Patrick_N

What? Another show that is surprised by itīs reneval and doesnīt know what to do with itself? Methinks this happend before! Hehe.

TGM

Um, ya.

This is all well and good and all, but Tim Kring is sort of treating us (the Heroes audience) like an abused housewife, ie: smackin' us around, then later coming back and saying "oh baby, I'm sorry... you know I didn't mean it, I'll try better." I recall him apologizing for the lackluster S1 finale promising to do better, now after giving us 1/2 a second season of shit, he AGAIN comes out and apologizes... stop Ike Turnering use Tim!

Patrick_N

Well put. Though I think that most creators/producers of new shows are a bit shocked when they get renewed and really think 'great, i just gave it my best, i've got nothing left....'

dare i say lost... i dare.

Gunde

I agree. Matt's bedside talk to Molly this week was painful to watch

hahn

I don't think the problems that he listed are what's making the show bad. I don't mind slow story pacing. I don't mind having slow introductions to characters and having them become relevant to the main storyline later. I don't mind having the "big picture" revealed later in the season.

My problem is with the characters doing or saying idiotic things. For example, Parkman suddenly learning how to control things outside his mind just because he goes all emo on his father. Example two is Peter and Caitlyn getting knocked off their feet and then stripped and showered against their will (while Peter very dramatically screams in protest) simply because they're healthy out on the street? Why isn't anyone asking them how they're out there and not getting sick? And HOW does a frickin shower help clean them of a virus?? Example three is how ridiculously horrified Mohinder seems at the suggestion of injecting Parkman's father with the virus when he knows that his blood will cure him. It's kind of hard to feel ethically torn about that, and the character ends up looking like an idiot when he IS all conflicted about it. Yes, the new strain is resistant, but Mohinder doesn't know that and so he shouldn't have been that resistant to that plan.

And those are just examples from ONE episode. Each episode has examples with lack of credible lines or actions by the characters. As I've argued multiple times before - the writing team SUCKS. Tim Kring sucks for not catching these very obvious flaws in logic. He needs to watch the Buffy and Angel series to learn how to do long story arcs and make the characters act in believable ways. The universe he created can defy the laws of biology and physics. But they can't defy the laws of human behavior and common sense.

Jimmy James

What?

How on Earth can anyone complain about the Parkman scene when this is hardly the first time we have seen a progression of powers of that nature? What do you think happened when HRG broke Parkman out and had Ted create an EMP? What do you think happened when Peter realized he could control his power up on the roof with the invisible man? It's not as though it was even somebody telling Parkman he could do it was the first time he contemplated this ability -- his father told him he'd be able to do that stuff! I imagine he had time to consider it.

Viruses can be spread by skin to skin contact depending on the virus. If you're worried about a virus that has killed a warehouse full of people in a week, you're going to go to extreme measures. I'm half surprised they didn't just kill them.

Finally, Mohinder showed concern about the use of the virus due to its potential to mutate before Parkman's dad showed up. That was apparently the whole point (so far) to having Micah's cousin be a character.

Doughboy

That's nice that he's apologizing, but he already said he was sorry about the Season 1 finale and did nothing to atone for it so I'm not holding my breath that things are going to improve. Plus how can he do anything now with the strike? Volume 2 is pretty much done(at least in scripted form), so it could be a long time before Kring can even attempt to turn the show around.

Face it, Heroes was a one hit wonder. And it wasn't even that memorable of a hit to begin with.

Pistol Pete

Can a kindly mod place a spoiler warning in the title. It is not clear until you start reading the thread that it involves a detailed description of season 2.

thanks

DVD Josh

There is absolutely no other reasonable interpretation.

superdeluxe

I agree with pretty much all of his criticisims

CPA-ESQ.

I'm impressed with his comments... Good to know that someone out there is listening to the fans and will work to fix the problems.

to him

Tracer Bullet

I think criticizing Heroes is about as productive as pissing in the wind. It was not a great show last season, it's not a great show this season, and it's never going to be a great show. What it is is stupidly entertaining, and that's all I want out of it.

Flave

Actually, I think the show would benefit greatly if they would just kill her off entirely. They seem to want to center the show around her for some reason but she's much too weak a character to carry this load. (Weak in the narrative sense, not the superpower sense.)

And I really don't get the "pretty" part. To my taste, she's the least attractive "starlet" I think I've ever seen.

riley_dude

I've been wondering since the premiere if the creators were aware of the problems that fans were having with the show.
Now I know.
Good for Kring

Jimmy James

How do you kill off the healing girl? I don't think you can. It would have been nice for them to have sent the whole family save HRG into hiding, though. He'd have been freed up to kick ass without the stupid Popcopy cover job, and they could have had him going about messing up the company's plans driving the Rogue. When they had something for Claire to do, they could have brought her back.

Shazam

Stick a metal pole through her head, put her on a rocket and launch it towards the sun.

dpz301

that's pretty interesting to hear. it will be interesting to see how he changes things to get back to the 'old' heroes.

hahn

It's a BIG mistake for Kring to listen to the audience as if we know what we're talking about. A good writer writes what he thinks is a good story. You start writing for the audience and your story starts to lose focus and purpose. You never saw David Kelley, Joss Whedon, or JJ Abrams take a poll before they wrote their shows. If they did that, the "Once More With Feeling" for BTVS would've never been written. So either Tim Kring is a good enough story creator to steer Heroes in the right direction, or he's not. Listening to the audience will NOT fix the show.

Mercury&Solace

Thats all bullshit, you HAVE to give fans what they want, I don't know how many times I need to say that, if you don't give fans what they want, they quit watching, period. The ratings prove that. Look at Lost, last season of 24, perfect example. Ratings have slipped and slipped over the years because they drag shit out, and don't give fans what they want. Heroes is a mess right now, I hope he can fix it.
Kring is a smart man for at least acknowledging these issues, that takes some balls in ego happy Hollywood now a days to look at what isn't working.


I give Kring some props for addressing these issues, most writers/creators/producers could give a shit what the fans want/think, Kring got points in my book for doing this. The issues the OP posted, and Kring acknowledging it is very cool....its about time too, because this season has been really bad so far and a complete mess.

hahn

Just so we're clear, I do also think the show has gone into the crapper (though I never really thought much of the writing last season either). I just disagree that addressing specific audience complaints will fix the show. But you and I probably have different ideas about what sucks about the show.

If you think what I'm saying is bullshit, then give me ONE single example of an audience complaining about a show, the writer changing it to suit the audience's "wish list", and then the show became good again. The writer is either good or he/she is not. The audience may know what they don't like. But they don't have a clue as to what a show SHOULD be. If you know so much about what the show should be, why aren't you a writer for a TV show? You obviously think you know what makes a show great, right? The fact that Tim Kring thought that this was an original concept when he pitched it to NBC shows how little background he has in this genre. I just think he's the wrong person for this show.

As an example, I can tell you the biggest thing I dislike about the show: I don't really care what happens to any of the characters. And that's because they have absolutely no depth whatsoever. I find it impossible to empathize or sympathize with any of them. I'm willing to bet that most people who are not feeling the love for this show, think the same thing. However, I haven't the foggiest idea how Tim Kring should go about fixing this. I want to be wowed by what he comes up with, not by what the masses have created. And if he can't do it (and I've suspected this from Season 1, Episode 1), then NBC needs to find a head writer who can.

starseed1981

Now, if he will only agree to kill some characters off.

starseed1981

Not to jump in on this... but isn't that the point of gallup polling? In terms of specific examples, every single daytime soap opera on TV has done this. In terms of primetime, last season of Lost was taylored to the fans wishes (not in terms of storyline but in terms of pace and other things according to the creators at last year comic-con).

But I think you are both right in the end. Let's all just be happy the creator is being honest with his fanbase.

dvd182

I somewhat agree with this. One thing I like about movies is that they can be completely unforgiving towards what the audience wants. For those 2 hours, you are forced to see how the entire plot plays out. There isn't an intermission and the rest of the story is altered to suit what the general feelings among the audience are.

Then again, seasons and plots and extended and cut short due to money, pressure and actors all the time, so who knows how much unfiltered story we see anyway.

musick

I just caught wind of this article today
nice to see that the show has been back on pace that last couple weeks

DJariya

If TV Writers and Producers listened to every single fan's wish list, show's wouldn't get made period. For every 1000 fans that want more special effects and CGI, there are probably 5,000 more that just want a good story. Hypothetically, do you honestly think Kring would listen to 1,000 fans who want some fucking CGI Monster added to the show? What if 5,000 fans want Jack Bauer to fight Osama Bin Laden? Do you really think a studio let alone a TV writer would green light some horseshit B.S. like that?

A good TV writer just needs to create a good compelling story that makes sense. You also need to be a good salesman in order to convince a studio to fork over millions of dollars to produce your vision. I would say he or she needs to have a good education on mainstream pop culture and what people are interested in watching.