Jeffrey Bell will always be a saint in my eyes for writing and directing the series finale. I remember being disappointed when I heard that Whedon wasn't going to direct it, but Bell knocked it out of the park.

Sessa, you really nailed every reason why Angel is ultimately the superior show. I can tell right now that you don't have to worry about the storyline or characterizations lagging in the later seasons. In the Buffy thread, every time you would have a complaint or a concern, I had to cringe because things always went in the direction that you hoped they wouldn't. You won't have the same problem with Angel.

Wow. Even less of an excuse.

I generally preferred the Bell-written/directed episodes of AtS far more than I did Whedon's, anyway, so I thought having him do the finale was nicely appropriate.

How is it that after all these years, I'm finally talking to people who share the same view of ANGEL as I do? Better late than never...

Another Pylea fan! Fantabulous. If I weren't so hooked on "SPACED" right now I would rewatch them right now.

You are the best poster here Spaced is my all-time favorite TV show & I post about it all the time in DVD Talk & pretty much nobody has ever even heard about it let alone scene it. It's only 2 seasons though (with I think 10 eps a season?), so it shouldn't take that long to get trough. Make sure you listen to the commentaries, they are as good as the eps if you have the Definitive Edition.

Did you get to he ep with the greatest gun shoot out ever? You'll know what I mean once you get to it.

I saw Simon Pegg on stage once, years and years before Spaced. He was a funny bloke. It's always nice when someone with real talent makes it big, rare as it is.

Anyone who's seen and enjoyed "Shaun of the Dead", go and get "Spaced." As funny as it is, "Spaced" is ten times better.

Also, sad to say, when "Spaced" first aired over here, it was pretty much like a mockumentary of my life at the time. Go out. Get pissed. Get stoned. Play video games. Read comics. Get fired a lot. It was almost embarrassing to watch at times.

GO BUY IT!

Unlike with BtVS, AtS never had a real decline in quality. You can debate certain character arcs and events all you want, but overall the quality was always there. I never saw anything on Angel that made me want to stop watching the show, unlike on Buffy (druggie Willow, Slayers in Training, Spike in S6, well, pretty much just S6 in general). The characters on Angel were always evolving, for better or worse, and things were always building towards something, save for S2 when they went to Pylea, but considering where the series went because of that little sojourn, I can deal.

Sessa, you had much love for S5 of Buffy, so I think you'll really dig S3 of Angel. S4 seems to be a love it or hate it season for most people. It certainly gets crazy, but it's that craziness that made me such a fan in the first place. Enjoy!

L8r

I'm holding out hope that Sessa will groove on the chaos that is S4. That he liked Pylea is definitely a start. Not that they're all that similar, but they both require you to "go with it."

Is this true? Nobody has mentioned this to me.

I started Season 3 last night.

"Heartthrob" - Following the usual tradition of Angel/Buffy season openers, this was a stinker all around. Pretty much the only thing I kind of liked was that Fred is being worked in slowly, I see they already put her in the opening credits, but she isn't being shoved in your face. I was pretty surprised that Lorne wasn't added as a regular. Now for the bad. I'm sick of the flashbacks already. I can't handle Angel's awful Irish accent anymore, IMO the flashbacks have been done to death. The main plot of this one I found to be extremely boring. It kind of seems like w/ the constant mention of Cord's visions getting worse, that maybe the reason they brought Fred in is to phase Cord out. It sure seems like it's going that way. And the Darla pregnant ending had me groan a bit. I love Darla & all, but that is just a little too soap opera-y for me.

While it's not a big deal, there is bit of character development.

Spoilers for "That Old Gang of Mine" & "That Vision Thing" (in the right order)

Also, you can see during the ending credits for the episodes that "That Old Gang of Mine" was produced first and the Season 3 Overview on the DVD has it and "That Vision Thing" in the correct as #2 and #3 respectively.

Aw man, it figures... no updates for weeks and then a massive influx when I'm moving and had no internet! hahaha, man, I missed Lindsy's departure and Pylea, which I'm definitely psyched you dug on. You're getting into the meat of it now man, I'm envious of you.

Doc

Heartthrob was the first episode in widescreen. I think it gave the show more of an adult look over Buffy.

I love that Darla got a bun in the oven. I remember when this first aired it seemed like every show had a baby coming in it.

The flashbacks for me are great. I like seeing how the characters have changed over hundreds of years. I didn't really care for the bad vampires in modern time though.

I pretty much hated Fred from the start not knowing what they were going to do with her. She is just a insane girl hanging around waiting to found out where she fits in.

I still don't understand those who claim that the show was filmed in widescreen from the beginning, when Season 2 is proof otherwise. I mean, even the Season 3 credits were wider when the actors' names appear.

The show also had a bit of a new look- slower camera moves, courtesy of a new D.P.

One thing that has always confused me, though:

How the hell could the editors not notice the "staked" vampires still rolling on the ground in wide shots of "Heartthrob"? It was a huge goof. (The scene where the gang tracks down the vamps who took hostages from the college dorm, and they're staked in a street fight)

I agree that they were praising him a little too strongly, but it played out pretty funny against how horrible Angel's singing is considered. Christian Kane (Lindsey)'s band is called Kane. I've really gotten into him lately & after watching him perform in this ep a few times & listening to clips on their site kanemusic.com I ordered the cd last weekend as a birthday present for myself.

I'm glad you liked Pylea. I was surprised back when people on here were debating about whether you would like it or not. I can see how it would anger some people that after the preceding eps that they just whisked he characters away like that. My sister was really fascinated by them the first time she saw it.

This is kinda similar to my current situation. I just moved down to my older sister's for the summer. The 2 dvd players in her house aren't hooked up correctly & no one seems to care & I'm horrible with that stuff. I was kind of upset that I wouldn't be able to rewatch along with Sessa. Then I found out that her computer has a dvd drive. I'm happier now.

I thought that the Darla pregnancy thing was pretty daring.

When I first watched Fred enter the series I didn't really care for her, but that changed.

GRR! Couldn't edit this into my original post for some reason:

EDIT - Uh, that doesn't seem like much of a recommendation . . .

"HURH! Go buyd id begause I did da shame shtuff! HAR-HAR-HAR!"

What I was trying to get across (and was way too tired) is that apart from being extremely funny, it really taps into a vital aspect of life; that transition period after you come out of your teens and before you get your life together for real. That transitory stage where nothing is solid and your potential teters on the brink of success or failure. It helps that the cast act in naturalistic way to ground it even in its more surreal moments.

Sessa, Sessa, Sessa...you're dealing with another pro homie . I'm on maybe my 12th viewing of series 2 (after only having the set for about 3 months). I've seen series one about 15 times all the way through. I hardly ever watch specific eps, just throw the discs in and hit play. Did the comms (which are my favorite comms ever), but I just found out about the "Homage-O-Meter" so that's what I'm playing with now.

When I say I'm hooked, I mean I just can't bring myself to take the discs out of my dvd player. As soon as I do I think maybe I'll watch the bloopers just one more time (I'm ashamed at just how many times I've seen these) or maybe I'll watch the documentary one more time, or maybe the battle bots ep or maybe....you get my drift.

This show has actually surpassed Angel to become my all time favorite show as well. I usually wait to see if a show can stand the test of time, but I can't ever see gettting bored with this. It is most certainly my all time favorite dvd release (packed with so much good stuff).

And to make this relevant to the thread at hand - See and now you watching the Whedon-verse stuff can appreciate the SPACED homages to them even more! WHOOO! Ok, not really as they were pretty obvious the first go round but still.

BTW- Which gun shoot out are you talking about? I bet it was the one with the kids, but I always liked the one in the apartment better(even though they both rule so damn hard).

Yeah, Christian Kane is a real singer, with a band (named Kane) and everything. I don't think he's actually released an album, but I think that scene was just meant to be played for laughs (everyone drooling over him, except petty Angel). It always cracks me up.

I agree with you on this. I know a lot of people like the flashbacks, but I despise them. They've been done way too much.

He does have his own CD and I have heard it. A little too country for me but he really does have a decent voice. The song he sings in the kareokee episode is on the recent Angel Soundtrack.
A friend of mine, who lives down in S. Cal. says she sees him play in small clubs all the time and that he is just as good looking in person but quite a bit shorter than you would imagine him to be.

It's been nice catching back up with this thread (I've been away in Paris for the last two weeks) - thanks for keeping it going, Sessa.

Now, I just want to bring up something that hasn't been brought up yet: the hotness of Stephanie Romanov (Lilah) - Sessa keeps mentioning when he thinks a character is hot or not, and I thought I'd chime in with who I think is the most gorgeous babe in the whole Buffy-verse - much hotter than Buffy and far more provacative and alluring than Cordelia. She's one of the only female characters that's actually a woman, and not a little girl. She's also a really good actress too boot - she plays her part with just the appropriate amount of tounge-in-cheek and she's still totally believable. I also dig that she plays the character as if she stepped out of a '40s noir - she's sorta got an early Lauren Bacall thing going on.

Anyways, since Sessa hadn't posted his opinion of her, I thought I would.

How can her hotness be denied:

Yeah? She doesn't do much for me. She is pretty, but just kind of plain Jane IMO, I'd say she is prettier than Cord though, but I think Cord is sexier & she is not even in the same league of hotness as Dushku. I think Fred is really cute too, I'd even put her over Lilah.

I think Darla is really hot, she has such a sexy voice. She gets my vote as the hottest Angel chick so far. But Dushku is still #1 in the Buffy-verse for me.

Awesome to have another Spaced fan. I know what you mean, I hesitate to say it's my all-time favorite show also, b/c it is so short, but it is & its largely due to what someone else said, aside from it being so damn funny & all the brilliant movie references, I can just relate to it. And it's also my favorite DVD that I own. I just never get sick of watching it, it's one of those things that every single time I watch it I have a new favorite part or a new favorite character or a new favorite line. Right now I just love Tim's nemesis "Duane". I have no idea why, the golf montage, when he meets up with him in the bar in series two "The last time we met Tim, you shot me in the bullocks". After my last viewing I just love Duane all of a sudden.


Either one, but yeah I like the apartment one better two, Daisy being in the other one always ruined it a bit for me. Tim's reaction to when Mike starts the shoot-out & all the little details they do, when the grenade is thrown, the knife in the eye. I've always said, it is literally the single funniest thing I've ever seen filmed to this day. I just can't recommend the show enough.

In hotness, I'd put Darla at #2, right behind Lilah - Dushku's okay, but she's a bit too... tom-boy for my tastes (and maybe a bit too droopy in the face) - I think Romanov is practically the perfect looking woman.

Sessa, now I know why you tried out these shows - it must have been after seeing Pegg pray at his Buffy altar on Spaced. And you probably gave up on Babylon 5 because his character on the show called it shit...

It's part of the reason I never bothered to watch it for so long.

My favorite homage is the Return of The Jedi one in the first episode of season two. I'm not the biggest Star Wars fan in the world (though I do think they're a lot of fun) and I didn't even think Phantom Menace was *that* bad, but for some reason that scene just had me literally crying with laughter. For me its even funnier than the scene in the comic book shop with the little kid.

I think it's just the fact that I'm such a cynical, miserable bastard that likes to see people suffer in amusing ways. I think it's a British thing. It's part of why I like Spike so much. It's not our best character trait, as a nation. And the fact that so many die-hard Star Wars fans were so completely crushed after that movie, as if ol' George had Jar Jar Binks hold them down while he personally drove six inch nails through their bollocks while dressed up in a gimp suit and singing Kum Bai Ah in a falsetto really warmed my jaded little heart.

And that's what Pegg nailed so beautifully in that scene. That melodromatic silence, in which the child in Tim grieved through an adult's eyes as his action figures and posters are slowly consumed by the fire is played so perfectly straight and honest, despite the fundamental ludicrousness of the scene. Its really one of the highlights of both series for me and perfectly encapsulates the essence of the whole show. Both beautiful and ridiculous.

Oh, and my favourite Buffyverse girl: Amber Benson. The only one in both shows who ever seemed to have a good friggin' meal now and again.