. Hope I am wrong.
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Old 05-23-11, 02:16 PM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

Signal was cutting in and out during this due to weather. I got the gist of everything that happened with Bennet and with the missing girl, but was there resolution on Richmond's basketball shot/the money? I saw him take the shot but don't think I saw another scene with him after that.
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Old 05-23-11, 02:17 PM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

Originally Posted by Geofferson View Post
AMC very close to renewing this.
From the ratings, it looks like they have gone down almost each week. I don't think a lot of the audience will be back if they renew it.
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Old 05-23-11, 02:19 PM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

Originally Posted by yourlocalcinema View Post
Signal was cutting in and out during this due to weather. I got the gist of everything that happened with Bennet and with the missing girl, but was there resolution on Richmond's basketball shot/the money? I saw him take the shot but don't think I saw another scene with him after that.
It went to commercial after Darren took the shot. A later scene showed him with the basketball, which obviously means he made the shot and got the money he needed since he said he would keep the ball if he made it.

I think it's funny that some people are actually unhappy with the show and complaining about it now.

Everyone who is choosing to watch this committed to a 13 hour TV series, not miniseries or 2 hour movie. As I said in a previous thread, they are trying to take a realistic approach to telling the story of this murder investigation. Sarah, Holder and the whole Seattle PD are going to go through all kinds of loops, dead ends Red herrings, which happens all the time in real investigations.

If you want something that will be wrapped up nice and tidy, watch any network procedural.

Last edited by DJariya; 05-23-11 at 02:27 PM.
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Old 05-23-11, 02:22 PM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

Originally Posted by yourlocalcinema View Post
was there resolution on Richmond's basketball shot/the money? I saw him take the shot but don't think I saw another scene with him after that.
Richmond told the guy if he made the shot that the guy would have to give him the $5 million AND the basketball. I don't think they ever showed him taking the shot, in full at least. But later they showed Richmond in his office with the basketball. So he made the shot.
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Old 05-23-11, 02:29 PM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

The punching the rock thing was so stupid, but I laughed.
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Old 05-23-11, 02:50 PM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

Originally Posted by DJariya View Post
It went to commercial after Darren took the shot. A later scene showed him with the basketball, which obviously means he made the shot and got the money he needed since he said he would keep the ball if he made it.

I think it's funny that some people are actually unhappy with the show and complaining about it now.

Everyone who is choosing to watch this committed to a 13 hour TV series, not miniseries or 2 hour movie. As I said in a previous thread, they are trying to take a realistic approach to telling the story of this murder investigation. Sarah, Holder and the whole Seattle PD are going to go through all kinds of loops, dead ends Red herrings, which happens all the time in real investigations.

If you want something that will be wrapped up nice and tidy, watch any network procedural.
And this silly response is one of the reasons why I, and likely others, have failed to post our discontent earlier. See, I think it is funny that you feel people who criticise only do so due to our inferior ability to watch and understand an ongoing TV show, that we really felt all our answers would and should be spoon fed us in a quick and tidy package. That is both insulting and misses the point of what many, (and evidently a great many based on ratings), are saying about this show. It isn't that they are going too slow, or taking too realistic of an approach, rather it is that they are doing a poor job at both of those.

Personally, I am the type of person who, unless something is epically bad or offensive, will see what I start through to the end. I will with this show. However, where I see potential and a very intriguing concept, I see mediocre execution. That is the shame. Further, if we don't voice our concerns and criticisms, how can anything ever improve?
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Old 05-23-11, 02:57 PM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

Originally Posted by Pharoh View Post
And this silly response is one of the reasons why I, and likely others, have failed to post our discontent earlier. See, I think it is funny that you feel people who criticise only do so due to our inferior ability to watch and understand an ongoing TV show, that we really felt all our answers would and should be spoon fed us in a quick and tidy package. That is both insulting and misses the point of what many, (and evidently a great many based on ratings), are saying about this show. It isn't that they are going too slow, or taking too realistic of an approach, rather it is that they are doing a poor job at both of those.

Personally, I am the type of person who, unless something is epically bad or offensive, will see what I start through to the end. I will with this show. However, where I see potential and a very intriguing concept, I see mediocre execution. That is the shame. Further, if we don't voice our concerns and criticisms, how can anything ever improve?
Okay I could have phrased my argument a little better. So if I came across as insulting, that wasn't my intention.

But, I think they have done a good job setting up the story arc and introducing us to all the characters. The "Slow" storytelling complaint is obviously very subjective.

Alot of Police investigations take months, if not years to solve. With this series being set up around a 13 day/hour investigation, I think they are trying to give a TV audience a more realistic perspective on the frustrations, loops that detectives go through. Every Police investigation could have a million different angles and clues. And we are a 1st hand witness to the emotions that everyone is feeling including the families and the Cops. The leads Sarah and Holder are obviously very flawed characters and rather than making them a caricature of Cops and Detectives we've seen in the past, I think the writers are trying to make us feel some empathy for them. And I think they have done a decent job at all. It's dramatic television, you have to go the viewer a little more than a straight forward detective thriller. The execution is far from perfect, but it still works IMO. I know you were just stating your frustrations as a TV viewer and that's fine.

Last edited by DJariya; 05-23-11 at 03:07 PM.
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Old 05-23-11, 03:03 PM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

Yeah, well said Pharoh.

Although I'm still on the side of the writers, I still they can pull it, although so far the delivery hasn't been perfect. And it's OK to have different opinions, if you just don't say that the show sucks but really tell the parts you think are missing.

And I think the opinions are also split among the main critics (from magazines and entertainment sites online), so it's not like everybody loves the show. I'n almost sure if the show goes for a second season they will make some changes.
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Old 05-23-11, 03:29 PM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

Originally Posted by DJariya View Post
Okay I could have phrased my argument a little better. So if I came across as insulting, that wasn't my intention.

But, I think they have done a good job setting up the story arc and introducing us to all the characters. The "Slow" storytelling complaint is obviously very subjective.

Alot of Police investigations take months, if not years to solve. With this series being set up around a 13 day/hour investigation, I think they are trying to give a TV audience a more realistic perspective on the frustrations, loops that detectives go through. Every Police investigation could have a million different angles and clues. And we are a 1st hand witness to the emotions that everyone is feeling including the families and the Cops. The leads Sarah and Holder are obviously very flawed characters and rather than making them a caricature of Cops and Detectives we've seen in the past, I think the writers are trying to make us feel some empathy for them. And I think they have done a decent job at all. It's dramatic television, you have to go the viewer a little more than a straight forward detective thriller. The execution is far from perfect, but it still works IMO. I know you were just stating your frustrations as a TV viewer and that's fine.
Originally Posted by Raul3 View Post
Yeah, well said Pharoh.

Although I'm still on the side of the writers, I still they can pull it, although so far the delivery hasn't been perfect. And it's OK to have different opinions, if you just don't say that the show sucks but really tell the parts you think are missing.

And I think the opinions are also split among the main critics (from magazines and entertainment sites online), so it's not like everybody loves the show. I'n almost sure if the show goes for a second season they will make some changes.
DJariya, no problems. And let me reiterate that I hope I am wrong, and that Raul3 is correct, that the writer will pull it out.


I would like to point out one of my recent objections. I agree that a real investigation would have many angles and that the writers are trying to portray all of those, while also humansing both the police and Rosie's family. Therefore, I don't get the need for the whole other missing girl angle. There should be enough to keep viewers involved, illuminate the characters more, and move the story forward without adding a whole new element that serves none of those purposes. Granted, I am only speaking as to what we so far have witnessed, and accept this could change in future episodes.


And I do have a question though for those who have seen the Danish version. How does the US version compare in terms of mood and atmosphere?
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Old 05-23-11, 03:37 PM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

I do agree with you as I said in my original comment about the episode about the Somali girl angle. That was a big WTF moment for me. Obviously it has something to do with Bennett and Muhammed, but I don't get how it ties into Rosie or if was even really needed. Who knows, maybe it will be cleared up next week.
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Old 05-23-11, 03:45 PM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

Originally Posted by bootsy View Post
Your post about Bennett being gone. It's not that deep man.
That old tv cliche of someone fighting for their life in a hospital bed (or being in a coma) after a brutal attack could come into play. It has plenty of times before - who knows.

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Old 05-23-11, 06:10 PM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

Originally Posted by DJariya View Post
Alot of Police investigations take months, if not years to solve. With this series being set up around a 13 day/hour investigation, I think they are trying to give a TV audience a more realistic perspective on the frustrations, loops that detectives go through. Every Police investigation could have a million different angles and clues. And we are a 1st hand witness to the emotions that everyone is feeling including the families and the Cops. The leads Sarah and Holder are obviously very flawed characters and rather than making them a caricature of Cops and Detectives we've seen in the past, I think the writers are trying to make us feel some empathy for them. And I think they have done a decent job at all. It's dramatic television, you have to go the viewer a little more than a straight forward detective thriller. The execution is far from perfect, but it still works IMO. I know you were just stating your frustrations as a TV viewer and that's fine.
Well, the Killing isn't the first show to draw out an investigation over an entire season. The Wire did this masterfully, every episode was incredibly engaging and overall the series was a masterpiece.

There just doesn't seem to be any stakes raised in the show. There won't be any consequences if they don't solve the crime.
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Old 05-23-11, 07:01 PM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

Originally Posted by DJariya View Post
I do agree with you as I said in my original comment about the episode about the Somali girl angle. That was a big WTF moment for me. Obviously it has something to do with Bennett and Muhammed, but I don't get how it ties into Rosie or if was even really needed. Who knows, maybe it will be cleared up next week.
The way I see it, it doesn't tie into Rosie, other than making them seem like the girl was Rosie and not the Somali. I can agree on some complains but don't get the issue here. I don't see why it would continue to be part of the show. It was a cool way to fool the cops and the viewers, not that is done with. It's OK as long as they don't keep throwing suspects at us and they be cleared in the same way, but considering there are only a few episodes left I don't think we have to worry about that.
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Old 05-23-11, 07:19 PM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

Pretty predictable episode. I figured they'd go after Bennett and the wife would find out too late that Bennett may not have had anything to do with it. The standard missed cellphone call adds to the whole cliche.

We knew Bennett didn't do it and I was just waiting for the "misunderstanding" about what he was really involved in.

"Cross the i's and dot the t's" ? Sure, sometimes things come out wrong - but usually you pick up on it and correct yourself. Did they have to make Holder this dumb?

So what is that, 9 straight days it's rained in Seattle?
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Old 05-23-11, 07:31 PM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

Originally Posted by PopcornTreeCt View Post
There just doesn't seem to be any stakes raised in the show. There won't be any consequences if they don't solve the crime.
I think there could be very serious consequences. Holder may not get any more FUNYUNS.

i was leaning toward the aunt as a suspect because of the book thing, but Rosie was running from her killer. i think if the aunt did it, she would have been all "hey look, is that Justin Bieber" and when Rosie looked she would have gotten el ka bonked. i don't see the aunt killing her in an "i need to chase you" way.
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Old 05-23-11, 08:59 PM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

Originally Posted by onebyone View Post
Anyone know the name of the song that was playing when Richmond was drinking at the bar? I must suck at internet searches, because i cannot seem to find it.
I'm not sure, but it sounded like Nina Simone to me.
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Old 05-23-11, 10:53 PM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

I'm leaning toward this Somali girl having something to do with Rosie. If it was a complete waste of time, I'll be a little disappointed with the writers, but not to the point I imagine others would be.

Mainly, I appreciate that the show is showing us how a murder affects a community on multiple levels: the victim, the victim's family, the police, politics, the live of suspects, etc. I think in that way it has actually been very effective and I'm glad that they continue to show us the effect this has on the Larsens because it allows us to better understand the frustration and pain they are going through. Otherwise, she's just a faceless victim that we wouldn't give a second though. Loved the scene with the dad and the random girl.

I also thought the book thing with the Aunt is weird. I suppose it could be her, but I don't quite understand what her motive would have been. She definitely seems a little crazy though. As for Rosie running, I imagine even if it was someone you knew and they went psycho and tried to kill you, you might run away screaming too, lol.

Originally Posted by Pharoh View Post
And that is my fear, my disappointment in the show, that they have already failed in walking that tightrope. It appears they just randomly introduce new angles and stories simply in order to take up time. And if they are going to tie everything together at the end, it sure seems like it is going to be extremely contrived. Hope I am wrong.
Aside from the missing Somali girl angle, would you mind pointing to exactly what new angles and stories you're talking about.

I think most of the false leads they've introduced have actually led to something else happening (either a new suspect or some real-world repercussion). But I'd like to see which ones you're referring to exactly so I can better understand the criticism.

Originally Posted by anomynous View Post
The punching the rock thing was so stupid, but I laughed.


Me too. It was a very brutal scene and I understand they were trying to convey that the other guy was just so jacked up and angry as well that he was just biding his time until he could have a crack at Bennett. But it came across as comical, seeing the dad in the foreground beating a man senseless and then this guy in the background jumping up and down beating on a rock, lol.
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Old 05-24-11, 07:46 AM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

My guess is that Belko was punching the rock in order to scuff up his hand so that he could turn himself in for the beating. I don't know why he'd do that, but that was my first thought when seeing him do it. At this point in the series, it seems like a conceivable plotline, right?
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Old 05-24-11, 09:02 AM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

Originally Posted by reubs82 View Post
My guess is that Belko was punching the rock in order to scuff up his hand so that he could turn himself in for the beating. I don't know why he'd do that, but that was my first thought when seeing him do it. At this point in the series, it seems like a conceivable plotline, right?
What? No.

Has Belko in any way come across as that forward-thinking to you?
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Old 05-24-11, 09:25 AM
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Re: The Killing -- "Undertow" -- 5/22/11

Originally Posted by Dragon Tattoo View Post
What? No.

Has Belko in any way come across as that forward-thinking to you?
Right; but in the context of the recent plotlines, doesn't it seem plausible? Linden, a seasoned detective not only lets her kid play with her work computer, but she also promised Mitch that the case was about to be closed.

So, while Belko may not be forward thinking there's no saying that the writers won't figure out some way to make it work for their own purposes.
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