mraw

My DVR stays recording cable shows that I like more than network television. I enjoy the shorter seasons, but I don't like getting into a show and not knowing how many episodes are in the season and being disappointed. I really enjoyed season one of The No. 1 Ladies' Detective Agency but I was shocked when they said 'next week, on the season finale'...

Then there are shows that run out of time before the story can be fleshed out fully and correctly, like season 2 of 'Damages'. Then there are shows like 'Castle' that are really good when there's a truncated season 1, but it may suffer next year from a full 20+ episode season. So I think it really depends on the show and the story that the writers want to tell. I like what Quartermass mentioned about writing the story first and deciding afterwards how many episodes are needed to tell the story.

writer106

I sometimes wish that cable shows had longer seasons. But short seasons work well for certain shows. I thought the 13 episodes for the third season of Friday Night Lights worked well with the time frame of the storylines.

TVWriter2B

If that's the case (22-27 episodes), then why did TNT's 'The Closer' announce that the new season was going to sprout in December. All of three episodes were aired before they announced that the new season would air in June. The same things have happened to NCIS and a few other shows that I enjoy. If this trend keeps up, we may just have to veg out in front of the wallpaper.

USA was the first to employ off-season series premiers with "La Femme Nikita" which actually benefited the station as well as the viewers. As other stations aired re-runs of their original programming, USA gathered up the viewers who had seen all their favorite shows and wanted no re-runs. Then other stations jumped on the band wagon. But when (and a better question would be WHY) did the stations (broadcast and cable) begin to chop their seasons pretty much in half?

TVWriter2B

Has anyone ever given any thought to the shows that get canned before they even reach pre-production? I think that any good television producer worth his/her salt would option a pilot backed by at least one (maybe one-and-a-half seasons) before getting it into production. Did anyone find out why ... Kirk would ... talk in such ... punchy sentences ... Spock? It was because the writers had to formulate the scripts as the episodes were being shot. I think that the format of 'Star Trek' and their production style trickled down into contemporary television. Writers of television shows should have a mandatory season written before they even try to get their show optioned.

DJariya

How did you even find this thread as your 1st post?

1st of all, your misinformed with The Closer. Every season of the show is 15 episodes. But, TNT splits the season. Season 6, which just wrapped aired 12 episodes in the summer and those December episodes were episodes 13-15 (the same season) And The Closer is a cable show and as I said in my post that you quoted me on, cable shows have smaller budgets and can't afford long seasons.

And I don't understand the last part of your statement. Network shows premiere in September or October and are padded out until May of the next year (22-27 episodes) over a 36 week schedule. NCIS hasn't done anything differently like other network shows that premiere in the Fall.

TVWriter2B

Excuse me, but where in the Terminator movie series did it ever go into how Sarah Conner time traveled forward through time with her son and Fem-Bot Terminatrix? I'm pretty sure that the issue would have been addressed in T3. The reason 'Terminator -- The Sarah Connor Chronicles' died it's slow and horrid death was because the writers were trying to adapt the next big trend into a television series that never really occurred in the original time line of the movie franchise. 'T-TSCC' was twaddle and tripe from the beginning. Hackneyed writing that should never have been.

TVWriter2B

But it all comes down to one thing that we need to examine even further here. The creators/writers/producers need to ensure that there are future seasons (nothing as grand as having the entire show of 7 seasons penned and having 9-11 occur, as I had done), but write up to a full 27 episodes before airing the first episode. If it falls flat, then it gets canceled. If it does well, there's that buffer of one season where the writers can actually get some work done. Begin with the meat, get down to the bone, and everything will have a bit of filler every so often. Series that aren't episodical (i.e. a soap opera that must have each episode tie into the last) can afford to have filler. 'N.C.I.S' is one of those series that aren't a true episodical. Sure they have the whole Gibbs-Versus-His-Past storyline from last season, but those get aired on USA as their own running stream of consciousness.

Episodes of television shows are just that, episodical. The point I see many people making is that they want a series that each episode relies on the last (the sweeping story arc that has Super Glue(tm) cohesiveness with the obligatory "No Filler" law). If that is what people want to watch, I would suggest programs like 'Young and the Restless' or other soap operas that are true series. But if you miss just one installment, you may as well just jump into 'Lost' anywhere in its series.

It all boils down to personal taste after a while, but there is one constant in all this: Television producers are missing their audience when trying to find those series that they put on TV.

TVWriter2B

Strange, because I just got through watching NCIS two weeks ago (a new episode) and this weeks (earlier tonight) was a re-run from the previous season. Explain that one.

Plus I found this thread as my first time posting here because I was investigating why TV seasons are shortening their span.

DJariya

That's nothing new. Procedurals like House, NCIS air repeats all the time from the current season or even a previous to help pad out the 36 week schedule. NCIS is in production from July to April. Repeats need to be shown, whether it's from this season or even a previous season since the plots are all self contained.

Fist of Doom

Say what? Write 27 scripts for a show that may not even make it to air? The writers would go bankrupt spending that much time on projects they might never even get paid for.

TVWriter2B

I must have gone broke a few years back then. Unless I'm some kind of genetic freak that likes to write, 27 scripts doesn't add up that much paper and toner. Think of this formula: Sit-coms are roughly 22 pages for a one half hour show; a one hour long show would be 44 pages. I write about thirteen pages a day. A decent writer (or team of writers, which is what producers use) could hammer out a season in three months.

SteveA

Back to the original question, I do think some shows seasons are too short. Men of a Certain Age, for example, is a terrific show. But how many episodes were there this season? 4? 6? It was gone before it had hardly started.

RichC2

That's a cable thing -- its pretty normal for a cable show to have a short first season and then have a regular sized second season. Men of a Certain Age had 10 episodes in season 1 and will have 12 episodes this season (typical season run).

HBO has more erratic scheduling though with shows like Eastbound and Down having a 6 episode first season and a 7 episode second season. However, since they're premium, they just do whatever, though they generally stick to 12 episode seasons.

The re-run schedule on broadcast is pretty typical -- Your typical season runs about 26 episodes (a little less now), it starts in September, runs through May. In order to fill 36 weeks with 26 weeks worth of episodes they usually air re-runs of either the current season or the previous season for 10 strategically planned weeks during the season. I've always hated this method, and greatly preferred the straight through runs that later seasons of Lost and 24 had.

Also, I had always read that 1 page of a script translated to roughly 30 seconds of screen time, wouldn't that make a typical sitcom closer to 44 pages long for a 22 minute episode? Of course I've never had anything I've written filmed.

I personally like the shorter seasons for serialized shows (True Blood, Breaking Bad, Dexter) as it helps prevent filler and keeps focus on a core story. Procedurals and Comedies can go longer since they generally focus on self-contained stories with maybe little bits of continuity (House comes to mind).

That said, while (I think) 26 used to be the norm it does seem stations are trimming back (and have for several years now) to save funds. I'd say the average skews closer to 23 or 24 episodes a season (with 12 episodes marking a half season instead of 13).

CBS Shows seem to run around 23 - 24 episodes per season
ABC Shows seems to run around 24 episodes per season
NBC Shows tend to run 22 to 26 episodes per season
FOX Shows tend to run from 20 - 24 episodes per season.

Timber

I miss the days when "night soaps" used to have 30 some odd episodes a season. I think seasons 2 and 3 of 90210 had 28 and 30 episodes respectively. Season 4 31 episodes and season 5 32 episodes. Somewhere along the line network TV got 22 episodes as a model and it just doesn't work when they have more then half of the calendar year as repeats. Fortunately in recent years they've started putting more then one show in a time slot for the year.

dvdjunkie32

I thought every episode in the first two seaons moved the storyline well, and was exciting. Season 3 and 4 were totally a waste.

Tracer Bullet

And who is going to pay for this?

Michael Corvin

I'm pretty content with the status of all the shows I watch with the exception of one, The Walking Dead. 6 episodes? Are you shitting me? I have to wait until how long for season 2? Like mentioned earlier, for a serial that's the point where you are just getting started.

WallyOPD

Not only that but I think the quality would suffer if you scripted out the entire season in advance. You need to find out how the actors are playing the characters and see what is working and what isn't so you can adjust your writing. If you decide you have to scrap an arc on the fly then you essentially need to throw out all that work you did anyway.

TVWriter2B

This is my point exactly. I may be giving away my age here, but when I was younger, the Fall season would start in August/September (when school would start) and end May/June (when school would let out for the summer).

Therein lies the rub. Television (be it cable or network) and even movies, to a further extent, need writers who write for the love of writing and not the love of the dollar bill. We, as a nation, have apparently decided that if there is nothing in it for the individual, it isn't worth doing. I speak for myself here when I say I write for the sheer joy of putting words to paper. Sure I have my own responsibilities (college, work, home, etc.), but I still make time to create for the purpose of creating. I have had five of my short stories published in a small, local paper. I may be only one person, but if these television executives tap into the American writers they would have more than enough material for the next ten years of series (even if it was only for one season). Being a writer is not a glamorous job and pays very little, especially for those of us trying to break into the industry. And when the networks (cable included) chop away at the season length, it closes the door even further on those with the talent to bring TV back to the Golden Age.

Now take that argument about 'The Walking Dead' and do the math. If each person in America had their own favorite show that seemed to follow the same pattern, you have the incredibly shrinking season that this thread was designed to discuss.

Well, there is that. I will admit where I may have dropped the ball, but a writer can fix that problem fairly easily. A script treatment could be done instead of scripting an entire episode. But the need for pre-existing material still exists.

resinrats

I have thought for a while that the networks could get away with two separate seasons (different shows each season). The first season would start just after new years and run until May/June. The 2nd season starts a month or tow later & runs until mid -December. Have each season be about 22 episodes long. This way there are 10 weeks a year that there could be reruns/holiday shows.

To use NCIS as an example, it could start in Jan & run all the episodes with almost no breaks until May/June. Then NCIS takes a break until the next year. Maybe have NCIS LA in the same timeslot for the 2nd season. Once that ends in Dec, it takes a break while NCIS comes back.

DJariya

Did you even read RichC2's post above? Network TV still produces anywhere from 22-26 episodes over the course of 36 weeks (September to May) 10 weeks of repeats for Holidays and slow parts of the season.

No offense, but you don't really sound like your in the loop with how a scripted show is produced for network TV and it's airing schedule. Nothing has really changed from what you described except that there is more weeks of repeats compared to the past. But, that comes down to TV costing alot more to produce now than in the 70's or 80's.

I think you need to spend a week or 2 reading Nellie Andreeva's daily TV news articles on www.deadline.com to better educate yourself on what's going on nowadays. Especially in Pilot season from Now until April when Pilots are being cast and shot for the next season.

Michael Corvin

Ironic given his screen name.

AVP77

I would wager that almost nobody is writing 'on spec' serialized television scripts for the love of it, and if they are the scripts are probably terrible.

Yeah, some people write short stories, novels, even feature film scripts without knowing exactly how they are going to get them into the world. But from everything I've read about writing rooms for TV shows, the technique they use to generate most scripts is entirely different.

rw2516

I think what he was getting at, there was a time, in our youth, when all tv series began in september and ran new episodes non-stop until spring. No mid-season reruns. Then summer was nothing but reruns, except for a summer replacement show. There weren't ratings sweep months back then, every week was treated the same, so even a top rated series would finish the season in march or april, no need to pad for may sweeps. The holiday season would be brand new episodes of all shows currently airing except for the occasional pre-empt for a christmas special.

DRG

But even those old seasons were 24-26 episodes in a season, which if you think about mid-September to mid-May is like 32 weeks.

It's interesting, if you look at the air dates for shows in the 70s...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_M*A*S*H_episodes

M.A.S.H.'s first three seasons were 24 episodes and ran mostly straight through, but the season finales were in March. Season 4 ended in February (with 25 episodes!)

Kojak (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Kojak_episodes) in its first season ran from October-May, but only aired one new episode in April and one in May. It's next few seasons ran from September to March like MASH's did.

Charlie's Angels (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ngels_episodes) followed a strange pattern. Its first three seasons they seemed to run from Sept-early March with a few off weeks, then return in May for an episode or two. What was going on in April?

Sanford & Son (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...d_Son_episodes) seemed to follow a similar schedule as M.A.S.H.

It still seems like a lot of the t.v. season ended as early as March in the 70s, which means you weren't getting *that* much more in terms of new programming... it was just a longer continuous rerun cycle rather than having some of the reruns doled out throughout the normal season.