movielib

Showtime, 9:00pm CDT

Ok, a little late with this thread. Believe it or not, I just forgot. Anyway:

Not really sure what this is about and I haven't seen it yet. Not real excited.

Gunde

That bad, huh?

movielib

I didn't say it was bad. I said I haven't seen it yet.

Deftones

I thought it was bad. So they bagged on it because kids get hurt, but don't kids get hurt in most any sport or physical activity? I'm sure more kids get hurt skateboarding than in martial arts. I'm glad they brought up the Chi shit, for the whole "mystical energy" thing. The only real good discussion they had is that martial arts is not teaching anyone self-defense.

JasonF

It was an OK episode. They had some pro-martial arts concluding thoughts (martial arts can be great exercise and good for teaching discipline) that I wish they had brought up sooner, but the stuff they were focusing on throughout the episode was worthy of being exposed for the bullshit that it is.

DRG

The problem I'm having with some of the episodes of late, especially the ones that aren't obviously 'controversial' by nature, is that instead of going in with a focused point on a subject and exposing that point, they seem to be picking topics and then listing a bunch of random gripes about them. Not to say those gripes aren't valid, but it makes it feel like they are trying to find ways to justify their existing dislike of that subject versus disliking the subject because of these facts.

XavierMike

I like this show, but don't have Showtime. I have been training in martial arts for 23 years. I am looking forward to seeing it. I'm obviously a supporter of the arts, but there is a lot of crap out there. In my experience there are great instructors who have a lot of value to offer, but there are lesser quality instructors who seem to rely on gimmicks to attract people if they don't have the knowledge to teach effectively.

Looking forward to seeing this one probably on Netflix.

Red Dog

Your last sentence explains it. It's the fact that the kids get hurt doing something that is supposed to protect their health.

Nobody is taking up skateboarding because it will protect them.

Much like the cheerleading, much of the bullshit is the costs of such a hobby-pursuit.

Deftones

While they made the point about self-defense, I've known many people who have taken martial arts and had no interest in learning just because of self-defense. Hell, I took taekwando as a kid for many years, and it wasn't self-defense related. I took it because it was something to do and was fun at the time.

Gunde

I was just referring to the lack of replies

Red Dog

Isn't taekwando considered a sport? I know it's an Olympic event.

fleggett

Well, I pretty-much hated this episode. Except for the crazy chi lady whose organs talk to her (supposedly), and parts of the guy who chops through wood, the rest was garbage (IMHO). So, if I'm alone in a restaurant and a bunch of thugs come in, I'm suppose to pour a milkshake on top of my head in the hopes they think me too much of an idiot to rough up?

The entire point of learning a martial art is not for offensive purposes, but for defensive. Even the "take no prisoners" guy said something to that effect (I think). Having the right to defend oneself against an agressor is universal, and having the added ability of being ABLE to defend oneself efficiently and effectively, even against multiple attackers, is a TREMENDOUS bonus. Yes, I realize it may escalate the confrontation, but I'm not the type of person who likes to curl up into a fetal position while a group of thugs hit and kick me.

I generally like P&T, but this episode sucked big time.

Pixie Song

I was ambivalent about this episode. I understood the point they were making about martial arts not being an effective method of self-defense, but their execution was off. I would have liked it if they had tackled the more "woo" oriented side of martial arts. I'm referring to any claims of mysticism or the ability to make an opponent unconscious with the lightest touch. I suppose the "chi" woman came close, but there's an interesting video out there of a man slicing his arm under the false belief he can overcome the injury with his mind.

I thought the students who were cleaning up and teaching classes for their "master" were being taken advantage of big time. The owner basically has workers he doesn't have to pay or insure. It just doesn't seem right.

actionjackson29

A point they were trying to make was how often do you actually hear of someone taking down a group thugs because of their martial arts training. That's something you only see on TV.

PopcornTreeCt

I turned it off right after that story. Just seemed like they were picking on eccentric people for their eccentricity.

Deftones

have you ever watched this show before?

DeanoBKN

Johnny Lawerence & John Kreese don't agree with this episode.

extreme2700

What else are you supposed to do with eccentric people?

fleggett

Just because you don't hear of such things on a daily basis doesn't mean they don't happen. I've seen quite a few videos on sites like Break where martial arts-type people have taken down brutes and thugs, but these rarely make the seven-o-clock news (for whatever reason).

The point is this - if you happen to find yourself in a situation where you're facing a bully, would you rather 1) only be able to pour a milkshake on your head in the rather vain hope he laughs and leaves or 2) walk confidently right by him knowing that, if he tries anything, you have the training to defend yourself?

As someone who was verbally and physically bullied CONSTANTLY throughout junior high school (but now have the stature and frame to be taken seriously as an opponent), I'll take option 2 any day. If it escalates, it escalates. If I go down, that just means I need more training. If he goes down, though, he'll think long and hard the next time he tries anything.

Bullies CAN'T go by unchecked. They have to be met with force on equal terms, else they'll never consider any other path (i.e., being nice to fellow human beings). Martial arts are intended to "provide" that path. I'm a HUGE fan of walking softly, but carrying a big stick.

fleggett

I realize now I completely screwed-up that paragraph. What I meant to say was that, except for the "take no prisoners" guy and parts of the wood-chopping dude, the rest was garbage. I dunno, maybe the crazy chi lady is onto something, but she just came across as completely bonkers. I also felt sorry for the normal girl they paired her with (hope P&T paid her well).

Red Dog

How about running away? Why is that not an option, as they specifically mentioned? The milkshake gag was simply for comedic effect.

As for videos, how do you know that wherever you're seeing such videos, they're not staged?

spainlinx0

Tae Kwon Do and other "belt-factory" schools are probably not teaching kids real defense. But there are places that can show you real self-defense. Haven't seen the episode, but that's what I'll add.

fleggett

At this point in my life, unless I know for a fact I'll either be seriously hurt if not outright killed, I'm not much for running away from a thug. And, typically, a bully picks on people they know they can intimidate, which usually means someone smaller and frailer. For those people, running away is like a cat playing with a one-winged bird. The cat >IS< going to eventually catch up and do his thing, regardless.

Well, I don't, I'm only taking the captions at face value. You could just as well ask if we really went to the moon. I consider the sources at least somewhat credible.

fleggett

I don't know what I think about the whole belt system, either, but there does need to be a way to evaluate someone's progress and acknowledge signficiant advancements. I can't think of a good way to do that ATM, but the belt system seems as good as any. The trick is to avoid those "schools" which apply the system in ineffective ways and via fraudulent means (such as, being able to chop your way through ten blocks of balsa wood does NOT mean you're a black-belt).

spainlinx0

That's exactly what I mean. The BJJ place I was going to had a belt system, but it would take years and years to earn belts. You weren't guaranteed a black belt in a year like some of these factories.