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"Wait...Wait..."

Agreed, I can't seem to word what I want to say without giving anything away. I will just say, wait and see! As for the finale of the 1st season; I don't remember anything that remotly made me want to cry, the bigenning of season 2 pissed me off. (I can't explain why-spoilers)

All of this makes me want to start watching all over again, I'm just afraid I will not be able to finish like the last time I started.

Possibly. My reading comprehension skills are suspect at best. ;)

They were talking about the series finale.


Yep. :D The fact that you really seem to like seaon 1 is a good sign that you're going to absolutely LOVE seasons 2-4, and probably 5 as well.

Where are you Cusm. Did you start season 2. After reading all these posts I had to have a B5 fix, so I watched the 1st disk of season 2. All I have to say about it is;

Those who pick Purple are Purple............Those who pick Green are Green.

Simple...dumb Earthers.

watched the first two eps of S2 last night...trying to slow down a bit.

Points of Departure

OK, that was NOT a smooth way to let Sinclair go. Was this change a deliberate part of the story or did the actor leave between seasons? Let me get this straight, rather than explain what happened to Sheridan at the Line in the season finale, they explain it in an "oh by the way" fashion in this one. Minbari souls reborn as humans...OK, that makes a lot of sense...by which I mean it makes none at all. At any rate, I'm sort of on board...humans and minbari have to "join together" to fight for the forces of light, which up till now have been represented by the Vorlons.

Sheridan seems alright, and is at the very least a better actor than the guy who played Sinclair. I also like the animosity between him and the Minbari. Did I hear correctly that he and Ivanova served at Io (where the prez was just killed)? Hmmmm.

Regardless, this episode was very well put together and had a pretty tight narrative. :up:

Revelations

Solid episode with tons of exposition....and the CGI is getting really good for early/mid 90s TV.

So, Londo is selling everybody out (for now). The Narn know who these shadows are (more or less) implying that they are (or were) more sophisticated before the Centauri invaded them. The shadows live on "the rim" and Sheridan's wife was killed exploring a civilization on "the rim", which can't be a coincidence. I wonder if they/she woke the shadows up. Finally, Delenn is now partly human (I guess) representing a joining of humans and minbari.

This is getting pretty tough to keep up with despite the "hints" in the first season, but it's also getting better...a lot better.

General thought

I've noticed that the episodes depend less and less on token plot devices and are more openly moving the arc forward. I hope that continues.

Chess - The studio insisted that the actor playing Sinclair be replaced by a "name" star. That was the initial reason Sheridan was brought in. JMS (J. Michael Strazynski), the show's creator, said that he was able to work around this without compromising on his planned story. It will all work out, trust me.

Oh, and don't believe everything every character says. Just like in real life, people lie, prevaricate and otherwise mislead.

Chess (not Cusm-stand corrected) JMS had to make several changes just to keep the show on the air and Sinclair was one of them. I would comment more but again I am afraid of giving something away.

Thanks. It's just too bad they couldn't have kept Sinclair around for an episode or two and sent him off in a less abrupt way. I'll take your word that it will work out.

Believe me, at this point, I don't trust anybody...even the B5 staff. I might trust the Minbari least of all...well, them and Ivanova. ;)

JMS had a "trap-door" plan for each character as a back-up, just in case an actor couldn't continue with the show for whatever reason.

I've watched the entire series and enjoyed it. I've been reading Chess's exploits with interest and various other's comments with interest as well. Bandoman, if you're saying that Sinclair was basically forced out by the studios, how did that play into the storyline of Minbari and Human relationship? If Sinclair were not forced out, how would that arc have been played out? It seems that the arc wouldn't have.

If your explaination may spoil the series, put it in spoiler tags. I'm interested in anyone's explaination to this question that may have had additional information on JMS' original plans.

runner001 - even your question may contain spoilers, so you may want to tag it. Anyway, from what I recall

Interesting how this board grooms B5 experts. das passes on to Bando, Bando passes on to chess, chess passes on to.....

It's fun to watch. :D

heh-heh-heh

;)

if you havn't watched the entire series do not open!!! you have been warned.

spoilers.....so hard to resist.

Watched another pair last night. Both solid episodes.

The Geometry of Shadows

No complaints on this one. The Ivanova arc was silly, but entertaining. I'm glad they promoted her, as one of my beefs last season was watching a 250,000 person space station be run by an 0-5. A Captain and a Commander make a LOT more sense. I also like that they gave her a role in diplomacy, since she seemed pretty well anchored to the command deck before.

The Garabaldi arc was very interesting, but mostly for a single scene. I'm not sure if they were trying to imply that he was thinking about suicide, but that was certainly my read. Also significant that the commander holstered the gun for him.

I was pretty "meh" about the Technomage idea, but I liked the last chat between him and Londo. He could see that Londo was going down a dark road to power and I really liked the moment of remorse on Londo's face. Good stuff.

I don't get the name of the episode though...very little shadow activity in this one.

A Distant Star

I always like when they do "space stuff" so this one was right up my alley. The Cortez was cool. I wonder if it was supposed to be reminescent of 2001. The hyperspace stuff was cool, but confusing. This ship is supposed to travel to places without jumpgates on "the rim"...so why couldn't it just open one once the power was up? I probably missed something. Also, that fire on the deck of the Cortez was hilarious. Is the thing supposed to be made of balsa wood or something? Sir, main power is out...oh, and there's a 7 foot flame right behind you!

Shadows are cool...so far.

The doctor storyline was silly, and not worth the punchline.

I like that they are making Sheridan a slightly flawed character, but he has a "groaner" line or two in every episode so far...plus his delivery is a bit off. But he's a good actor, so I assume he'll settle into the role. I also like that they aren't sending the brass out to fight so much. I had a bit of a star trek moment at the end of last season when Sinclair AND Ivanova went down to that planet. Now we get to see the impact on the skipper of sending people into harms way. Good stuff.

Keep the Technomage dialog with Londo at the back of your mind. It will eventually come up again. That is one of the things great about this show. Small seemingly inconcequintial things pop up later down the road.

JMS chose the names for each episode very deliberately, and they always have something to do with the plot - and are often misleading.

You have 4 more stand-alone episodes to go before you start to get into what JMS calls the "wham" episodes, where the plot just starts to take off. But as I said before, every episode contains important plot and character development.

Then I won't post my source since your lack of willpower combined with my source would ruin the whole show for you. :)

From JMS, the creator of the show:

"To get in and out of hyperspace you have to know where you are and where you're going, otherwise you'll come out even *more* lost, hundreds of light years from home; you jump in, and you're even further gone now."

Again:

"To be filed under the heading of, "What I does, I takes the rap for; what I does not, I doesn't take the rap for," when we discussed the hyperspace accident in our production meetings, Jim -- our director -- asked if he could so some fratzing and sparking, some fire...I said I did not *want* huge gouts of flame, just a few small sparks, fine, a bit of smoke from components burned out, fine...and that day I was over in the other facility overseeing a mixdown of the audio...and guess what he did in my absence? Yup." rotfl

You could have had Londo at the fire roasting a hotdog. That would have been funny.

Would it be a spoiler to tell about the Tom Hanks/Ron Howard episode.

Two more last night:

The Long Dark

Just an OK episode. The plotline was pretty standard "alien ripoff" fare. The only worthwhile piece of info I caught was that the humans got jumpgate technology from the Centauris and that "dark forces" are gathering.

Spider in the Web

An entry in the Mars colony/corrupt Earth gov/Psi-corps treachery arc, and a pretty decent one. I liked the San Diego ruins...I assume referring back to the earlier mentioned terrorist attack there. Sheridan is now the Mulder of the show and Bureau 13 is the new rogue government agency, and there's a Bureau officer on board B5, but we don't know who.

Another confusing title...I may be a bit too literal, but I'm thinking that it either refers to the Psi-corps officer in San Diego or it may refer to the fact that B5's computer is compromised (was "web" a common term in 1995?).

Anyway, a good one. Nice to see Garabaldi getting some action too.

chess, are you reading the Lurker's Guide for each of these episodes? They provide a lot of connection information without spoiling future episodes. It's well worth the companion read.

I agree wholeheartedly with Chew. I read the Lurker's Guide when I was watching this series for the first time, and it helped me understand the connections/what was going on without spoilers.

Link

Good site. Are you sure there are no spoilers in there?

The site wasn't exactly around when I first watched the series and it's been a while since I did a complete reading, so I can't say for sure. But, I can't recall Bando ever complaining about spoilers from it during his first run-through.

Not as long as you don't read ahead. Stick with reading the episode guide for the episodes you've watched. Do NOT go to the "Reference" or The Babylon 5 Universe" sections, because they get right into discussions of the entire plot.

I particulatly enjoyed JMS' comments for each episode. He will probably addresses most of your criticisms/concerns/questions without spoiling anything.

That where I pulled my quotes from. As you can see, two of your complaints had perfectly reasonable explanations available in the guide. But if you don't have the willpower to not peek, I wouldn't suggest visiting. And you've already indicated that you're having a hard time avoiding the spoilered text in this thread.

I think I'll manage.

...and I don't think "complaints" is the right word. I have no complaints so far...just a quibble here and there when things defy logic. I only "complain" about shitty TV (reality shows and cop drama spinoffs).

Further, when I said that the 7 foot flame was hilarious, that was not a complaint...I meant it. I can't explain it, but I get a kick out of that sort of thing. Maybe it's just me, but amongst all the seriousness, there's just a little bit of "camp" in this show (like X-Files or Buffy).

Oh yeah, there's camp. But things that seem to defy logic really don't when you understand what JMS was doing. He really really really really....really thought this show out ahead of time.

Well, if you don't have the link yet, it's The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5. Click on the graphic in the middle entitled "The Episodes". There's a ton of interesting data there.

If you can help it, don't read the episode titles ahead of what you've read so far. Some of the titles are a little spoilery...

Criticism for discussion purposes only...still loving the show.

Watched a couple of Talia Winters/Psi-corps episodes today (Soul Mates and A Race Through Dark Places). I have to admit that the whole Psi-corps side of the story isn't that compelling for me. The stuff I really like is the alien political intrigue which was a bit sparse in these two episodes.

It feels sort of like standard government conspiracy stuff...though I'm sure it all ties together nicely with the alien stuff. Also, Chekov is doing a good job, but his casting is a bit too gimmicky for my taste.

However, the Psi-corps stuff is a nice departure from, say, Star Trek, where the Federation is about 97% noble and right, but it all just feels too familiar and I always want to know what Londo and G'Kar are up to. The way they play off of each other is my favorite part of the show, and they are easily my two favorite characters...so I naturally miss them when they are downplayed. I really liked the bit about Londo's wives in Soul Mates.

But given the number of minor points and characters that have returned to be fleshed out, I'm sure the Psi-corps stuff will be vital to the overall arc.

Koenig was originally supposed to play "Knight One" in the first season "Sky Full of Stars," but he had a heart attack and was unable to take the part, so JMS created the recurring Bester role for him.

And as for the Technomages, they actually become a lot more important in the spinoff series and the Technomage trilogy of books that came out after the series ended.

As for the emotional impact of "Chrysalis," I think a lot of it actually depends on knowing what comes later. When Sinclair says. "Nothing's the same anymore," he's so right that it gives me shivers.

Well....

I was thinking the same thing about that episode when I was watching it...and B Squared as well. I'm guessing they'll resonate a lot more when I have a context for them.

Watched 5 episodes this weekend:

The Coming of Shadows

Loved this episode...largely for the reasons I mentioned in my last post (a G'Kar and Londo episode). It was great to see Sinclair again, and his messages were cryptic in a good way. This was my kind of episode in every way...Londo starts a war, good space battles, the shadows making thier presence felt in a subtle way (at least on B5), G'Kar and Londo at each other's throats, Londo's dream...all GREAT STUFF! Plus a minimum of cheesy family drama from the B5 staff and no forced humor. Probably the first episode that I'd give a solid 5 stars.

GROPOS

This one had all of the stuff I dislike and none of the stuff that I like. I'm noticing a trend of sandwiching a turd episode between really good ones (just like the one between B Squared and Chrysalis). With that in mind, I was expecting the next one to be good...

All Alone in the Night

And it was. I know I harp on it, but I really enjoy the space battles on this show for some reason. Kosh invading Sheridan's dream was great...and those birds have to be symbolic of something. I'm trusting Ivanova even less now. The whole escape thing was a bit cheesy, but otherwise, this was a tight episode. "You have always been here"...is Sheridan psychic? Don't answer that.

Acts of Sacrifice

I liked this one too. Londo is getting really creepy, and it's obvious why the shadows chose him...though he does show some remorse in unofficial settings. G'Kar is becoming a far more serious character as well. Again, the relationship between these two is my favorite part of the show.

I hated the Ivanova "sex scene". It was out of character and stupid...cringeworthy even.

Still a good episode.

Hunter, Prey

The Kosh part of this episode was really good, but as I've said before, the earth conspiracy stuff isn't working for me.

Latest quibble: Every time somebody comes to B5 that is directly related to the past of the core B5 staff, it just shrinks the universe for me...and it is a REGULAR plot device on this show.

Nothing terribly bothersome about this episode, but not much memorable either...other than Kosh.

"What do you want?"
"Never ask me that."

Thanks for the info "dstrauss"

Still reading.

Fun to follow along, keep it up!

I was beginning to wonder if anybody was interested. It's just too bad this show never got the broad appeal it deserved.

Anyway, I knocked out 3 today...

There all the Honor Lies

Another whodunnit...nothing to see here. I liked it better when it was called "the Pilot".

And Now For a Word

I liked this one. The structure was a bit goofy, but it was a nice change of pace. The Narn/Minbari stuff is progressing nicely as well. I guess they did this as sort of an intro for new viewers. Psi-corps commercial was sort of fun...reminded me of Starship Troopers (the movie).

In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum

Great episode! I saw the thing with Sinclair's wife coming, and there were no huge surprises for anyone who had been paying attention, but it was great to see the story progress and to see Sheridan find out. It was silly, but I also loved the little conversation between Morton and Vir.

"What do you want?"
"I want to live just long enough to see your severed head on a pike, so I can look up and wave just like this. Can you make that happen Mr. Morton?"

The other tidbit that got my attention:

"Recognized by who?"
"By everyone"

I'm fully convinced, given these statements, the light, the doctor asking Ivanova if she believed in God, and the general religious overtones of the show, that Kosh is some kind of God figure. Maybe not God in the conventional sense, but something close...and to everyone.

Please don't tell me if I'm right or wrong. This is getting good.

Actually, I've completely lost interest in the Buffy/Angel threads. It's no fun when the poster almost makes it sound like it's drudgery getting through something. This is much more interesting. :D

Chew bites his lip.....