See I thought the whole cast was pretty standout in Roswell, particularly after the first season. It wasn't just one or two characters who you saw grow, it was all of them - Max, Liz, Michael, Maria, Isabel, Alex, Kyle and even Sherriff Valenti. That's what was so great about it. I could relate to Max as much as I could Michael, or even Kyle.
IMHO, a far better show than Smallville - which borrowed heavily from it,
even more so than it did Buffy. The closest thing to it on the air currently would be Veronica Mars, from what I've seen so far, which is why I'm liking that show so much. In fact, starting S2 tonight, having just picked up the DVD's today.

I was so wrapped up in Roswell, but I've forgotten much of it since I haven't seen a single episode since it originally aired.

Just curious, but in what way did Smallville borrow from Roswell? If anything Roswell borrowed the from Superman which is what Smallville originates from. The style of Smallville though seems to be much more of a Buffy & X-Files clone/combination. I'm trying to rack my brain to think of how Smallville & Roswell are alike at all and all I'm getting is that both have aliens and a long will they be together or not romance right from the beginning (Max and Liz/Clark & Lana). Aside from that I just don't see what is being borrowed. Perhaps you could enlighten me. :)

I'm going to have to check out season 2. I actually can't remember if I've seen it or not. It's been several years since I saw the first season. I should probably rewatch that one too. Maybe I will sometime after I check out 24 season 5 and Lost Season 2.

Why are we talking about Smallville?

Ew.

In season 2, the really upped the Sci-fi angle over the romance.

But as for what I'm refering to, it's stylistically as much as story. For one, the use of a lot of popular songs. Roswell, more than any other show this style which has come before or followed it, was the first where I really noticed it. 6 to 8 a show, and they would usually very much play into the mood of what was happening on screen. I know, because I used to help identify all these songs for another website. Now it seems like nothing, as almost every show does this - but they really were the first to push that envelope. Buffy had music, but nowhere near as much. Smallville, in it's first season particularly, re-used a lot of the same music that had already been used prior in Roswell.

Story wise, true, there's the whole "I'm an alien, with great powers, and have to keep it a secret" angle. They also totally molded the Clark/Lana romance on Max and Liz - where he had a crush on her since they were little kids, but she never knew it... until. In the comics, that story line just didn't exist that way.

I also firmly believe that someone at Warners Brothers came up with the genius idea of realizing they had a similar intellectual story property they could tell with Superman/Superboy/Smallville - and since Time-Warner owns DC comics - they wouldn't have to pay additional money to another studio (in this case Fox, would made Roswell) for it. I think it's also part of the reason why WB let Roswell go, the same season that Smallville debuted. No sense in having two shows that are virtually the same, but not related, airing on the same network. They even put Smallville head to head time slot wise against Roswell that first year, too.

But to wrap this up, and get back on topic, because Roswell came first in airing on TV, I always view Smallville as pale comparison to it. I even remember my wife one day, commenting on the first season of Smallville - "This show seems like a clone of Roswell, only it's a teen Superman, and not as good".

Being a huge Joss Whedon fan, I thought it only fitting that I should pop my forum cherry, so to speak, here in the Buffy thread.

I came late to the party where Buffy is concerned. I had seen the movie many years earlier, and while I had enjoyed it, it wasn't enough to make me want to see the series. It wasn't until the 6th season that I started watching. One fateful day, October 1st, 2002, I happened to be washing dishes while watching TV when a special came on about the show and it's move to UPN. I was too lazy to dry my hands so I could change the channel, so I continued to watch as I finished the dishes. It looked pretty interesting so I watched the season premiere which aired immediately after the special. I was hooked. I then branched out into watching Angel. Now, here it is 4 years later, I've seen every episode, own all the seasons of both shows on DVD, and (due to my brain's bizarre ability to absorb useless trivia) have become quite a Whedonverse expert. Though I like both shows, I'm also one of the people that prefer Angel over Buffy. I thought the way Buffy ended was great, but Angel's left me wanting more. I'm looking forward to the Joss Whedon penned Buffy "Season Eight" comic book series that is coming out soon.

I officially stopped understanding buffy & her psyche about midway through season 6.

Thank you!

Finally someone agrees with me on that storyline.

Dude, where have you been? Lots of other people have always agreed with you on that issue. :lol: Maybe not all, but there have always been plenty who do. :)

However, if fit in with the theme of the season and the metaphor was more realistic than what some wanted it to be . IF that had gone with the latter it wouldn't have fit in with the theme of the season and would have had no symbolic meaning.

BTW, DarkEssenz, Buffy's a chick. You're not supposed to understand them. :)
She's pretty much You can read all that Dark Essenz. It's spoilerized for some of the others.

How far along are you now on both series?

Here's something I'd like to ask all of you.

It goes back to the end of season 2, so no need to spoiler tag:

"Becoming" , the two-parter where Buffy and Angel have their final showdown, just as Angel plots to suck the world into hell using a long-dead demon's dormant power...

The scene in the library where Buffy and Willow deliver the translated gypsy curse to Giles is the subject of much concern for me:

Whose side were you on in the argument of that scene?

-Buffy wanted Angel back (natch). That's all that mattered and didn't blame him for his evil ways.

-Willow sided with Buffy and was eager to try out some magick, plus she always seemed to have her head wrapped around that dreamy romantic life that Buffy and Angel lead.

-Giles seemed to grasp onto the idea that restoring Angel's soul was Jenny Calendar's last wish.

-Xander seemed to be the only SANE, RATIONAL person there, and could not understand how the others would want Angel to live, and didn't care about the horrible things he did...all so Buffy could get her boyfriend back.

I have always sided with Xander in that scene, and was the only time I didn't like Giles...what the hell was he thinking - actually turning against Xander like that, when Xander made it perfectly clear that Angel needed to die for killing the woman Giles loved?

I just hated that scene because everyone BUT Xander was thinking straight...so who did you side with in that scene?

Ditto. I was ok with the storyline. I thought played out well.

Ditto again. I always sided with Xander, though I think he did it what he did for selfish reasons.

Still on season 2 angel, and more then halfway in Buffy S6.

I thought it was Buffy's call. Her boyfriend, her job, her decision. Willow gave her the option, but didn't force it on her. Giles waited until the calls were in and then (IMO) calmly reminded Buffy of just how horrible Angelus was. But still let her make the call. Xander was acting like Gunn was with Fred at the beginning of season three; arrogant.

That having been said, I wish Xander had made his case with less emotion. It just made it too easy for Buffy to write his points off as jealousy. Contrast his behavior here with when Buffy wanted to kill Faith in s3. He said he was afraid of losing her, but still let her make the decision.

Most certainly selfish reasons. Fair to say he was a bit jealous of Angel, too. These were the days when he still pined over Buffy.

Hard to say...Its difficult for me to insert myself into the tragic circumstances that were put forward in that episode. Several times throughout Buffy it appears that the scooby gang (Buffy in particular) suffer from a lack of "vulcan mentality" or rational sacrifice for the greater good.




As we see later

Actually,

I'm sorry. I can't take you seriously anymore.

That was just too ridiculous.

Hannigan was fucking pathetic in every sense of the word.

Quite possibly the worst change of character on that show.

You seem to have this need to disagree with everything I say, and this is the latest...and lamest. I can't say anything without you disagreeing or trying to shoot it down...If you want to be the be-all, end-all authority on all things Buffy on DVDTalk, find someone else's opinion to belittle.

I am midway thru Season 4 of Buffy and Seaosn 1 of Angel. So much BLACK! Whose post can I read!?! :lol:

You can't take me seriously? :lol: Out of respect I won't mention the things you've done or said for you to not be taken seriously.

So let me get this straight. By stating MY opinion that I liked Willow's character at the end of season 6 a bit more than Angel's near the end of season 2 of Buffy I am belittling your opinion simply because I thought her acting was a bit better than Boreanaz early in his acting career? Geez. Fragile much? I have NO clue how you read that and had it come off as belittling your opinion. We disagree and that is all. There's no belittling going on regarding Angelus and None. If you want to create that in your mind or believe that to be true there's nothing I can do. If you insult Buffy with something I disagree with I'm going to state MY opinion regarding it. That's what a message forum is for man.

YOU are the only one doing the belittling which makes you seem like a bit of a hypocrite. I have not once said something like what you said above. I never said I can't take your opinion seriously even though it has crossed my mind a few times when it comes to Buffy or Whedon in general.

Now, remember, the only belittling was an attempt by you. I simply stated an opinon that contrasted with yours about Angel. God forbid. Maybe it was becuase I forgot to add the ", IMO" part. Was that it? :)

I'll state it again and remember this is my opinion only. Hannigan's acting as was better than Boreanaz as in season 2. Not so much that she dwarfed him or anything, but it was better to me, maybe because I You preferred his; That's fine. I never said your opinion was wrong, though be your comment it sure seems like I did. :lol: Maybe I should pull a Nick Martin and tell you I can't take your opinion seriously anymore and how you are belittling me simply because of an acting disagreement. :lol:

I'm just yanking your chain man. :) The problem with you isn't the fact that you can't take me seriously, it's the fact that you take me and my posts far far too seriously after reading them. Lighten up man and stop reading too deep into simple disagreements when it comes to my opinion. It wasn't meant to be venom shot at your face like a spitting cobra. It was me simply stating my opinion regarding the subject for others to read and that is all.

Your reply actually shocked me until I read your name. Here I was thinking I was just stating my opinion about a character and it turns out I somehow greatly offended someone without even trying. :)

My major gripe with