Screw it...I'll watch at least 1 episode today.

Fabiana Udenio

If you're going to make your own run at the show, I wonder if you might want to start a separate discussion thread so as not to overlap <b>chess</b>. You probably think it isn't necessary right now, but if you keep going forward, I suspect you'll want to talk about it a lot. Besides, at this rate, <b>chess</b>'s journey to watch this show is going to be its own 5-year arc. ;)

das

:D

Once I get going, I'll probably average an episode/day. This trip is just an unavoidable interruption...and during my little guy's spring break no less. :(

Besides, I got through the first couple episodes as promised... :p

General thoughts:

I already see improvements across the board.

The writing is interesting so far with plenty of mystery and political intrigue. I'm getting the feel now that they are opening a lot of arcs that will take a long time to resolve, which is nothing if not ambitious. D'Kar and Londo are a time bomb, and Delenn and the Vorlon get more mysterious by the second.

The new characters are definitely a net plus. I like the new first officer infinitely better than the Asian one in the pilot...more on that to come. I guess the new Psy-corps officer is a wash, but I like that they fleshed out the psy-corps as a bit more menacing presence. The new doc? Meh. I really liked the old one.

The production values have gone up significantly over the pilot. The space stuff is handled beautifully. I especially like the attempts at realism for space flight....although nobody ever seems to figure out that sound doesn't travel in space. So far, the fighters don't handle at all like airplanes, and I appreciate that. The makeup has also improved, particularly in the case of Delenn, who no longer has that freakish looking jaw/chin thing that didn't allow her to emote. As an added bonus, we lose the cheesy 80s hair!

Midnight on the Firing Line

First, we get the introduction of the new first officer, Ivanova, out of the way, and I like her...mostly. I liked her fiestiness when the psy-corps officer, also a new intro, showed up. "I have 15 things to do right now, and they are all annoying". I also liked her line when Garabaldi asked her if she was a pessimist..."No, I'm Russian..." One minor quibble: just when I'm starting to like her and take her seriously, she says she's voting for the guy with the better chin. What?

I like the story in this episode, though I hope G'Kar isn't the goat in every episode. He's 2 for 2 so far, and his race doesn't seem terribly sophisticated. Kudos for the direction they took Londo in. They gave him a goofy sidekick, so he could stop being comic relief and could be menacing. I also liked the "history" between Ivanova and the psy-corps...not to mention the fact that the corps sounds like a bunch of fascists and are probably running the government or something. One beef with the story: it was a bit too convenient IMO for them to have the raider story and the colony story come to a head at the same time. That kind of writing can get annoying.

But all in all, this episode covered A LOT of ground with new characters and their backstory along with expanding the scope of the characters in the pilot. :up:

Soul Hunter:

I'm not sure if I was tired when I watched this or if it was just a bit boring, but I had to fight off sleep. It felt talky, like Star Trek, in a bad way. The Soul Hunter was played well, but was just a goofy character. It's probably not fair, but I couldn't help but compare with the first episode...the downside of watching them back to back, I guess. I'm going to try not to do that again as I really feel it can diminish good episodes.

However, we did get to meet the new doc, who just feels like a substitution to me...which is OK because I didn't mind the direction they were going with the first one. We also get a new mystery to digest: the Minbari gray council...and why a member of said council is the ambassador on Babylon 5...and how they are "using" the humans.

Quibble: Sinclair didn't really just shoot the wall 5 times and then shoot the gun right out of that guy's hand did he?

I'm impressed so far. It's a bit shaky here and there...mostly in that they seem to be struggling with the comic relief. A lot of it is funny (my second favorite thing) but just as much feels out of character and ill timed.

Obviously, I give these criticisms in a constuctive way for discussion purposes, not to tear down a show that is obviously highly regarded.

See you guys in a week!

Spelling check time again.. it's G'Kar, not D'Kar :)

It's Psi Corps.

Yeah, and things definitely improve as the series goes on, especially the effects in the space scenes. The whole "sound in space" thing was actually brought up by JMS once or twice. I think the explanation he gave was that technically, something blowing up up in space could produce a shockwave of some sort that could be heard when it hit the hull of a ship or something.

That, and it would have been boring to have no sound :)

Yeah, Ivanova is probably the character that takes the longest to really "fit". You could have a whole drinking game revolving around how many times she brings up her Russian background in the first season...

As they say around here, "heh, heh, heh..."

:D:up:

That's just Ivanova's sense of humor, it takes a little while to get used to her, and I think it took a bit for Claudia Christian, who's a very outgoing and adventuresome woman (as anyone who bought her first CD will attest to), to play someone who starts off so reserved and private.

watched two this morning...

Born to the Purple:

This episode didn't really work for me for some reason. I really like Londo's character and the story was OK, I guess. However, it didn't appear to work in furthering the larger arc (other than establishing the existance of the purple files, possibly) and it didn't do much for me as a standalone episode.

Also, The footnote about Ivanova's dad was utterly pointless. I get that she's had a rough time...I don't need to be beat over the head with it. Finally, my fears about G'Kar being made fool of in every episode continue to play out.

Infection:

I mostly liked this one. The story had a nice sci-fi slant and I liked the moral about the pitfalls of an exclusionary ideology. The creature effects were pretty good too. It was also interesting that the story worked entirely without the alien ambassadors...though it might have been the only way they could avoid making an ass of G'Kar. ;) My guess is that this episode didn't do much for the overall arc either, but at least it was decent on its own.

Quibble: when the monster went down and the camera went back to the captain, I was thinking please don't pan back to a perfectly normal (and live) human body...and sure enough, they did it. Ugh. Sorry, just a pet peeve.

General comments: I'm really missing space flight these past few episodes and hope they get back to it more in the future. I'll also be glad when they are finished establishing characters and they start developing them. So far, Londo and G'Kar are my favorite characters along with Garabaldi to a lesser extent. Ivanova will probably get better when the writers are done manipulating me, but the captain and the Psi-corps officer aren't doing much for me at all.

Still, quibbles and growing pains aside, it's already better than most of the stuff on TV. I'm not sure if it's still on topic, but so far, I'd have to give Farscape the edge over B5, but it's kind of close and that's saying a lot.

I may watch a couple more tonight, and will certainly knock out several this weekend.

It's good to be home.

Man, I love reading stuff like this. I think every B5 fan wishes they could watch it all over again for the first time, but since that's not possible without a major head injury, it's pretty cool to see somebody else's initial reactions to stuff.

The main arc of the show doesn't really start kicking in until a bit down the road. A lot of the beginning episodes are more or less standalone, but there are bits and pieces from them that are referenced later, or at the very least, important to the theme of the series as a whole.

Yay! A B5 newbie thread to watch. :D

I've been trading B5 for my wife's shows (lately just Buffy/Angel). I've seen the show 3 times and it is, period, the best damn story ever on TV.

If it helps my wife says the show is good but she doesn't like it as much as me. Keep in mind she detests Star Trek and its similiar stuff and is mainly sort of indifferent towards stuff like Star Wars...if it is on space ships normally she doesn't like it...but she still likes B5.

She is bored by the space stuff in B5 (i.e. space fights, wars etc) but she has been drawn in by some of the interesting characters (make sense considering she likes Dawson's Creek, Felicity, etc - character driven shows).

Oddly, I consider Infection the worst B5 episode ever. Seriously, if you can enjoy that, you should have no problem with the show. Oddly my wife liked Infection as she has a weakness for campy horror.

I never thought Infection was all that bad. Not only that, but I can think of at least two episodes that I thought were a whole lot worse...

I've already seen two episodes that I thought were worse!

Keep plugging through the first season, Chess. It going to get very interesting very soon.

2 more tonight, both pretty good IMO:

The Parliament of Dreams

Another whodunnit? This one had some really funny moments. I especially liked this little background moment when you see G'Kar's hand come from off screen to swap his fruit with Ivanova. And Londo was great as always...this time tossing a biscuit at the captain. Irreverent and hilarious.

The exploration of religion was interesting as well, and I especially liked the end. We also get to meet the Captain's new love interest, who is pretty hot IMO.

G'Kar finally got to make somebody else look like an ass! Bravo!

No quibbles with this episode.

Mind War

This one wasn't quite as good as a narrative, but it did confirm some of my suspicions about the psy-corps, which I suspect is a major part of the larger arc.

There was also a bit of unfortunate casting. I'm pretty sure I laughed out loud when Chekov showed up, but that's mostly because I mistook him for a monkee. Anyway, he was actually pretty good in the role.

My favorite part of this episode though, is the side story and final footnote between Catherine and G'Kar. I'm noticing a trend of ending these shows with a poignant thought. This one with the ant metaphor, the above episode with the earth religions, Infection with the nazi metaphor, and a few others, I think.

Talia is officially my least favorite character, but it looks like things might be picking up for her...we shall see. They also need to find something for Ivanova to do besides looking serious, reminding us that she's Russian, and having family tragedies. Hopefully that's coming soon as well.

Just a little nitpick, his rank is actually Commander :)

Yeah, the whole "Ivanova being russian" thing is really beaten to death during the first season, but it does stop eventually.

There's so much more I want to say, but I don't even want to hint at a potential spoiler....

I'm sure I'll get all the details right eventually in regards to spelling, names, ranks, etc. Meanwhile, just bear with me.

I watched two more this morning, and I'm guessing I'll watch a few more later tonight. I'm trying to slow down, but it's just starting to get good...

I think it's safe to say that the hook is already pretty well set. Sadly, season 2 is the only season that hasn't arrived yet, so I don't want to zip through season 1 too fast.

I'll report on the two I watched this morning along with possibly another couple later on tonight.

:banana:

There's a LOT more in that scene that you see at first glance. Listen to the specific words of Delenn's monologue, and who the camera shows as she says each of her phrases. It's very important later down the road.

"Parliament" is also a personal favorite of mine because it's the episode where Joe named a character after me.

&lt;kosh&gt;
Yes.
&lt;/kosh&gt;

Again, something that will become important two seasons later. As G'kar says, "Nobody here is exactly who they appear to be."

4 episodes total today, 2 this morning and 2 tonight:

The War Prayer:

Nothing terribly memorable in this one for me...except for the establishment of the "Homegaurd" and an interesting explaination for the departure of some of the characters missing from the pilot (only one to see a Vorlon and only one to scan a Vorlon). Interesting. I assume that the reality is that the actors left or were let go for various reasons, but I like the way they worked it into the plot, and I'm guessing one of them will find their way back. Still a pretty weak episode.

And the Sky Full of Stars:

A pivotal episode with more on the "hole" in Sinclair's mind and on the Gray Council. The pre-Matrix virtual reality stuff was pretty cool, but it was clearly just a device to fill in some of the blanks...so to speak. Overall, a good and effective episode. I'm certainly curious about Delenn and the mysterious surrender, and this new menacing looking Menbari that I'll just call triangle-head for now. Most of all, I'm trying to decide whether Sinclair really is a Minbari agent (witting or unwitting). Shades of Blade Runner.

Deathwalker:

I enjoyed the whole expediency over morality play in this one and thought that the Deathwalker was appropraitely disturbing. I also liked that the Vorlons stepped in and the way Sinclair and Garabaldi spoke of them as "God" was interesting. There's also something about Vorlons (who are clearly telepaths) and the psi-corps that I can't put my finger on yet...

Interesting that Delenn was "off station" after the previous episode.

Believers:

Pretty much a standalone episode of little consequence, but I have a soft spot for the subject matter (biomedical ethics) and it's especially poignant given the whole feeding tube thing in Florida right now. This episode takes on a number of big issues that are rarely addressed on TV in such a thoughtful way...some successfully, some less so. It would be brave IMO to put this on the air now, much less 10 years ago, much less in a sci-fi show. Good stuff, and great follow through at the end.

It was also nice to see Ivanova leave the "bridge" and it was nice to see a bit of space flight to get us out of the "studio" feel the show has been in lately.

Finally, I LOVED the responses of the ambassadors (and Sinclair) to the plea of the parents. They were deep, well written, and said volumes about who they were as characters and the values of their respective races. G'Kar just became my favorite character.

General thoughts

Business is picking up. :up:

Unlike the first 4-5 episodes, no groaners lately. The humor hasn't been ill-timed or out of character and the writing has transitioned from momentarily clever to very consistant.

Quibble: the repetitive opening shots of the rendered B5 are getting annoying. It probably wasn't so bad when you watched them week to week, but it's very noticable on DVD.

Chess - glad you're enjoying this so far. There are still a couple of real clunkers coming your way this season, but you're starting to get to the "meat" of the show. The series creator described this first season as the introduction to his "novel", where the characters and basic plotlines are explored and revealed. If you like it so far, you're going to absolutely love it later.

Also useful to note is that David Gerrold, who wrote the episode, had just adopted a little boy when JMS assigned him this episode.

Well, the rendering capacity of Foundation was growing constantly as the series progressed. At this point in season one, they were spending a lot of time rendering stuff for "Signs and Portents" and "Chrysalis," which will be coming up soon.

Oh, cool, he's gonna be at "Babylon Squared" soon.... heh heh heh.

Because of you I went ahead and watched the last dics today. I've got to admit, that last episode had me crying like a baby.

Wow, it's pretty cool to find a B5 n00b this interested in Season 1. It's usually like pulling teeth. ;) It should make Season 2 and beyond all the better.

I'm rewatching this for the first time, and I'm up to Babylon Squared. This first season is actually pretty good. There are "signs and portents" all over the frickin' place, and watching this knowing how it turns out is a whole lot of fun.

watched a bunch yesterday:

Survivors

Nothing terribly memorable for me in this one...except that I was a bit bored with the basic premise (good guy framed and on the run). More shenanigans from the Homegaurd and their nifty new suits.

By Any Means Necessary

A labor relations episode with a stereotypical republican coming aboard to "negotiate" a violent settlement. I can't say that this one did much for me, except that I enjoyed the side-story between Londo and G'Kar.

Signs and Portents

This was a busy episode and a very good one. More about the relationship between Sinclair and the Minbari...more about the decline of the Centauri...a new guy that could be a potential menace or at least a Vorlon adversary (I noticed before that Kosh was represented by light, so I'm wondering if this guy is one of the "shadows" I've heard about)...Delenn gets the triangle-head, presumably because of the presence of that guy. A Centauri precog? It seems each of the races (except the Narn) has established some sort of psychic ability, with the Vorlons clearly being the most advanced. And of course, plenty of space action, which I actually enjoy...sue me.

Good stuff all around.

TKO

A forgettable boxing story and a heavyhanded Ivanova sidestory. Bah.

Grail

Hi, I'm Larry, this is my brother Daryl, and this is ambassador Kosh. They had me for a minute there, but the lack of light gave it away. In the pilot, Kosh was absolutely radiant. The seeker thing was kind of a silly premise.

The highlight of this episode had to have been the alien abduction trial. Funny stuff.

General thoughts

These must've been a few of the clunkers Bandoman was talking about. I still enjoy a lot of the dialogue in the "bad" episodes, but the basic premises feel a bit forced. It's like they discussed what token episode to do next...

"what kind of episode should we do next?"

"How about a boxing episode?"

"Great idea! After that, let's do a holy grail episode!"

"Huh?"

Yeah, you're pretty much through the worst section of the season at this point. TKO is regarded by a lot of fans as the worst B5 ep, too, so it's not just you.

Now it's time for the real good stuff to start...

TKO sucks. 'Nuff said.

One of the great things about B5, though, is that even in most of the "bad" episodes you get some dialogue/scenes that further the overall plotline.

Signs and Portents is where things start to pick up, then a few clunkers, and by Voice in the Wilderness and Baylon Squared you're in the thick of things.

I was going to post the same thing. Just about everyone, with a few expections, will list "TKO" as the worst episode of the series. You still have some gems like "Grey 17 Is Missing" ahead of you, but for the most part the worst is behind. If you're enjoying it now, you're in for one hell of a ride.

das

Wow, with so many not liking season 1 it is a wonder the show lasted. Personally I liked season one and Michael O'Hare.

I would certainly watch the Gathering and then continue through with the season 1 eps.

One thing everyone seems to agree on is that it is a great show. You will not be disapopinted..

It just occurred to me that my last post might be interpreted that I'm not enjoying the show. Honestly, if these last few episodes are the worst this show has to offer, I'm really looking forward to the rest of the journey. Even the bad episodes have moments that I really enjoy.

Also, It's a different experience to know that I should be paying the utmost attention to what happens and what's said because it's almost always going somewhere and hinting at something. I can't say just how subtle a lot of it is, not knowing what's going to happen, but even passing lines (especially from the ambassadors) seem to be working on several levels. It makes for an engaging TV experience.

I know some big stuff is coming up...including the death (I presume) of Sinclair and and at least one big reveal. Please try not to spoil it with any "hints"...not that anybody has done that so far.

I actually like TKO a bit more than most people. My grandfather had passed away a week or so before it aired, and so the sitting shiva plotline had a lot of emotional resonance with me.

Mild TKO future-spoiler hint:

I watched the episode when I first got the DVD and haven't seen it all the way through since (it is by far the worst).

And I'm glad waporvare liked the finale but you can't say I didn't warn you about the crying part. When chess gets to S5 I might watch it again just to relive the memories. Who am I kidding, I might not wait that long with Babylon Squared coming up.

I went on a tear last night and finished S1.

Eyes

Pretty much a standalone episode, advancing the notion that psi-corps is a threat. Not a bad episode, but not terribly memorable either.

Legacies

Sheds a bit more light on the Minbari surrender and on Delenn. Since chrysalis is the name of the season finale, I assumed it was significant. As seems to be the usual case, one story line (the general) was working for me, but the other (psi-kid) wasn't.

A Voice in the Wilderness part 1 & 2

The trouble on Mars establishes the thought in my mind that the same sort of thing could happen on B5...especially if the earth government falls apart with the death of the prez. Also a potential new source of power/technology on the planet. Good episode. I loved Londo in this one. He has a great sense of whimsey.

In related news, it turns out the Ivanova is Russian.

Babylon Squared

I know you guys love this episode, and maybe it was just overhyped, but I wasn't as blown away as I'd hoped. I should preface that by voicing my disappointment about a "time travel" episode. Very Star Trek. Don't get me wrong, it was still a good episode, just not what I'd hoped. Every time I try to wrap my head around a time paradox, something in the structure just falls apart for me. So, he comes from the future to take B4, which he needs to help B5 in a great war, which he never would have been in a position to need in the first place if b4 hadn't disappeared (i.e. B5 wouln't have been built). I'm also very wary of sci-fi plotlines that involve "destiny" which is clearly where this is going. Whatever, I'll try to get over it. Zathras was an interesting character, and that certainly sounded like Delenn with Sinclair at the end. The grey council is fleshed out quite a bit, and Delenn clearly knows something that they don't (chrysalis). Despite my confusion and misgivings about the direction of the narrative, this was an excellent episode.

The Quality of Mercy

Clunk. Putting this between B-squared and the finale really hurt the flow for me. We'd built a lot of momentum, and then......this.

Chrysalis

More questions than answers here, but a lot of stuff came to a head (Delenn, Mars, President, Shadows). I'm pretty sure I have this light and dark thing pegged, but what I don't get yet is Sinclair and Delenn's role in the whole thing. I'm also confused why such an obviously powerful race (shadows) need to be so subversive and why another clearly powerful race (vorlons) need the humans at all. I get the significance of "gray" for the Minbari, but I'm pretty fuzzy about what it means in practical terms. It's also increasingly clear that B5 is going to be isolated from Earth in the near future. Good episode, and I'll certainly press forward, though I hope to slow down a bit.

General thoughts: Production quality has gone up again in the past 4-5 episodes, and I have high hopes for the next season. I was surprised that Sinclair didn't die or move on somehow. If it wasn't preplanned and was just a change of actors, I'm sort of dreading how that works out...especially with that whole Sinclair time travel business.

That's putting it mildly. :lol:

I thought you said you hadn't received S2 yet? Did it arrive and I missed it?

No, I was mistaken. I had season 2, but not 3. I got 3 in the mail yesterday, but it was in crappy shape for a "like new" listing (discs look like rentals!). I'm going to try to get a refund, so hopefully I can get it turned around and get another copy before I get to season 3.

The S3 discs seem playable, and I wanted to check them, but I didn't want to watch much of anything so as to not spoil S2. I chapter skipped through the two worst discs and they didn't skip at the chapter stops. I noticed a few new characters, and Delenn with hair (which I had seen anyway at some point along with the shadows), but otherwise, no major spoilers. I'm just bummed about the condition of the DVDs. I'm very careful who I buy from, and the guy had great feedback. It was also the last set of the six that I received, so he was the slowest shipper (by almost a week) to boot. :down:

I can only speak for myself, but I think when people mention this episode it's more in the context that along with "Signs and Portents", it marks a point when the show transfers from introduction (mixed with stand alones) to rising actions and significant strides in plot. After "Signs and Portents" you have some serious clunkers, but after "Babylon Squared", about 95% of the episodes until Season 5 kick ass. Don't get me wrong, I like the episode, but it's not a Top 5 or anything IMO.

As for the rest of your comments, it's becoming increasingly difficult not to respond, especially in defense of some of your criticisms, but I'll continue being a good little monkey and close with a simple "heh, heh, heh."

das

Really? I must have missed that. :lol:

Fair enough. I really set myself up to be blown away, which I know better. However, folks really did talk up the emotional impact of the finale. I'm entirely unclear where I was supposed to cry (and I've been known to tear up like a big wuss). Nobody died, except for a president we'd never (barely?) seen and the Narn base.

As for my criticisms, I guess I need to preface my comments with the fact that I really like the show. Other than Farscape and the Whedon shows, this is (or looks like it will be) the best thing I've seen in years. And given JMS' work on Spider-man (where I was introduced to him), I'm reasonably sure that all of my misgivings will be sorted out over the course of the show.

But weren't they talking about the series finale and not the first season one? At least, that was my impression and I could be wrong (as usual).