movielib

Showtime, 9:00pm CDT

I'm looking forward to this one. We've had enough threads on the Evil Empire.

Next week: Breast Hysteria. Should get good ratings.

DRG

Sounds like a good one. I like when they actually go out of their way to debunk popular misconceptions (although I have no real stance on the Wal-Mart thing one way or another) rather than just build a show around a too-vague overall concept (like religion) or some really kooky idea that no rational person actually believes in (thus making the debunking too obvious).

das Monkey

If you recorded this, check your DVRs. Showtime's DD audio feed is dead on the SD DirecTV channel (at least mine), so you may want to schedule a West Coast airing if you have access to it or at least confirm that your audio's OK before you miss a repeat opportunity. I have to wait another 3 hours before I can bitch about this episode.

das

Michael T Hudson

I had the same problem. I noticed I can change to the other audio stream but it was after I had deleted it. I have it set to record on West. Grrrrrrrr.

das Monkey

If you have a TiVo, it likely only records one audio stream anyway. If you noticed it live, you could flip over; but once it's recorded you're pretty much screwed.

das

DeputyDave

I loved this episode. I fully admit that I shop at Wal-Mart weekly. Why? Because they have the lowest prices for the things I'm looking for. Since we don't have a "Super" Wal-Mart in San Diego (because of asshat activists) I am also forced to also buy most of my groceries at a much more expensive supermarket every week (the things that both carry- bread, milk, cereal, soda - are much cheaper at Wal-Mart).

When I got out of the military in '93 the company I worked for went out of business, and I needed a job imeadiately. I ended up working at Wal-Mart for six months and though I left when I found a better job, I appriciate them keeping my family off the streets (it was close there).

Bravo Penn and Teller, and screw the asshats who say I should pay more.

jonw9

I didn't really expect P&T to be pro Wal-Mart, but it was good seeing the other side for a change.

I worked at Wal-Mart for a period while going to college, I didn't experience any of the stuff that people proclaim.

I would shop there more too, but the one by us is usually packed with people, so I would rather spend a bit more money and not have to interact with society.

movielib

I knew they'd be pro-Wal-Mart. But that's actually not what they are. They are pro-free market and that's why they attacked the crazy shirt people, the filmmaker and the politicians who all want to legislate away Wal-Mart's right to conduct business freely as long as they don't violate anyone's rights.

I think this was one of their best programs. It was focused and the subject was well-suited to the half-hour format.

MovieExchange

I enjoy the show, but I've noticed a progressive change towards them peddling their own bullshit over the seasons.

The first year was good, with them presenting facts that supported their side. The only problem was that they focussed only on the lunatics that supported the other point of view, and completely left out any rational point of view that did not support their beliefs.

Over the years they've started to parrot off the very bullshit that they claim to debunk, but if it supports their side they're fine with it. That's great for entertainment purposes (Rush Limbaugh has made a fortune out of it), but don't try to use their show as a basis for your arguments.

Deftones

I liked it. But, even though they addressed the sweatshops, it seems to me they just glossed over it. Like, what are you going to do. If you want low prices, we need them to keep using child labor.

das Monkey

I can't say I care that much about this issue one way or the other, but I think they did a pretty good job. I rarely shop at Wal-Mart -- too crowded with pushy people and their annoying kids -- and I've never worked there, but I don't see what the big deal is. You could wipe Wal-Mart off the face of the Earth, and it's not going to change capitalism or the free market. I'm not sure how much I agree with the "our sweatshops are better than other sweatshops" logic, but I can see both sides of that issue.

All in all, a pretty solid episode. Those Hel-Mart people were hilarious. They sit there mocking the social status of people who shop at Wal-Mart, yet it's questionable whether their own family tree has any branches. It would be nice if they wouldn't dig up the most pathetic people to represent the opposing side, but that's the humor of the show, so I guess we have to deal with it.

das

movielib

Uh, they did make the point that the sweatshops were better than the alternatives in those sorry-ass countries. The more we invest in them and trade with them and the more their own governments leave their citizens alone to develop, the faster they will catch up to us and the sooner the sweatshops will be gone. Personally, I'd love to see a world where the rest of Asia, Africa and South America could develop like Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, Hong Kong and Singapore have. The prices may be higher then but the whole world will be much wealthier and we'll all be able to afford it.

Brent_MN

I got that overall message, too, but you can't discount the fact that if Penn wasn't doing what he's doing, he would be a greeter at Wal-Mart.

Also, I haven't seen this show more than a couple times, so in the end when Teller has the ladies taking off their shirts, is that common?

It was nice to see some lovely non-white bewbs for once. And convinced me that Teller gets more action than Penn.

jonw9

Yes, they typically throw in some gratuitous boobage each episode.

jedidiah

Making it tough to show an otherwise great show to my parents... :P

Mordred

As soon as they brought up the whole sweatshop angle I got angry, not because I disagreed but because I realized instantly they could have made a whole 30 minute show on the subject.

The misconceptions about sweatshops here are pretty bad. I'm sure there are some truly awful ones, but for the most part they pay tons better than any other jobs in those countries and the employees are begging for more to open up so that other family members can go to work there.

This was the best episode they've had since season 2. Season 3 was almost uniformly terrible but hopefully they're getting things back on track.

boredsilly

Your momma has 'em and your pops probably loves em, so have at it.

mrhan

LOL

Deftones

Uh, I know. The fact remains, kids shouldn't be doing labor, period. It just irks me that they talked about the child labor stuff, but they justified it as being necessary for Wal-Mart to give us these lower prices.

Phod

In the episode I watched, they didn't justify child labor as a means of giving us lower prices, they justified it as a means that if the kids weren't working, they would be prostituting or starving. They also backed up the fact that most of these workers make more than the median income of their country.

What episode did you watch?

DVD Josh

Deftones, this is what I would have posted in response to your post. I also thought that you missed that point.

movielib

What Phod said.

And it's all well and good to say "kids shouldn't be doing labor, period." Unfortunately it's not possible until a society becomes wealthy enough so that it isn't necessary. (It wasn't possible in pre-industrial England or the colonies/early U.S. either). In today's world there is no reason why all societies can't reach that point and in much less time than it took us. The only thing stopping them is usually their own governments. Blame those governments, not Wal-Mart. If the kids weren't making products that Wal-Mart (or someone else) buys they would be even worse off. By providing those jobs indirectly, Wal-Mart is helping to speed the process of eventually eliminating the need for child labor.

If I could wave a magic wand and wish away all child labor and sweat shops I would. Unfortunately, the world doesn't work that way.

movielib

And he'd be the best damn greeter they ever had!

Groucho

This was a good episode, probably the best since "Recycling". I agreed with almost everything.

One thing that I did notice, however: they based a lot of what they were talking about on Wal-Mart's treatment of full time workers. What they didn't mention is that Wal-Mart will frequently entice people by quoting their full-time wages and benefits, but hire them part time -- and keep them "semi full time" but only having them work 35 hours a week so that they don't have to give them the extras.

Of course, this is a practice among nearly all retailers, it's not unique to Wal-Mart -- but I thought it was only fair to give the full story here.

Deftones

So the end justifies the means, then?

Child labor is bad, but it's not bad when you'd be starving or prostituting. Look, I understand the issues that many of these countries have. But, to use that as the justification for child labor is still wrong. The whole idea of it is wrong.