It wasn't just Firefly, this is the list of scripted programs(taken from the Family Guy re-debut episode) that debuted and then were cancelled between the time Family Guy was cancelled and reinstated. There's a lot of crud in there, but there are a lot of interesting and original things. Of course, the reality tv boom was a big factor, but still, it was almost like Fox's development and programming people never had any meetings. The development people would be like,"This is really cool!", and then the programmers would get the show and be like "What the &* is this? A show about a tick????" Given that each of those shows probably cost at least $20 million to develop, maybe they should schedule some meetings.

I agree btw, that the 9 lead character thing in Firefly definitely hurt it. I think Whedon said in the "Making of" feature that Fox wanted 5. It is much more coherent when you watch it on DVD, and really helps give a lot of depth to the later episodes, but with that much complexity, you really have to pay attention to the show and view the episodes in order...

Dark Angel
Titus
Undeclared
Action
That 80s Show
Wonderfalls
Fastlane
Andy Richter Controls the Universe
Skin
Girls Club
Cracking Up
The Pitts
Firefly
Get Real
Freaky Links
Wanda At Large
Costello
The Lone Gunman
A Minute with Stan Hooper
Normal Ohio
Pasadena
Harsh Realm
Keen Eddie
The Street
American Embassy
Cedric the Entertainer
The Tick
Luis
Greg the Bunny

As to new viewers of the show who saw what Sci Fi aired this past Friday, I think the pilot is much, much stronger when you see the whole thing in one sitting. Yes, there are some parts where things don't go all blooey, but this show isn't an excuse for explosions - it's a character driven show. I've heard that Sci Fi will be running the whole pilot this coming Friday; if you think the first half was weak, do yourself a favor and watch the whole thing at once.

And I agree that Fox's programming and development people seemed to never speak to each other; the development people would be all excited about a show and send it to the network, and programming wouldn't know what the hell to do with the show - witness the advertising for Firefly, which made the show look like it was about an "outer space hooker".

The other rumor is that Fox got the show just to kill it, so that it wouldn't squash any of their other shows in the ratings. Apparently, their plan worked.

As one of the original fans of Firefly when it first aired, I can only advise newbies to do yourself a favor. Buy or rent this series on DVD. If you check out the review or the threads, it's definitely the preferred way to experience this great show.

Oh, I'd much prefer to buy or rent, but when it is airing for free on TV, I find no need to rent. TV shows are meant to be watched in segments, anyway. Otherwise, make a movie.

But, I sort of agree with Groucho and Morf -- even the pilot leaves you a bit in the cold. So I don't think airing the pilot first would have helped significantly in the overall scheme of things (maybe it couldn't have hurt, but I don't blame Fox for playing the WTF card). I think the biggest factor in being cancelled was that this show is just not for everybody -- this is very very much a western.

I guess I'm surprised. I had expected a continuing-adventures-of-Han-Solo type of space-western, but this is like meet-our-band-of-Little-House-on-the-Prairie-frontier-folk type of space-western, in terms of pacing.

I recognize the dialog and characterizations as being good, in fact I could imagine reading the script and being wowed by it, but the overall execution of the show is just... I don't know, I'll put my faith in this board and stick with it for a while.

Quite frankly, I tried watching the "real" pilot last week and I was *still* put off by the western motiff. Reminds me a bit like Jeremiah in space.

I agree that the Western theme doesn't work that well, but it is still a well crafted and entertaining series. The writing, especially in some of the later episodes, is very good, and the series really comes together at the end. The other thing I like is that the series reminds me somewhat of my favorite ST, DS9. They are both set on the 'frontier' , they both have very strong ensemble casts, and are both visually and thematically dark. So if you liked DS9, chances are you will really like Firefly, if you're a TNG type, maybe not so much.

I saw it on DVD, never on the air, and I bought it blind because it was a Mutant Enemy creation and it got some good buzz. I thought the first few episodes were pretty good, but I wasn't really wowed by it until along about the fourth or fifth episode, when it really started picking up steam. After that, it really became an amazing show.

I don't remember not totally understanding the pilot. It's not a confusing show. Remember most shows seem to stink at the start before hitting their stride. This one to me really started to click and get really good the last several episodes. Before then I was glad I'd bought it and watched it but only near the end did I get really disappointed that there wasn't more to see.

Interesting about the DS9 reference. I'm a huge TNG fan, but when DS9 started I didn't get into it..going to start watching it from the beginning soon so looking forward to it.

I remember reading FOX wanted a new pilot so they did a new one but I remember watching the new pilot and not being into it. I didn't tune in again.
Tonight I am going to watch the real pilot.

Serenity Trailer #3

http://www.apple.com/trailers/univer...ity/trailer_2/

Large:

http://movies.apple.com/movies/unive...-tlr2_m480.mov

Medium:

http://movies.apple.com/movies/unive...-tlr2_m320.mov

Small:

http://movies.apple.com/movies/unive...-tlr2_m240.mov

Serenity Trailer #2 (a.k.a. the international trailer):

http://www.uip.nl/Pictures/seren/trailer2.mov

Serenity Trailer #1:

http://www.apple.com/trailers/universal/serenity/

Fullscreen:

http://movies.apple.com/movies/unive...enity_ifs2.mov

Large:

http://movies.apple.com/movies/unive...enity_m480.mov

Medium:

http://movies.apple.com/movies/unive...enity_m320.mov

Small:

http://movies.apple.com/movies/unive...enity_m240.mov

That trailer just kicked my own mother's ass.

MUCH better than the international trailer and LIGHT YEARS better than the original trailer.

That was awesome. I so can't wait for this to be released but until it is I guess I'll just have to watch the DVDs. I tired watching it on sci-fi but the commercials drive me nuts.

Bah, I'm just not meant to watch the show, it seems. Last week, Tivo decided to randomly not record it for no apparent reason, and this week my DirecTV can't seem to get a bunch of channels, SciFi included.

I watched the pilot last night. I have to agree that it just starts out without a lot of time establishing who everyone is. Someone mentioned the pilot left them cold, is this the reason?
I'm guessing the characters become more likable and you find out more about them as they evolve?
Not a bad show, I'll be watching.

Ok so I started getting these from Netflix to finally sit, watch and finish...I remember trying to get into it when they first aired, but the Friday thing killed it for me and just never picked them back up. My only question is since there is a question about the order, what is the order you are supposed to watch them in? Is there some where online I can find that or can someone list it?

The order on the DVDs is the correct one. The back of the DVD box lists the air date of the episodes, and you can see the screwy order they were aired. Also, go to the Sci-Fi Channel's website and look up Firefly; they list the episodes in the correct order.

It was obviously redundant in a lot of ways, but I thought the third episode (aka the "New Pilot") did a better job in introducing the characters and situation than the "Real Pilot" but in less time.

I'm pretty disappointed in the "Alliance" as villains. They are huge rip-offs of the Empire in the "Star Wars" movies, and two one-dimensionally "EEEEEVIL."

So I finally got through the first 3 episodes, and I have to say I do enjoy it. I agree that the Alliance is a little weak on the villian front, but the Reavers make up for it, even if they do seem to be a little "Borg-like". I look forward to getting the rest of the dvds now from Netflix. My only question is, and please hightlight spoilers since this is new to me, am I going to end up being pissed that I got into watching this just to finish the series with a whole lot more questions that wont be answered since there are no more shows? Or is that what the movie is supposed to be?

Think of Serenity as the "series finale" of Firefly.

I don't see the Alliance as an Empire rip off. In the galaxy far, far away, no one outside of the Imperial construct seemed to like or enjoy being under the rule of the Empire. The Empire was clearly the black hat and everyone was just looking for an excuse to end the Emperor's reign of terror. The Alliance is full of people who think they are good people and they enjoy living under the protection and wealth of the Alliance. The Alliance isn't evil per se, just idealogically different from what the Independents wanted. I liken it to England and the Colonies. Many people favored the British Empire over the Colonies and led prosperous and decent lives. The same is true for the Colonies. Both sides just had differing opinions of what right and wrong was and who was entitled to what. Sure, the Alliance contains some malevolent forces, but every governing body does, since the history of time. There's good and bad in everything. Firefly wasn't about bringing down the "evil Alliance," it was about personal freedom and survival. The Alliance just happened to be the source of Mal's greatest conflict and a faction within the Alliance (Blue Sun) was obviously more sinister than the government as a whole. I think Blue Sun was the true villain of the series, but we never had the chance to really see that develop. The Alliance was mostly just an idealogical enemy for Mal to keep railing against over the course of the series (you know, the law to his outlaw).

That's the way I see it, anyway.

I agree with RogueScribner. The Alliance really was not the be-all Big Bad of the series. But it appeared that a faction or two of the Alliance was being developed as the Baddie.

Fvs.D: Yes, the series stops with at least a couple of big questions unanswered. Questions were being raised obviously to set up future storylines that never happened. I doubt that all that will be wrapped up in the movie. But I also doubt that the movie will be the "series finale." A couple of the cast members have said they've signed three-picture contracts.

Simular to Peacekeeper Wars being, in essence the finale for Farscape.

Exactly. After the 15 second opening voice-over by the Shepherd, I paused the show and said to my wife "Now it makes perfect sense! Why didn't they just put that the beginning of episode one?"

Sure, I could have inferred most of that on my own, but when I start a new show, I like a certain amount of hand holding at the beginning until I get my bearings. Until that point, I wasn't clear as to whether the war scene in the first episode were the main characters fighting with the Alliance or against the Alliance.

Now as soon as they explain that goofy language they bust into every once and a while, I'll be content.

The film is only getting a sequel (or two) if Serenity is able to pull in enough of a profit to warrant another go around for Universal. The studio is in dire need for a franchise at the moment and they believe Serenity may give them that (if it doesn't fail).

Serenity is a perfect way to end the universe in the live action field (I'm sure there will be comic books and novels). It doesn't bring up any new questions, however it does give some answers to some questions created on the show that were never resolved after "Objects in Space." Whedon ends the film so perfectly that even if there are no additional sequels, it's a good way to go out on.