Mattrk

I second the opinion that Fox was the main reason for "Firefly" getting cancelled. A new pilot, bad commercials, bad timeslot - all very, very bad signs that the execs didn't get the series. Another example of Fox not "getting it": on the "Futurama" DVD commentary, there's a point where Matt Groening recalled talking to the Fox suits and saying the show was NOT going to be "The Jetsons", to which an exec got excited and said that he loved "The Jetsons", and that was what Fox was expecting. So, Groening told them flat-out what the show was not going to be, they heard what they wanted to hear, and they had the nerve to act shocked at what he gave them.

When it comes to ratings, there are dozens of shows that did poorly their first few years yet stayed on the air, and finally found their audiences, with network support. "Seinfeld", "The X-Files" and "Quantum Leap" are three that come to mind. Heck, I would have loved Fox's level of support to match the amount given to "Small Wonder". Also, think on this: "Lost" was not even supposed to be made, and the ABC exec who greenlit the series was fired. ABC was rather close to canning one of their most popular shows due to a lack of vision, and see how that turned out.

In a perfect world, "Firefly" would be on some other channel, enjoying another year of top ten ratings, and would be decimating any show that Fox threw at it.

JasonF

My wife and I got into it from the first aired episode. And my wife had no prior exposure to Joss Wheedon.

I'd blame lack of mainstream appeal, but the scheduling shenanigans sure didn't help.

Draven

I'd respond to this, but since you wrote it out twice as "fanbois" you lost all credibility.

Amel

I voted that "...it was shit".

Being the huge BtVS and Angel fan I watched but was completely bored and unimpressed.

I'm not too sure about the out of the order thing either. Over the years I've watched other shows that had been on awhile and yet got completely hooked within the first couple of episodes and then caught up while wathcing re-runs. Buffy and Highlander being two good examples. I didn't get a WB channel until Buffy was 1/2 way through it's second season and yet I was hooked after watching 2-3 episodes.

I don't think the timeslot was an issue either. Didn't X-files air on Friday nights? And promotion? I don't remember it be over promoted, but I it wasn't non-existent either.

reverie

I can't give an answer from the time it happened, as I didn't get into the show until maybe a little over a year ago, but from all accounts, it very much seems Fox's fault it failed (see numerous other posts). And before seeing the show, I had never heard of Joss Whedon, so I can't be considered swayed by his name. I don't even consider myself a fan of his (yet). Although I did order Buffy under strong recommendations and faith from Firefly.

riley_dude

A combination of a lot of things. First off the shuffling of episodes. I was one who watched the first episode that wasnt really the "First" episode. I didnt get it because it was if we were reading a third chapter out of a book without reading the beginning.
Another going against it was the western-ish tone. I dont think it went over well with people.
Thirdly, it was just too damn different (like Arrested Development) for people to grasp.
People like sameness.
I love the show but I watched all the episodes (not until about 6 months ago) and it didn't start hitting it's stride until about 4 episodes in.

wendersfan

It failed for every reason you can think of - it was a little too esoteric for mainstream tastes, it was on a network known for not supporting marginal shows, it kept getting moved around, etc. Over the past half-dozen years network television has changed radically in content, but older broadcasting tendencies still prevail - a much higher percentage of shows than I can ever remember being on at one time have created a sense of continuity and an internal universe and 'mytharc', yet network programmers don't yet seem to understand this fully. A show like Firefly was almost designed with the internet and DVDs in mind. There's too much subtlety in plot arc and character development for the normal viewer to assimilate watching once a week with no opportunity for re-viewing. In years past, it hardly mattered if you missed an episode of Mannix or Good Times. Each episode was hermetically sealed, and could be watched in any order. Nowadays this is just not the case. There are network TV shows on right now that I would like to watch, but, since I don't want to pick them up in the middle, will instead rent the DVDs as they are released. The networks are losing out on ratings, but they aren't smart enough to understand the new dynamic.

Groucho

I think they do understand the new dynamic. Look at other Fox shows that are even more dependant on watching the entire season, such as 24 and Prison Break.

wendersfan

Maybe I'm just not attuned to it then. It's frustrating for me that, if I've missed a few episodes of a show, I can't use something like HBO on demand to access them legally, I have to resort to "other" means. I know you can get individual episodes of shows like Lost on iTunes now, but this practice needs to become much more widespread.

Jackskeleton

Wow. I never really heard of anyone getting in on it from the first aired episode. Even I saw it and it didn't click to well till after I saw the pilot. I command you both, but it seems that you are in the minority here.

I think a lot of it was the hype of Buffy in Space as a marketing device that failed.

There is a lot of factors that go into it. Fox didn't help in any case of this but there is other things also like the shift from Sci-fi from the main appeal and shows like this or X-files just don't get the audiences attention automaticlly.

I suppose you can say that with the expanding cable specific channels that Fox needs to do more than offer up some sort of sci-fi alternative for friday nights in order to grab that attention that is now being given to Sci-Fi, G4, Spike and other networks like that.


As for this:
It was from EW and it is misquoted.


http://whedonesque.com/

so don't count it dead yet.. Just try to get over the turnip smell.

Draven

My wife and I were both hooked bigtime by "The Train Job" too - the ending alone made it necessary to at least check out the next episode.

I think the show failed for some very simple reasons: 1. It was aired on Friday nights and was not allowed to build the following X-Files built and 2. Fox is, for the most part, a real horseshit network...putting a lot of great shows on the air only to pull them...which makes me wonder why they even bother putting them on in the first place, but I guess that's why I'm not getting those big executive bucks.

JasonF

This reminds me ... Action is coming out on DVD. Talk about your great Fox shows that got jerked around.

wendersfan

Jackskeleton

Not to put on my shill hat or anything but Fox does pull a lot of stuff but on the flip side, they take the chance on a lot of projects that wouldn't even make it to pilots on other networks.

Draven

...and then cancel them. So I ask, why bother?

treszoks

You can't pick just one thing but rather it was a combination of a lot of things, the major ones being play order, promotion, no big stars, and lack of mainstream appeal.

mike7162

My vote is for the shuffling of episodes (really confusing), lack of promotion, and time slot checkers. This show never had a chance. Why does Fox promote itself as the king of edgy programming, then bail out of nearly every property they broadcast?

Jackskeleton

Because it's better to try out ten "different" shows and have one of them succeed then never to try any and stick to CSI: demoine idaho or Law and Order: FCC

tonyc3742

All of the above.

Granted, a lot of us have DVRs, but a lot of people still don't. So finding a program can still be a challenge. And some DVRs are still time based, not title based, so when the 8PM Fri Fox recording picks up some new show instead of Firefly, the average person might think it's gone, and won't try to hunt it down.

Airing out of order doesn't help, because then you always feel like you missed something, that you wouldn't have had they been in order.

The subtlety of the show. While there's certainly lots of action in most episodes, it's also a character-based show, and it can take a few episodes to get to 'know' the characters [made worse by not airing in order].

Cast - while I like the fact that they were not, in my eyes, 'big name' stars, that way, I watch the character, not the actor--a lot of people are so into celebrity that they'll watch anything 'Featuring....' their favorite big name, even though it's crap.

I can't say anything on the promotion/marketing, I don't watch 'live' tv anymore so I have no idea if it was marketed well or at all at the time.

And, yes, the show itself--an hour long sci fi western, that doesn't even have a whole lot of 'weird looking aliens'. That's not necessarily a description that appeals to much of the mainstream.

Add all those together, resulting in a show that's not an instant hit, and todays' shortsighted network execs who usually give a show three episodes to become the newest watercooler topic before they yank it, and I'm somewhat surprised it lasted as long as it did. But I'm also glad the DVD medium is so friendly to this type of show.

calhoun07

I know there are many responses, and I will read through the thread, but I just wanted to say for now that I strongly feel that it was all in the promotion of the show. But I also feel the time slot killed it.

Before X Files ended it's run, the rumor was that Joss Whedon was creating a sci-fi series to take the place of X Files on Sunday night. But instead of putting it on Sunday night, where there was probably a built in fan base for that type of programming, they put it on Friday night, and I really don't recall seeing many ads for it at all. Then they ran the episodes out of order, for what they did air, and that had to have confused the few viewers they pulled in.

This was a thousand times better than that crap they called Enterprise (or even Voyager before it) and there was an audience out there who would have supported this show, but Fox just could not reach them.

nodeerforamonth

?!?!?!?!? That's the problem right there! Friday night? Who the hell watches TV on a freakin' Friday night!??!?!

No wonder I never heard of this series until Serenity came out!

Jackskeleton

So.. what do you expect networks to do on friday nights?

TGIF was a big success back in its day. So clearly there is a market for this sort of thing. But the typical mentality is that only nerds and geeks stay home on a friday night. So you figure if your demographic is at home on friday they'll watch. right?

Draven

But that's assuming that nerds and geeks are accurately represented by the Nielsens, which they probably aren't. Plus, maybe they WERE watching but they barely got a chance to prove they loved the show (what did they air, 9 episodes?)

mikehunt

yup
same problem TNT had with Crusade

greg9x

I said bad luck due to people like me... I think I happened on Firefly in the middle of an episode once at a point where I thought it was a western which I don't care for or at least isn't my favorite genere.... then they got on a space ship at which point I figured it was one of those lame space show episodes where they pretend to be a lower culture, blah, blah blah, and I turned the channel not even knowing the name of the show... although I had heard ramblings among fanboy's about a show called 'Firefly', didn't know that's what I had seen though...
Then started hearing the hype for Serenity and was a bit confused because of the name difference from Firefly but eventually put the pieces together, and for some reason the movie did sound interesting and after seeing the trailer decided to check it out. Absolutely loved the movie at which point I went out and bought the DVD's and ended up loving the series and regreted it had such a short life.
I was never into Buffy or Angel so wasn't a JW fanboy and this was my first real introduction to his work... definatly say I would give him another chance.

So bad luck because it was a combination of alot of factors that prevented people like me who would have watched it from seeing it and 'getting' it... well recorded because yeah, Fri night is a crappy night for TV...either old people or families with small kids, which this type show wouldn't really appeal to.