JasonF

I agree with you on Doyle, too. I thought the character just wandered through the dozen-or-so episodes he was in and never really contributed anything.

Breakfast with Girls

Wesley is the best part of Angel.

GreenMonkey

Personally I liked Doyle, and so far I miss his presence. Wesley is amusing and all but too Xander-like at this point in his comic relief. I swear some of his lines could be transplanted right over to Xander. I'm sure this will change but that's how I feel at this point.

saberdance42

I thought Doyle was okay, but he never really had the time to grow into anything special, regardless of the reasons why. Curiously, I find the end of "Hero" to be extremely affecting despite the fact that I didn't particularly love his character.

As far as "I Will Remember You" is concerned, I detest this one, not because it's about Buffy/Angel, but because it's cloying, manipulative, contrived, and seems to exist solely to add to Angel's martyr complex. Thanks, but, no thanks.

And I will agree that the addition of Wesley is when the show begins to get good. But again, remember, season 1? Not that big a fan.

Emma311

[QUOTE=saberdance42]
As far as "I Will Remember You" is concerned, I detest this one, not because it's about Buffy/Angel, but because it's cloying, manipulative, contrived, and seems to exist solely to add to Angel's martyr complex. Thanks, but, no thanks.
QUOTE]

I did like "I Will Remember You". I did like their romance or whatever, but I'm not faithful to it. I totally agree with the martyr thing though, as did my sister after watching the set I got her as a gift.

I liked Doyle & was completely surprised by his death on the show. I think it's horrible that Glenn Quinn Od'd. It still makes me sad anytime I catch an old ep of Roseanne.

I was pleasantly surprised with the way they brought Wesley into the show. I didn't really like him on Buffy, but he really got to shine on Angel.

BudSeriously

I always thought "The Powers that Be" were incredibly goofy and the most embarassing part of the series. Sessa's right, they would be more at home in Xena.

Puzznic

Those aren't the powers that be though. They are the Oracles, just messengers.

Bcolon

Additional note on Glenn Quinn, he was supposedly bring David Boreanez down with him and that more then anything else hastened his departure.

Amel

What's a rogue demon? I always loved that line.

Right from when it happened it was put out that Glenn Quinn was fired for his personal problems. Somewhere there's an interview with Charisma where she talks about it. And him and Boreanaz were very tight at the time, hanging out and taking vacations together. RIP

BizRodian

The way I heard it, it's something Whedon always wanted to do... and it was made a lot easier when Quinn started showing up drugged up on set all the time.

RogueScribner

I became an avid Buffy in S2 of that series and I've always been kind of partial to the Buffy/Angel relationship. Moreso than her other relationships, anyway. So for me, this episode was a treat. It served two purposes as I see it: #1 it was the definitive moment where Angel let Buffy go (which allows her to move on, if not him as well), and #2 it showed how noble Angel can be. He sacrifices and sacrifices and nary gets any reward for it. He sticks to the mission, not because he thinks he'll be rewarded or to lessen his guilt, but because the job has to be done and why not him? These issues get explored deeper in the future, but this episode is pretty much where it starts.

Man, everytime I see Buffy breakdown and cry, "A minute? No. No, it's not enough time!" I get choked up. I think SMG really nailed that scene.

I can see how someone wouldn't get much out of this episode if they weren't into Buffy/Angel. However, it was necessary to affirm that they weren't going to get back together and allow both characters to go off in different directions on their respective series. Angel had to let Buffy go and Buffy had to think he had nothing left to offer her. Mission accomplished.

The official explanation is that Joss Whedon always intended to off Doyle in this fashion. I don't really buy it. Rumors were rampant regarding Quinn's drug use and set problems. His later death only seemed to confirm people's suspicions. So considering he had to be let go earlier than intended, I think they did a good job. The ep itself is okay, but I really dig the ending. Doyle grows a pair and faces his demons (literally!). Everyone should go out a hero.

I lived in denial for months after this episode, thinking Doyle was going to come back. Everytime I heard, "Is that it? Am I done?" I'd get really anxious. Poor Doyle.

A transition ep. Wesley had to be (re)introduced and Cordy's new role had to be established. Back in '99/'00, I was pro-Doyle and anti-Wesley. Wesley was annoying on Buffy and I couldn't see what he could possibly add to Angel. Thankfully, my opinion of him change greatly.

I like this ep. Really, anything that touches on Angel's past I pretty much just eat up. And Kate discovered Angel's true nature, which I thought was neat.

You seem to be hot and cold on this series so far, Sessa. Remember how the second season of Buffy had a lot more to offer than the first season? Just keep that in mind when watching this show. It all gets better, trust me.

L8r

saberdance42

Really? Haven't heard that one before. Thaaaaaat's interesting. I knew the two of them were tight, but this is the first rumor I heard about any problems that Boreanaz was having. Huh.

chess

Who put's a B5 spoiler in an Angel thread?!?!?!?!

Thankfully, it's a vague one, but knowing what I know about Wes, it tells me a lot. sigh.

xVladx

Well, if it makes you feel any better, the comparisons are vague, at the very best. As far as the two characters go (minor Angel spoilers follow, no B5 ones):

chess

Well, that's a bit of a relief. It was just a shocker to open up that spoiler and find that in there. I was naturally drawing comparisons between the characters, but thankfully it's vague.

riley_dude

I dont remember ever reading this. Interesting.



Regarding Wesley, I remember reading his character was going to be replacing Doyle and I wasn't happy about it but boy did they flesh him out and make him one of the most interesting characters in the Buffy/Angel Universe. When watching Buffy now, it's amazing to see how much they change and what their destiny turns out to be.

tasha99

Oops--sorry about that. I deleted my post and if you delete or edit yours the spoiler won't be there. I did just mean "in general" though, so don't draw too much off what I said.

a35mmlife

I am currently house sitting for one of the stars of this show


well... ex stars...

MEJHarrison

If it's for Charisma, I'll pay top dollar for...

Wait a minute. My wife sometimes reads these board. Better contact me privately.

riley_dude

Well, since you brought it up, can you tell us who and can we get an autographed pic?

slop101

Alright, spill the beans - he, or she?

And as long as we're playing this game, I know one of the stuntmen who worked on Angel during seasons 2-4.

MEJHarrison

I had an English class in college with Kim Fields (Tootie from The Facts of Life). She was very nice, but too smart. She knew the answers to every question and made those of us who were doing just enough to pass, look bad. I also took lots of computer classes with her step brother.

slop101

Kim Fields was on Angel?

a35mmlife

I dont mind telling you all... its Vincent Kartheiser... we met when I was the assistant to the director of on a film called Another Day In Paradise a few years back and weve been best of buds since... He's starring in a play in NY so I get to scoop his cat's shit.

Yes, even star's cats shit...

Gil Jawetz

DO NOT DISCUSS HIS ROLE ON ANGEL IN THIS THREAD!!!!!!!

(just a little warning)