This goes toward longer running shows (8 seasons or more I'd say), but in which season do shows seem to go down in quality? Reading message boards around the Net, it seems around the 5th or 6th seasons (with the latter ones usually downright below average or even bad). Why do shows diminish in quality? Budget cuts? Cast departures?

Some examples I see around are: "That 70s Show", "Will & Grace", "Buffy the Vampire Slayer", "The West Wing", "Friends", "Frasier" and "Charmed" (to name a few). What are some others you can think of?

Frasier didn't hit a bumpy patch until its 8th season, but it recovered quite well the last season and a half. Even though I thought the quality was still among the best seen on TV, it really only had a season and a half of bumps; it went out quite strong, which cannot be said for a lot of shows. I would have gladly continued to watch it.

It pretty much happens to every show at some point.

The trick is coming up with the exceptions. MTM and Cheers are 2 that come to mind. Currently, I think The Shield is the best example (for a show that has had more than 3-4 seasons).

I'd probably add Seinfeld to the list of exceptions.

The X-Files got a bit weaker by Season 6, and even moreso after the cast changes in Season 8.

Roseanne started going downhill in S6, but it was still better than almost any other sitcom. Until S8, when it really started to show its age. The final season, S9, was completely unwatchable.

I'm glad Seinfeld ended when it did, because the final season wasn't that good. One more year and I shudder to think what might've happened.

The finale wasn't all that memorable, but how could you not classify these episodes - CLICK ME - as "good"? Heck, The Merv Griffin Show was one of the funniest episodes of TV I've seen.

The Simpsons started slipping about the 9th or 10th season. And by season 12, it became totally unwatchable. I haven't watched more than 10 episodes from the last couple seasons, it's gotten so bad.

I would imagine at some point they just run out of ideas. Most of the premises and possible storylines for the characters have been used up. So they are forced to either recycle old stories or completely revamp and go off on some weird new direction (which usually fails).

Perfect answer, although I thought it started to decline rapidly in season 8.

There's really no pattern to it... other than the obvious one that *every* new season gives a good show a new chance to screw up and veer toward the mediocre.

If I had to generalize, I'd say it's the rare series that has anything fresh to say or do after the third year--so you'd better like it the way it is.

These don't hit your # of seasons criteria but I'll post anyway.

For me:

Alias - S3
Desperate Housewives - 6 or 7 eps into S2

I don't really get why some people don't like the Seinfeld episodes after Larry David left. I actually think the show got funnier during the later seasons. After looking at the link and seeing what the episodes were during the 9th season I think that might be my favorite season. The "Merv Griffin Show" was hilarious, as was "The Voice", "Serenity Now", "The Dealership" and others. Personally, I think the funniest episode in the history of the show was "The Puerto Rican Day" I remember just laughing my ass off the entire episode and unfortunately, at least in my area, that episode isn't shown in syndication. I guess there was too much backlash. I'll just have to wait for the dvd. Going back to what I was saying before about it being funnier later on, even though it's my favorite show ever, sometimes I just can't watch the earlier episodes. Sometimes I even have a hard time watching the seasons that many people consider the best ones like seasons 3 and 4. My favorite period of Seinfeld was when Elaine was working for Peterman and George was working at Play Now and for Krueger. I'm probably in the minority but I like the later seasons (7,8 and 9) way more than any other seasons of Seinfeld.

My favorite Seinfeld episode was from S9, too (The Betrayal). It was an excellent season. The Frogger episode was another classic with my favorite bit being Elaine eating Peterman's 100+ year old cake.

I think Seinfeld held up pretty well through the end insofar as there are still some memorable eps/moments even in the last season. It was starting to show some wear around the edges though, and a lot of the goofiness was more forced then in the earlier seasons.

I think most "hit" shows usually reach their peak right around the second or third season after they become recognized hits, and then gradually taper off until the end of their runs, usually as the show just starts running out of ideas. How bad they get before they go off the air depends on how much of the original cast and/or writing/production talent they manage to keep in place for the remainder of the run. Some shows do a good enough job of it that they go out on a fairly high note. But others really, REALLY limp to the finish line.

I've found that a lot of shows I like from the beginning start to go downhill in their 4th full season.

I agree about Seinfeld, though. It never went downhill for me (though the show has absolutely no re-watchability for me, for some reason). There are other exceptions, but in thinking about it, I've been surprised to see how many shows I started to get bored with in their 4th full season (and surprised at how often the 3rd full season of many shows is so often my favorite).

The O.C. Season 2, 3(The Worst So Far)

"Seinfeld" got sillier (not in a good way) the longer it ran, even though there were a few good episodes in later seasons. I think the most obvious drop came after Larry David left.

"Buffy the Vampire Slayer" never really go unwatchable, though I thought the sixth season had too much silliness (like the Loan Shark, the Double Meat Palace episode) for the darker themes they were trying to explore. That was probably that show's most critical mis-step as far as I'm concerned, though I loved the macro-arc of that season.

"Alias" is always said to have taken a serious hit in S3, but I haven't watched up to there yet.

"Babylon 5" had a kind of shaky fifth season, though it improved in the last handful of episodes. (I also had som structural issues with season four. It peaked with seasons 2 and 3.)

"Doctor Who" took a big hit when they brought in Colin Baker as the Doctor. Anemic writing and an unlikable Doctor (which would've been really interesting if the show had been better written), with a horrible companion introduced in his second season. The Slyvester McCoy "Who's" were pretty awful until the final season, when the show finally started to pick up only to be sacked by the Beeb.

"The X-Files" - the longer it ran, the more convoluted and forgettable it became.

"West Wing" after Sorkin was fired. (Or so I've heard, only watched part of the first season on DVD.)

I guess the only complaint I really had about the later seasons of Seinfeld was that Kramer became too crazy. At the beginning he was just kind of a goofy next door neighbor that had a couple wild ideas but didn't really cause too many distractions. Later on his schemes just got wilder and wilder and it was like he turned into an alien or something. At first he just kinda seemed like a weird guy, but by the end he barely even resembled a rational human being. He still was funny as Hell though.

West Wing was an auteur driven show, once Sorkin left, it should have been labeled "based on characters originated by Aaron Sorkin" The last season and a half were pretty good, but pale in comparison to even "average" episodes of Sorkin's run.

Any J.J. Abrams show - in the 33-44 episode range. He gets distracted and moves onto a newer project, which is really good for 33-44 episodes.

Even one of my favorite shows of all time, Homicide started fading in Season 5 - the 'written by' credits started shifting as a new team of writers who hadn't originated the characters started putting their own spin on things - and I think this is true of most TV shows.

Did you read the thread?
"This goes toward longer running shows (8 seasons or more I'd say), but in which season do shows seem to go down in quality? Reading message boards around the Net, it seems around the 5th or 6th seasons"

Guess not.

Especially since the single worst Seinfeld episode ever made, "The Finale", was the episode that marked Larry David's return to the series.

(How I wish he had just stayed away and we never got that stinko finale!)

I wish they had held off on airing "The Parking Garage" until the end of season 9. That would have been a great way to end the series.

Almost every single show that ever aired is bound to have better and worse seasons, and the longer a show goes the harder it is for the writters to stay fresh and original, and therefore the quality goes down at some points.