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Old 01-07-10 | 01:49 PM
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"Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

I've made my opinions of "3-D" well-known in the threads about Avatar, and even if we're still stuck with it in the theater, it's nice to see others acknowledge the problems with a home version. And comparing it to color and HD transitions? LAUGHABLE. Might as well say the same thing about a push for Smell-O-Vision to make a comeback.

Article here:

Why 3-D television will flop
In a fleeting craze, media and tech companies are leaping before they look.
Posted by Minyanville on Wednesday, January 6, 2010 12:56 PM
This article was written by Minyanville's Mike Schuster

"Hey, Paul, glad you can make it. Pumped for the game? Yeah, us, too. Hey, did you bring your 3-D glasses? No? Ah, well, we don't have any extras. Listen, do you mind just manning the snacks and drinks for the next three hours? Appreciate it, Paulie."

Expect to hear many variants of that conversation starting in June and lasting until corporate execs come to their senses.

Fueled by hit films like Avatar and Up, interest in 3-D has hit a fever pitch -- some would argue its zenith -- and both cable networks and electronics manufacturers are taking notice. Their conceit: If it works in the theaters, why not in the living room? And that inherently flawed notion is leading companies to sink billions into a trend that won't last long.

The foremost name in televised sports, ESPN (DIS), announced it will kick off the ESPN 3-D network on June 11 with a dynamic showcase of the World Cup soccer match -- effectively breaking ground as the first completely 3-D television network. Time Warner Cable (TWC) and Comcast (CMCSA) have had preliminary talks over broadcast rights.

See also Outraged By the Cable Wars? Cut the Cord

Kinks in the network, however, already seem apparent. Firmly dedicated to the no-rerun schedule, ESPN 3-D will go dark when there aren't any 3-D games to broadcast. So unless it expands way beyond the 85 live sporting events planned for the year, there often won't be any dimension to enjoy -- much less three.

Speaking with USA Today, Chuck Pagano, ESPN's executive vice president for technology, compared the 3-D transition to the shift toward HD. "We don't have all the answers," he admitted. "We asked the same questions back in the HD days. Is this going to be better? Is this going to be worse?"

Hate to break it to you, Chuck, but no one was worried about sharper image quality catching on with the public.

Following not too far behind ESPN's gamble is a joint venture among Discovery Communications (DISCA), Sony (SNE) and IMAX (IMAX). At its launch next year, the nameless network will only air in the U.S. and -- according to the joint press release -- will hopefully boost "consumer adoption of 3-D televisions."

See also In TV, Apple Leaves Trailblazing to Others

And therein lie the catalyst and the downfall to the 3-D TV initiative.

Three-D TV will require brand new television sets and related equipment, which companies like LG Electronics, Panasonic (PC) and Toshiba were eager to show off this week at the Consumer Electronics Show. Special 3-D goggles are required for each viewer, unless the set has Auto Stereo Display -- which then only works if everyone is situated directly in front of the set at a specific distance. Otherwise, it's a blur. Your best bet: Shell out for a pair for each family member and expected guests.

The cost of all this equipment could run into the thousands, preventing a surge of early adopters still too strapped to even buy a regular HDTV or wise enough to wait until the technology catches on -- if it ever does. And skimping on a 15-inch screen won't cut it: For 3-D to be effective, it needs to be huge -- which is why the technology is best seen in a movie theater, as it has been for decades.

See also Ten Factors Keeping Hollywood From Going Digital

And what about new content? Three-D technology is costlier than even HD programming, boosting production costs much higher. And although Pixar's earlier Toy Story titles were overhauled to feature 3-D, the process is incredibly labor-intensive and, again, very costly -- even for a CGI movie. Going through a studio's back catalog and revamping the footage to meet 3-D standards is a headache not many studios or editors want to endure. Plus, is there much of a demand to watch Scrubs or Hitch with an extra visual depth?

Speaking of headaches: 3-D is an eye-straining struggle for many. As crowds exit a theater showing a 3-D feature, there will inevitably be pockets of audience members voicing the pain and vertigo that only constantly refocusing your eyes for more than two hours could produce. Are people willing to undergo that barrage of images for an entire evening of TV?

Understandably, studios and electronics manufacturers are excited over the possibility of a new gimmick to fill theater seats and keep couch potatoes paying for cable. But they fail to realize that the cost will far outweigh the charm and, maybe, 3-D is only a once-in-a-while treat. You know why nobody rides a roller coaster to work? Because not only would it lose its appeal after the first week, it's completely impractical.

The world is about to witness the rebirth of Nintendo's Virtual Boy debacle -- only on an epic scale worthy of James Cameron.

Last edited by Draven; 01-07-10 at 01:51 PM.
Old 01-07-10 | 03:26 PM
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Re: "Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

The glasses, as always, remain the problem.

If they can figure out a way to do 3D without the glasses, they might have something.
Old 01-07-10 | 03:58 PM
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Re: "Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

I don't even think the glasses are the problem. 3D is a gimmick, and it's one whose novelty wears off pretty quickly, IMO. They've grossly misunderstood the market here, as HDTVs aren't even in 50% of US households yet. It'll be a niche product for the duration of its short existence.
Old 01-07-10 | 03:59 PM
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Re: "Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

Originally Posted by FatTony
I don't even think the glasses are the problem. 3D is a gimmick, and it's one whose novelty wears off pretty quickly, IMO. They've grossly misunderstood the market here, as HDTVs aren't even in 50% of US households yet. It'll be a niche product for the duration of its short existence.
This. Plus they cant seem to get it to work right in theaters. What makes them think it will work right in home theater settings?
Old 01-07-10 | 04:24 PM
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Re: "Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

3D TV will be a short lived novelty, every decade needs one.
Old 01-07-10 | 04:27 PM
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Re: "Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

Originally Posted by jjcool
This. Plus they cant seem to get it to work right in theaters. What makes them think it will work right in home theater settings?
Think of it like this, theatrically, we have:

- RealD 3-D theaters, which use specific silver-lined screens.
- Dolby Digital 3-D, which use specific glasses using current existing screens.
- IMAX 3D, which can either be 70mm or dual 2K projectors.

Now think of it like this for television:

- Less than 50% of the country owns an HDTV.
- How many of those own an HDTV that is large than 32"? I'd assume a large percentage, but here is the big one...
- How many of those own an HDTV that is (A) 3-D capable AND/OR (B) 120 or 240 Hz? That I would say is a VERY small percentage.
Old 01-07-10 | 05:58 PM
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Re: "Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

Come on, the glasses are a problem.

Want to lie down and watch TV? Nope.
Want to have guests over to watch 3D TV? Nope.
Can't find your glasses? Shit!

Not to mention the fact that some people (like me)... already wear glasses.

Basically, TV watching is the default lazy activity. You really think that accessories aren't an issue? Who the fuck wants to worry about that?
Old 01-07-10 | 06:25 PM
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Re: "Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet

Not to mention the fact that some people (like me)... already wear glasses.
Same here and I don't see Lenscrafters doing up prescription 3D glasses any time soon.

My other issue is I just paid almost $3000.00 for my HDTV 2 years ago and am not looking to go out and paying another $2000.00+ for one for 3D.
Old 01-07-10 | 07:11 PM
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Re: "Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

I dont think 3D will flop. But its not going to be something that would be used for normal tv. I mean if I could buy Avatar in 3D and go home and watch it in Digital 3d I would. I think I would have a bunch of people to do that. I think it would be like how people have a projector in there house to watch movies on 100" screen. Its something you dont use for every day watchig usually since you have to make sure its pretty dark in the room to really enjoy it. I know we use ours only for watching DVDs and Blurays.

I would buy one once the prices come down and the TVs are large enough atleast 50inch. But 3D is not going to be Huge in homes untill the figure a way to get rid of the need to wear glasses.
Old 01-07-10 | 07:19 PM
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Re: "Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

I paid $600 for my projector and made my screen myself. Care to guess how long it will take for me to do the equivalent in 3-d?

Hell, the digital transition which only really affected people who had antennas was a huge clusterfuck. I cannot imagine the problems this will create.
Old 01-07-10 | 09:17 PM
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Re: "Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

Originally Posted by Draven
Hell, the digital transition which only really affected people who had antennas was a huge clusterfuck. I cannot imagine the problems this will create.
Why would it create any problems? It's not like 3D is going to be required.
Old 01-07-10 | 09:23 PM
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Re: "Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
Come on, the glasses are a problem.
I agree, they are a problem, but they aren't the problem. Sorry if I read into your original post too much, but it sounded like you were saying that was the biggest issue with 3D, and I was just disagreeing with that.
Old 01-07-10 | 09:41 PM
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Re: "Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

Originally Posted by FatTony
I agree, they are a problem, but they aren't the problem. Sorry if I read into your original post too much, but it sounded like you were saying that was the biggest issue with 3D, and I was just disagreeing with that.
Oh no, certainly not. You also have issues with 3D content, TVs, etc... but I really think that that stuff could be overcome if a new 3D technology that doesn't need glasses comes along.

And if that ever does happen, I don't see 3D becoming the next HD. It'll be a fun supplement but nothing anyone needs.
Old 01-07-10 | 09:45 PM
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Re: "Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

I guess my mind can't wrap around the plausibility of 3d from a television set or theater screen without glasses. It just doesn't seem possible. And wearing 3d glasses to watch something has been giving me a major headache as well as really bothersome to my eyes.
Old 01-07-10 | 09:45 PM
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Re: "Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

Technology that no one asked for.
Old 01-08-10 | 12:27 AM
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Re: "Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
Why would it create any problems? It's not like 3D is going to be required.
Problems meaning "more nonsense in the marketplace". I mean we just wrapped up the HD format war, HD TVs are finally seeing a good number in households and the manufacturers are seeing their margins shrink. So they have to come up with a new way to make money...and apparently this is what they are planning on.

Since it will NEVER have the penetration to be profitable, it seems like a huge waste of time and money to everyone involved.
Old 01-08-10 | 12:30 AM
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Re: "Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
If they can figure out a way to do 3D without the glasses, they might have something.
I think that's called reality.
Old 01-08-10 | 12:54 AM
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Re: "Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

Originally Posted by John Drake
I think that's called reality.
That's what I'm thinking. So if they expect me to watch hours of television while wearing glasss that give me headaches then I think they will have one customer less.
Old 01-08-10 | 08:10 AM
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Re: "Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

Why all the hate? I mean, sure it may be gimmicky but it's a pretty cool effect when done well and if you can still watch a program in normal HD then you have a choice.

I for one am looking forward to this "gimmick" and if it pans out great. If not, no big deal because my HDTV still plays content as it was intented to anyways. I've never had a headache because of the 3D effect and let's face it -- p*rn in 3d would be great!
Old 01-08-10 | 08:24 AM
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Re: "Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

Originally Posted by Rob V
and let's face it -- p*rn in 3d would be great!
Hmm, Ron Jeremy in 3D... I think you just killed 3D for everyone.
Old 01-08-10 | 08:35 AM
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Re: "Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
Come on, the glasses are a problem.

Want to lie down and watch TV? Nope.
Want to have guests over to watch 3D TV? Nope.
Can't find your glasses? Shit!

Not to mention the fact that some people (like me)... already wear glasses.

Basically, TV watching is the default lazy activity. You really think that accessories aren't an issue? Who the fuck wants to worry about that?
Originally Posted by ChrisHicks
Same here and I don't see Lenscrafters doing up prescription 3D glasses any time soon.
There already are solutions for people who wear glasses. Someone posted in a link in one of the other 3D threads. You can already buy prescription 3D lenses or you can just get snap-on lenses for your glasses. It's really not that tough.

Originally Posted by edstein
Technology that I didn't ask for.
Fixed

Originally Posted by Draven
Problems meaning "more nonsense in the marketplace". I mean we just wrapped up the HD format war, HD TVs are finally seeing a good number in households and the manufacturers are seeing their margins shrink. So they have to come up with a new way to make money...and apparently this is what they are planning on.

Since it will NEVER have the penetration to be profitable, it seems like a huge waste of time and money to everyone involved.
We really don't know that yet. When HD first came on the scene, no one had HD TV sets either. I know many here aren't interested in it, but that doesn't mean that no one is interested. I know quite a few people who have been holding off buying a TV or are considering buying a new one once 3D TVs are released. You never know what's going to sell until it actually gets released, no matter how much you personally don't like it.

Matthew Chmiel said in an earlier post that less than 50% of the U.S. has HD TVs. No one sees 3D as a possible incentive for some of that other 50% to finally invest in a new television?

All of these 3D threads just turn into the same thing. No one here has actually seen a 3D TV in action, yet it's just a bunch of griping about how they don't like it so it will be flop. A lot of people actually like 3D and think it's fun.

And since it's relevant to the discussion here as well, this is an article from HighDefDigest that Chew posted in another thread:

A recent survey conducted by Quixel Research found that while consumer interest in 3D Blu-ray discs and DVDs was high, what they really wanted was 3D from their cable provider.

The survey took answers from a thousand current HDTV owners. Those taking it were asked about the quantity and quality of their experiences with 3D technology, as well as a few forward looking questions about the delivery of the technology.

According to the survey, customers don’t mind shelling out for a new TV, but they’d prefer not to have to buy discs. “Consumers are very familiar with recent 3D technology” said Tamaryn Pratt, Quixel research principal. “Consumers not only prefer to receive 3D content from their cable or satellite provider, but they are willing to pay more for a 3D movie channel.”

The survey also revealed some interesting, if vague revelations as to what the future looks like to the general public. A third of those that were surveyed expect 3D TV in the next 12 months. They don’t mind the glasses though, according to Pratt. “Those who have seen a 3D movie in the 12 months are interested in owning a 3D TV even if it requires glasses,” she reports.

The survey also questioned what consumers' most trusted brands for delivery of 3D content were, and there aren’t a lot of surprises. The top three were Comcast, Samsung, and Sony.
Old 01-08-10 | 08:53 AM
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Re: "Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

I'm sure I'm in the very small minority but I have 3 HD sets at home right now and an HD Projector and I've considered replacing two of my sets with stereoscopic units when they become available later this year or early next. Why the heck not if you have the resources and major studios and networks are promising content?

Now if I can't watch normal TV shows in HD because of my set being stereoscopic then I won't do it... but if I can choose either / or, I'm in.

Technology that no one asked for.
The majority hasn't clamored for a ton of the technology we have. Not sure how that statement is even a valid argument.
Old 01-08-10 | 10:04 AM
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Re: "Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

Originally Posted by clckworang
There already are solutions for people who wear glasses. Someone posted in a link in one of the other 3D threads. You can already buy prescription 3D lenses or you can just get snap-on lenses for your glasses. It's really not that tough.


Yeah, that's what I want to do- snap plastic lenses onto my glasses, probably scratch the hell out of my actual glasses, and look like a complete idiot in the process.

Or buy 3D prescription glasses? That'll go over well.
Old 01-08-10 | 10:15 AM
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Re: "Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet
The glasses, as always, remain the problem.

If they can figure out a way to do 3D without the glasses, they might have something.
Here you go:

Old 01-08-10 | 10:49 AM
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Re: "Why 3-D Television Will Flop"

Originally Posted by Tracer Bullet


Yeah, that's what I want to do- snap plastic lenses onto my glasses, probably scratch the hell out of my actual glasses, and look like a complete idiot in the process.

Or buy 3D prescription glasses? That'll go over well.
They have been making snap-on lenses for sunglasses for 20 years or so. I think companies might have that advanced form of technology under control at this point. They are both solutions to the problem that you cited. I have glasses as well and would consider it. If you choose to disregard the solutions that are out there, that's your decision. And if you have to buy glasses to see the 3D anyway, if you can get prescription lenses for not much more, why not?

Edit to add links:

These were the links that Jay G. posted in another thread that I was referring to.

http://www.ultimate3dheaven.com/3dclglcipo.html
http://www.berezin.com/3D/3dglasses.htm#Circular

Last edited by clckworang; 01-08-10 at 10:54 AM.


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