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Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

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Old 03-08-09, 04:32 AM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

Originally Posted by Jimmy James
I think we can infer that since brother wasn't popping up in episodes, he was out of town.
I wouldn't infer this... there have been plenty of lulls between the brother being on the show... is he out of town each time? or simply not part of the plot? I think you want to infer this, but please don't say "we" as if this is some sort of consensus viewpoint (or should be).

Originally Posted by Jimmy James
If Carla had unlimited resources, do you think a trip to Orlando would have done any damned good?
Long term, of course not... but it would buy Michael some time to carry out the blackmail of Carla (which was the plan, and apparently one that would happen very quickly). Presumably he would want to buy that time with his brother as well. Again, for a man who seems to think 2-3 moves ahead, in my view it's hard to believe that the writers did not at least show that he considered the brother (or said why he didn't need to consider his brother's safety). A simple question from Sam or Fi, and Michael saying he's out of town, or he's safe would have allowed the writers to quickly tie up this loose end. Or as I said earlier, they can tie this up early next season as well, if they wanted to by explaining it after the fact.

Originally Posted by Jimmy James
Now, maybe we'll find out next year Carla sent an operative to Bumwad, New Mexico to kill Nate (most of us would probably prefer that). What else did you want Michael to do, precisely
Just spitballing here, but perhaps the Mom might know and he send Sam and the Mom to do it? or Fi? Or his arm dealer 'friend'?

Originally Posted by Jimmy James
The Victor family assassination scenario was very different. They had time to plan and scout that one. They knew Michael went rogue one morning and had a standoff with him that afternoon.
Yet, despite the lack of time, they were prepped to take out the Mom, they had sat on the marina with what supposedly was just Carla taking a long shot, had people sitting on the Client's 'unknown' safehouse, attacked them at the warehouse the Client was being held at... and apparently had no contingency to go after the brother? It's not the time from going rogue to the standoff - Carla seemingly had prepared for multiple contingencies, one would think she'd be keeping tabs on the brother as well. Granted the Mom was seemingly the easiest target to get to Michael, but I would think the brother would be a plan B.

Carla made many references and reminded Michael multiple times during the show about going after his family and friends (even to the point of Michael sarcastically saying something to the effect, 'yeah I know, you'll go after my family and friends' when Carla confronted him on several occasions) - the writers seemed to keep harping on this fact and then (in my view) over-simplified it. Again, a minor point to an otherwise great finale, but something the writers could have handled better.

Last edited by wirefan; 03-08-09 at 04:38 AM.
Old 03-08-09, 01:47 PM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

Originally Posted by wirefan
I wouldn't infer this... there have been plenty of lulls between the brother being on the show... is he out of town each time? or simply not part of the plot? I think you want to infer this, but please don't say "we" as if this is some sort of consensus viewpoint (or should be).
In light of the aforementioned laying low, I'd hope this would be a consensus viewpoint. Michael has no problem sending lots of people out of town.

Again, for a man who seems to think 2-3 moves ahead, in my view it's hard to believe that the writers did not at least show that he considered the brother (or said why he didn't need to consider his brother's safety).
"Sam, go take care of mom, but remember that you don't need to do anything about my brother because he's in Outback, Nebraska."



Realistic dialogue there.

Just spitballing here, but perhaps the Mom might know and he send Sam and the Mom to do it? or Fi? Or his arm dealer 'friend'?
He did send Sam and Fi to take care of his family, and I do believe they were careful to use the word "family" there.

Yet, despite the lack of time, they were prepped to take out the Mom,
Sitting duck at a location it has been established they knew.

had people sitting on the Client's 'unknown' safehouse,
His fourth because he was that afraid they found his first three.

attacked them at the warehouse the Client was being held at...
They followed Michael, which I admit has to be difficult.

and apparently had no contingency to go after the brother?
No need when they have the sitting duck mom, which I see we agree about.

Granted the Mom was seemingly the easiest target to get to Michael, but I would think the brother would be a plan B.
Frankly, Sam and Fi would probably be better plan Bs. Harder degree of difficulty, sure. Taking them out would also take out Michael's assets, though.
Old 03-08-09, 04:18 PM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

Originally Posted by wirefan
I thought this was a fantastic season ending and the show really took off this season. Ditching into the water at the end was a great way to leave it. Pretty cool that it's coming back in June as well. The only thing I had hoped was the killer turned partner made it and they became a tag team for a little while - they had a pretty good chemistry (of course that would not have worked plot-wise).

The cable stations are really putting the major broadcast networks to shame on programming lately.
agreed. fitting ending and i am glad it is going to come back in the summer.
Old 03-08-09, 06:00 PM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

Originally Posted by Jimmy James
In light of the aforementioned laying low, I'd hope this would be a consensus viewpoint. Michael has no problem sending lots of people out of town.
"Lots"... how about backing this up with 5-10 names?

Originally Posted by Jimmy James
"Sam, go take care of mom, but remember that you don't need to do anything about my brother because he's in Outback, Nebraska."



Realistic dialogue there.
M: "Sam, go take care of my Mom and make sure she gets out of town"
S: "Michael, what about your brother"
M: "He's already laying low"

Yeah, that would be completely unrealistic! And take up an inordinate amount of screen time! Sure, it's easy to make up unrealistic dialogue if that is your sole objective to defend your point of view. Clearly there were "realistic" ways they could have dealt with this. Or do you disagree? Making up silly and absurd dialogue in an attempt to back up your point is not helping your argument.

Let's just agree to disagree.

Originally Posted by Jimmy James
Frankly, Sam and Fi would probably be better plan Bs. Harder degree of difficulty, sure. Taking them out would also take out Michael's assets, though.
This statement shows me you just want to disagree... going after a person working for the US gov't (SAM) would be a better plan B to get at Michael then going after a screw-up brother whose death or disappearance could be explained (to others) a myriad of ways. Going after an explosives expert and marksman (Fi) would also be better than going after the brother? Come on...
Old 03-08-09, 06:29 PM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

Originally Posted by wirefan
"Lots"... how about backing this up with 5-10 names?


Have you been watching this show? How often has laying low by going out of town come up?

M: "Sam, go take care of my Mom and make sure she gets out of town"
S: "Michael, what about your brother"
M: "He's already laying low. Did you hit your head a little too hard the last time you took a punch or something?"
Fixed.

Did you want Sam to ask for directions to mom's house, too?

This statement shows me you just want to disagree... going after a person working for the US gov't (SAM)
He's drawing a pension, not working for the feds. It comes up often.

As to Fi, she'd be the first one I tried to take out if I were after Michael, for precisely the reason we saw this episode.

Let's just agree to disagree.
What's the fun in that?
Old 03-08-09, 11:20 PM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

I just assumed that Carla had met Michael's brother and figured Michael would be more relieved than upset if he was taken out.
Old 03-08-09, 11:47 PM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

Originally Posted by WallyOPD
I just assumed that Carla had met Michael's brother and figured Michael would be more relieved than upset if he was taken out.
Old 03-09-09, 01:27 AM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

Originally Posted by Jimmy James
Fixed.
Thanks... when people resort to 'fixing quotes' without the obvious humor (and I'm not talking about the humor of the quote, but the intent as displayed in the sentence following it), it tells you all you need to know about the person. You are somehow equating Sam not knowing that Michael's brother is out of town(BTW - when did Michael tell Sam about this?), with knowing where his mother lives? (or are suggesting that me wanting to cover the brother's status is somehow as silly as Sam not knowing where his Mom lives?).

So apparently, mentioning something twice is stupid?
Or the writers considering that maybe some of the audience may have missed the one episode it was (possibly) brought up in?
Or the writers considering some may have forgotten it?
Or the writers considering that not everyone has JimmyJames inference skills or share his interpretation?

...so basically there was nothing wrong with what I suggested, you just had to twist it into absurdity (and somehow equate it to Sam asking for directions to Michael's Mom's house) to try to strengthen your argument... Your objection to the one line that you deemed needed to be fixed, is that it is too repetitive or implies audience stupidity on the order of Sam asking for directions to the Mom's house? What exactly is wrong with it? (that required you to edit it and then insult)

Originally Posted by Jimmy James
He's drawing a pension, not working for the feds. It comes up often.
You are completely right going after a target who USED TO (my bad) work for the feds and who has a lot of fed buddies is obviously a much better and smarter target than a screw-up brother... thanks for setting me straight on that. Let's see.... going after a screwed-up family member, or potentially pissing off the feds and giving yourself a harder target. And trying to do this in a timely manner to avoid getting clipped yourself by the management team. Yeah I would definitely go after the person with training, lots of buddies, and if you happen to be successful would generate an even longer list of enemies.

-----

So taking a step back... it was lunacy for me to be critical that they did not mention the brother was safe during the show. As it was possibly covered once, several (?) shows ago, bringing it up again would be repetitive, unnecessary or somehow an insult to the intelligent folks watching the show? Having a character (it could have been anyone but the Mom) in the show remind the audience, who may not remember every detail or missed the one show it may have been inferred, or who are not willing to assume that the brother is even out of town (remember you are inferring this; it is not a given fact - you could be right or, gasp, wrong) is not that crazy and should not be equated to Sam needing directions to the Mom's house.

Last edited by wirefan; 03-09-09 at 03:01 AM.
Old 03-09-09, 02:43 AM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

Originally Posted by WallyOPD
I just assumed that Carla had met Michael's brother and figured Michael would be more relieved than upset if he was taken out.
Now that was funny! And a much better argument than...
Old 03-09-09, 08:11 AM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

the writers are secretly removing the brother from the show and you are all screwing that up.
Old 03-09-09, 08:43 AM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

Originally Posted by ChrisHicks
the writers are secretly removing the brother from the show and you are all screwing that up.
Yeah, I'm not going to overanalyze it. It's a fun show, and I'll leave it at that.
Old 03-09-09, 03:02 PM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

'Burn Notice' finale tops cable ratings
USA spy thriller hits series high
By DANIEL FRANKEL

USA's 'Burn Notice' proved it could generate ratings pyrotechnics even against stiff broadcast competish during the first quarter.

USA Network spy thriller "Burn Notice" is now the hottest show on cable. The skein finished its second season Thursday with two series highs: 6.1 million total viewers and 2.7 million adults 18-49.

Starring Jeffrey Donovan and Gabrielle Anwar, "Burn Notice" originally became a hit for USA running in the summer months. Yet the series notably garnered its best numbers in the just-completed second leg of season two by going directly against broadcast competish at 10 p.m. during the first quarter of the year.

On Thursday, the show faced off against an "ER" episode featuring the returns of Noah Wyle and Eriq La Salle, as well as a new episode of CBS' "Eleventh Hour."

While "Burn Notice's" numbers during the latter half of its second season were competitive with those 10 o'clock broadcast dramas, they also outstripped basic cable's incumbent ratings champion, TNT's "The Closer," during its first-quarter run on Monday nights.

Old 03-09-09, 03:08 PM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

Old 03-09-09, 03:42 PM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

Originally Posted by devilshalo
'Burn Notice' finale tops cable ratings
USA spy thriller hits series high
By DANIEL FRANKEL

USA's 'Burn Notice' proved it could generate ratings pyrotechnics even against stiff broadcast competish during the first quarter.

USA Network spy thriller "Burn Notice" is now the hottest show on cable. The skein finished its second season Thursday with two series highs: 6.1 million total viewers and 2.7 million adults 18-49.

Starring Jeffrey Donovan and Gabrielle Anwar, "Burn Notice" originally became a hit for USA running in the summer months. Yet the series notably garnered its best numbers in the just-completed second leg of season two by going directly against broadcast competish at 10 p.m. during the first quarter of the year.

On Thursday, the show faced off against an "ER" episode featuring the returns of Noah Wyle and Eriq La Salle, as well as a new episode of CBS' "Eleventh Hour."

While "Burn Notice's" numbers during the latter half of its second season were competitive with those 10 o'clock broadcast dramas, they also outstripped basic cable's incumbent ratings champion, TNT's "The Closer," during its first-quarter run on Monday nights.

Hellz yeah!
Old 03-09-09, 04:25 PM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

That's great news! Those are higher ratings than some primetime shows on the "bigger" 5 networks.
Old 03-09-09, 06:49 PM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

6.1 million for a cable show? Damn.
Old 03-09-09, 09:31 PM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

I just hope success doesn't breed changes that are destructive to the show. We don't need a Sam spinoff show, for instance.
Old 03-09-09, 09:58 PM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

Originally Posted by Jimmy James
I just hope success doesn't breed changes that are destructive to the show. We don't need a Sam spinoff show, for instance.
I wouldn't mind a spin-off with Dina Meyers' character.
Old 03-12-09, 07:40 AM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

Originally Posted by Jadzia
I wouldn't mind a spin-off with Dina Meyers' character.
True dat. Double true!

Good finale. So glad the show is getting the ratings it deserves!
Old 03-12-09, 08:50 AM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

Originally Posted by Jadzia
I wouldn't mind a spin-off with Dina Meyers' character.
Interesting concept except for the fact that they've already saddled the character with a young son to drag around. That ruins the whole concept in my book.

Great new about the ratings though! Considering Thursday nights are the most competitive night for ratings (at least judging by MY dueling TiVos' season passes), that is pretty amazing. Again let me iterate that I'm exuberant that we only have to wait until June for new episodes!
Old 03-12-09, 05:13 PM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

Originally Posted by Jimmy James
We don't need a Sam spinoff show, for instance.
Bite your tongue, there's always room for more Bruce Campbell.
Old 03-12-09, 09:07 PM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

Originally Posted by AGuyNamedMike
Bite your tongue, there's always room for more Bruce Campbell.
I love Bruce, but I'd rather have the current amount of him bouncing off of Donovan than a whole show he'd be expected to carry.
Old 03-12-09, 11:00 PM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

I like Bruce just as much as all of you, but I personally don't think a show with him as a lead would work. I think he has solid chemistry as a sidekick to Donovan's character and is probably thankful that this show rejuvenated his career.

I mean you can only go so far being primarily known as an actor with a cult following in shitty B movies/random guest and cameo appearances and the Evil Dead stuff.

He's probably grateful to get this type of gig at age 51 and have a steady paycheck for 4-6 months a year.
Old 03-13-09, 07:33 AM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

Originally Posted by rfduncan
Interesting concept except for the fact that they've already saddled the character with a young son to drag around. That ruins the whole concept in my book.

Have you met The Real McCoy? Bring me Terrance Stamp!
Old 03-13-09, 09:14 AM
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Re: Burn Notice -- "Lesser Evil" -- Season 2 Finale -- 3/5/09

Great finale! Loved it!


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