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-   -   Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009 (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/tv-talk/549840-battlestar-galactica-no-exit-2-13-2009-a.html)

pinata242 02-13-09 08:28 AM
Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2158/...0e59cfbd_b.jpg

Spoiler:
While aboard the Cylon Baseship, Anders' condition releases a flood of visions and crucial memories.


Wasn't expecting this to be on the par of the last two and I certainly infer that from the synopsis. I have faith this won't retcon too much ;)

JuryDuty 02-13-09 11:00 AM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Originally Posted by pinata242 (Post 9263977)
Spoiler:
While aboard the Cylon Baseship, Anders' condition releases a flood of visions and crucial memories.


Wasn't expecting this to be on the par of the last two and I certainly infer that from the synopsis. I have faith this won't retcon too much ;)
LOL! That is a lousy synopsis! Oh well, I'm really expecting most the shows this season to be good since they have a definite end date. ...we'll see...

kenbuzz 02-13-09 01:44 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
http://img.systemaxdev.com/productme...-memory-x2.jpg

pinata242 02-13-09 01:48 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
rotfl

dino88 02-13-09 02:57 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Very excited about this episode after that preview. "I remember everything"...we'll see. Actually I'm just as excited every week who am I kidding?

SterlingBen 02-13-09 10:16 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Daniel was an artist, Starbuck was doing those paintings a few episodes back. It is a bit thin.

Patman 02-13-09 10:19 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Holy moly, that was a lot of exposition in one episode. Poor Sam, he probably had more dialogue in this episode than his entire run on this show.

Wait till Ellen and Boomer find out about Saul and Six's baby. Someone is going to want to "jump" away ASAP.

Sanjuro37 02-13-09 10:22 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
I've loved the return of BSG. The first two eps didn't rush pass emotions to get to the next fight, and when that fight came it was bad-ass on the level we expect from the show, but this was like the scene with the Architect in Matrix Reloaded stretched out over 44 minutes. I actually tuned out at the end because it was just too much. I don't know what happened in the last three minutes even though I was staring right at the screen.

dino88 02-13-09 10:31 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
OUCH!! My brain hurts from taking all of that information in.

I noticed that my theory from last week about the ship is getting some more legitimacy.

Too much to discuss about the episode right now, I think I have to watch it again. But how did you guys like the opening? I had to rewind it because I wasn't paying full attention at first.

cornflakeguy 02-13-09 11:42 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
We have ALOT to talk about that was discussed IN THIS episode so Im not Spoilering anything...

So...the final five...aren't Cylons? They are humans who perfected cloning/mind transference...hence Cylons/Resurrection?

Shazam 02-13-09 11:48 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
It was good but holy moly retcon city.

gmanca 02-14-09 01:05 AM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Having got in to BSG at the mid/end-point of Season 3, I can't say for certain what is retconned, but sound like the origin is:

Spoiler:
The 13 tribes consisted of humans and cyclons, who then traveled to Earth at regular speed, with a huge elapse of time between the growth of the Kobol Colonies and the 13th tribe of Cylons going to Earth and settling. Then when the Earth Cylons found out that the twelve tribes would be attacked by Centurions, they agreed to help re-create Resurrection technology for the Centurions if they would stop fighting the other tribes.


But if that's the case then...
Spoiler:
Why did the original 13 tribes create cylons first and then the metal Centurions later? He said that the twelve tribes invented organic memory so does that mean they were humans with the name Cylon, or were they invented? And I thought the 13 tribes were from Earth and then colonized Kobol with one tribe leaving back to Earth?


Great episode though, as far as having to think and second-guess the storyline.

golden_rod 02-14-09 06:34 AM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Originally Posted by Shazam (Post 9266007)
It was good but holy moly retcon city.
How so? They didn't really change any previously established facts within the show. It was just lots of exposition to fill in what we didn't know.

Spoiler:
Hot Dog being Aaron's father = retcon, IMO.


Originally Posted by gmanca (Post 9266080)
Having got in to BSG at the mid/end-point of Season 3, I can't say for certain what is retconned, but sound like the origin is:

Spoiler:
The 13 tribes consisted of humans and cyclons, who then traveled to Earth at regular speed, with a huge elapse of time between the growth of the Kobol Colonies and the 13th tribe of Cylons going to Earth and settling. Then when the Earth Cylons found out that the twelve tribes would be attacked by Centurions, they agreed to help re-create Resurrection technology for the Centurions if they would stop fighting the other tribes.


But if that's the case then...
Spoiler:
Why did the original 13 tribes create cylons first and then the metal Centurions later? He said that the twelve tribes invented organic memory so does that mean they were humans with the name Cylon, or were they invented? And I thought the 13 tribes were from Earth and then colonized Kobol with one tribe leaving back to Earth?


Great episode though, as far as having to think and second-guess the storyline.
Spoiler:
The way I understand it, the 13th tribe was a Cylon tribe, not human at all, created by the humans and/or Gods on Kobol. In the mythology of the show, the 13th tribe leaves Kobol 2,000 years before an environmental event (possibly a flood, according to Pythia) causes the 12 remaining tribes to leave Kobol. Don't forget that in early season two, Head Six tells Baltar that Kobol is very different in meaning to the Cylons than it is to the humans; to the Cylons, it's an evil place where human sacrifice occurred. It's possible to infer that the human sacrifices were part of the attempt to create human-like Cylons, i.e. the Final Five and the inhabitants of Earth.

The 13th tribe was a form of Cylon, as evidenced by the tests they performed on the remains found on Earth, but they are different from the later models of the 12 colonies; for example, they could reproduce. It was said that through their procreation, they lost their capabilities of resurrecting with each successive generation, so the Final Five were tasked with re-creating that ability. Then Earth is attacked, by whom it isn't entirely clear yet (other Cylons?), and the Five resurrect in a ship positioned near Earth.

The Five then embark on a journey to find the other 12 tribes in an effort to warn against the creation of AI, but they don't have FTL capabilities, so it takes them 2,000 years to find the colonies. When they do, they discover the ongoing Cylon War. They offer to help advance the Centurions in biological form if the Centurions agree to end the war. Then the skin-jobs of their creation turn against them to complete the annihilation of humanity.


It was very exposition-heavy, but damn, I loved every minute of it. I was geeking out like CRAZY.

Josh-da-man 02-14-09 07:14 AM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Originally Posted by SterlingBen (Post 9265888)
Daniel was an artist, Starbuck was doing those paintings a few episodes back. It is a bit thin.
Daniel sounds like he could be her father, making Starbuck the first human-Cylon hybrid.

It actually sort of fits... there's the missing number seven, "twelve models" - only twelve if one of them is no longer active, and it sort of makes sense for there to be thirteen Cylons (with thirteen colonies, one of them missing).

Baron Of Hell 02-14-09 07:30 AM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Originally Posted by Patman (Post 9265889)
Wait till Ellen and Boomer find out about Saul and Six's baby. Someone is going to want to "jump" away ASAP.
I don't think Cylons care to much about sharing people they like.

Baron Of Hell 02-14-09 07:38 AM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Originally Posted by cornflakeguy (Post 9265999)
We have ALOT to talk about that was discussed IN THIS episode so Im not Spoilering anything...

So...the final five...aren't Cylons? They are humans who perfected cloning/mind transference...hence Cylons/Resurrection?
No they are cylons that created resurrection. They did away with it because the figured out how to reproduce like humans. However, they brought it back when their classic metal versions nuked their planet. They used the resurrection system to escape where they met the 12 colonies cylons. The 5 talked them into ending the war in exchange for a resurrection ship. During the 40 odd years of peace the 5 created the fleshy versions of cylons that were made in their own image.

Red Dog 02-14-09 08:00 AM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
I am so fraking confused about who built whom. I need a flow chart to understand what all that explanation was in this episode.

Josh-da-man 02-14-09 09:01 AM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
As far as I can make of Sam's ramblings --

It all started on Kobol.

The Kobol humans built Cylons to use as robotic servants. Then there was some kind of catastrophe on Kobol (natural? Cylon uprising?) and Kobol was abandoned. Thirteen colonies were founded, twelve with humans, and one with Cylons on a place they called "Earth." (I'm still not convinced that the "Earth" Starbuck led them to is/was out Earth.)

On Earth, the Cylons "evolved" to become more human-like, and there was some kind of war on Earth that wiped them all out. In the meantime, the twelve colonies started making Cylons again.

Back on Earth, there were five skinjobs (Ellen, Saul, Tori, Galen, and Sam) who saw the war coming and developed resurrection technology. After the war, they left Earth at sublight speeds to return to the twelve colonies to warn them not to start making Cylons again because they will eventually rise up against their masters.

They didn't get there in time, and arrived in the middle of the human-Cylon civil war.

In order to end the war, the "final five" gave the Cylons resurrection technology and helped them create "skinjobs." (We had already seen the Cylons attempting to make themselves appear human in Razor.)

One of the skinjob models, John Cavil, resented his human form and erased the memories of the final five and sent them to live as humans among the colonials in order to make them suffer.

I'm assuming that the upcoming TV movie, "The Plan," will flesh this backstory out in detail.

Shazam 02-14-09 11:03 AM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Originally Posted by golden_rod (Post 9266196)
How so? They didn't really change any previously established facts within the show. It was just lots of exposition to fill in what we didn't know.
Just the part where Cavill and Boomer knew who the final Cylon was 10 months ago and never bothered to tell anyone.

Cardiff Giant11 02-14-09 11:32 AM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
interesting, albeit confusing. Hopefully it becomes clearer the next few episodes.

aintnosin 02-14-09 11:56 AM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Originally Posted by Shazam (Post 9266411)
Just the part where Cavill and Boomer knew who the final Cylon was 10 months ago and never bothered to tell anyone.
Cavil's motivation for NOT wanting it know was pretty clearly explained.

chanster 02-14-09 12:14 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Originally Posted by Josh-da-man (Post 9266297)
As far as I can make of Sam's ramblings --

It all started on Kobol.

The Kobol humans built Cylons to use as robotic servants. Then there was some kind of catastrophe on Kobol (natural? Cylon uprising?) and Kobol was abandoned. Thirteen colonies were founded, twelve with humans, and one with Cylons on a place they called "Earth." (I'm still not convinced that the "Earth" Starbuck led them to is/was out Earth.)

On Earth, the Cylons "evolved" to become more human-like, and there was some kind of war on Earth that wiped them all out. In the meantime, the twelve colonies started making Cylons again.

Back on Earth, there were five skinjobs (Ellen, Saul, Tori, Galen, and Sam) who saw the war coming and developed resurrection technology. After the war, they left Earth at sublight speeds to return to the twelve colonies to warn them not to start making Cylons again because they will eventually rise up against their masters.

They didn't get there in time, and arrived in the middle of the human-Cylon civil war.

In order to end the war, the "final five" gave the Cylons resurrection technology and helped them create "skinjobs." (We had already seen the Cylons attempting to make themselves appear human in Razor.)

One of the skinjob models, John Cavil, resented his human form and erased the memories of the final five and sent them to live as humans among the colonials in order to make them suffer.

I'm assuming that the upcoming TV movie, "The Plan," will flesh this backstory out in detail.
The war on "pseudo-Earth" is crucial, because it mirrors the war on Caprica. The pseudo earth folks started making centurion type models, who rose up like they did in Caprica. Thats why they found Centurion looking bodies in the debris in the pseudo Earth. Somehow the five kept the secret of resurrection alive, and were able to survive the holocaust. They then left pseudo Earth on their own quest to find a tribe - basically a reverse trip to Caprica, found that the Caprcians had their own centurion problem and attempted to end the war by giving the Caprican Cylons resurrection technology and creating skinjobs? Thats how I read it.

bwvanh114 02-14-09 12:15 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
I liked PC-guy as the neurosurgeon.

Sean O'Hara 02-14-09 12:25 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Originally Posted by golden_rod (Post 9266196)
How so? They didn't really change any previously established facts within the show. It was just lots of exposition to fill in what we didn't know.
-Cavil's always known the identity of the Final Five.

-Ellen's been on the Basestar since the liberation of New Caprica.

-Boomer knew about Ellen when the Cylon Civil War began.

-There's a brain surgeon in the fleet. Remember when Doc Cottle was the only doctor for the entire fleet? Now we've seen two additional MDs.

-It was all Cavil's dastardly plan for Anders to become a resistance leader, and Tigh to be the XO of the one surviving Battlestar, etc.

-Tigh never served in the Cylon War.

Only the last one had the least bit of set-up, and even that was laid out after Moore decided to make teh Final Five fleet members.

Phod 02-14-09 12:28 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Ellen not being on the basestar since the liberation of New Caprica was an established fact within the show?

As far as the surgeon goes, Cottle could have trained someone offscreen during the last year. It's possible!

dino88 02-14-09 12:52 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Originally Posted by bwvanh114 (Post 9266529)
I liked PC-guy as the neurosurgeon.
For fucks sake, I kept seeing people referring to the "PC guy" on either here or different message boards and I had no idea what they were talking about. It just clicked, man I'm an idiot. You have to love DVR and being able to fast forward through the commercials.

Sean O'Hara 02-14-09 01:04 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Originally Posted by Phod (Post 9266553)
Ellen not being on the basestar since the liberation of New Caprica was an established fact within the show?
Moore admits that he didn't decide the identity of the Penultimate Four until the end of Season 3, and the Final Cylon even later still. So to reveal that Ellen is a Cylon and has been with Cavil for the last dozen episodes is the very model of retroactive continuity.

As far as the surgeon goes, Cottle could have trained someone offscreen during the last year. It's possible!
Yes, Cottle could've trained additional doctors. But he could not train someone who is now an expert brain surgeon when he himself is not.

El Clerk 02-14-09 01:04 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Another excellent ep i think... a bit confusing but no less excellent
Gotta agree with bwvanh114 the PC-Guy Cameo/role was a nice touch
Can't wait for what's coming next....
Spoiler:
I reckon that at the end of the ep when Sam doesn't wake up it's because he downloaded into another body

Phod 02-14-09 01:22 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Originally Posted by Sean O'Hara (Post 9266601)
Moore admits that he didn't decide the identity of the Penultimate Four until the end of Season 3, and the Final Cylon even later still. So to reveal that Ellen is a Cylon and has been with Cavil for the last dozen episodes is the very model of retroactive continuity.
But does it destroy any established continuity?

No.

Obviously a lot of this plot was written way after season 2. But why should that hampen the enjoyment if everything fits within the confines of the series?

You must hate The Empire Strikes Back too.

Orbi-Wan Techno 02-14-09 01:25 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Originally Posted by El Clerk (Post 9266603)
Can't wait for what's coming next....
Spoiler:
I reckon that at the end of the ep when Sam doesn't wake up it's because he downloaded into another body
Or
Spoiler:
his consciousness is stored someplace, and his brain is now an empty vessel waiting to take it?

DarkestPhoenix 02-14-09 02:59 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Originally Posted by Shazam (Post 9266411)
Just the part where Cavill and Boomer knew who the final Cylon was 10 months ago and never bothered to tell anyone.
It was pretty clear that Cavil knew the F5 the entire time, since he was behind their 'exile'. That's why he made it 'illegal' to even THINK about them.

He probably told Boomer since he was bonin' her. Her model's like an interrogator, getting information from everyone, but her only move is opening her legs and puttin' out.

DarkestPhoenix 02-14-09 03:01 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Originally Posted by dino88 (Post 9266587)
For fucks sake, I kept seeing people referring to the "PC guy" on either here or different message boards and I had no idea what they were talking about. It just clicked, man I'm an idiot. You have to love DVR and being able to fast forward through the commercials.
After pulling that bullet from Anders' brain, I wish he would have said, "I'd like to see a Mac do THAT!"

Of course, Mac, the little bastard he is, probably would just say, "I could do it without, you know, making the guy permanently brain-dead."

DarkestPhoenix 02-14-09 03:04 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Originally Posted by El Clerk (Post 9266603)
Another excellent ep i think... a bit confusing but no less excellent
Gotta agree with bwvanh114 the PC-Guy Cameo/role was a nice touch
Can't wait for what's coming next....
Spoiler:
I reckon that at the end of the ep when Sam doesn't wake up it's because he downloaded into another body
Why is this spoilerized? Anyway, I doubt it...resurrection was destroyed. Do find it interesting that the nurse said, "He's not here." Kinda makes you think he IS somewhere else. Also, I found that line to be very out of place...I don't think anyone's bedside manner is that shitty.

aintnosin 02-14-09 03:34 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
I think for Anders to download, someone's going to have to euthanize him. My votes on Tigh for the dirty job.

Count Dooku 02-14-09 05:37 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
The brain surgeon could have been on Pegasus, so when the series started and they said Cottle was the only doctor it was true.

mikehunt 02-14-09 05:43 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
I loved the exchange between chief and adama
"I'm still a cylon"
"so's my XO"

milo bloom 02-14-09 05:53 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Originally Posted by DarkestPhoenix (Post 9266781)
Why is this spoilerized? Anyway, I doubt it...resurrection was destroyed. Do find it interesting that the nurse said, "He's not here." Kinda makes you think he IS somewhere else. Also, I found that line to be very out of place...I don't think anyone's bedside manner is that shitty.

That character has been shown already this season to be very anti-Cylon. It's tacky, but not unexpected.


Wow, just a ton of info here, definitely going need time to digest it all.

Also, possible spoiler about Daniel
Spoiler:
From what's been released about the upcoming prequel series "Caprica", there's a very prominent character named Daniel

mdc3000 02-14-09 05:56 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Fucking awesome episode with TONS of info that really puts a lot of questions into play but makes things pretty damn interesting. This show is going to go out with a bang, which is great to see.

mikehunt 02-14-09 06:25 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Originally Posted by Shazam (Post 9266411)
Just the part where Cavill and Boomer knew who the final Cylon was 10 months ago and never bothered to tell anyone.
I've long suspected caval knew all along
some of his pervious conversations with 3 when she was killing herself repeatedly even hinted at it

DarkestPhoenix 02-14-09 07:48 PM
Re: Battlestar Galactica -- "No Exit" -- 2/13/2009
 
Originally Posted by milo bloom (Post 9267007)
That character has been shown already this season to be very anti-Cylon. It's tacky, but not unexpected.
Maybe, but not everyone caring around the bed was a Cylon. If there was someone with that attitude against me, I sure as hell wouldn't want them anywhere NEAR my medical operation.


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