Is Babylon 5 for me?
 

Okay, so I'm a huge fan of Star Trek TNG and DS9, and I own all DS9 seasons on DVD and 3-7 of TNG. I've watched them many times and want to start immersing myself into a new sci-fi show. I have tried to get into Voyager and Enterprise and they are too painful to watch. They do not come close to TNG and DS9, in my honest opinion. What about Babylon 5? I hear the premise is similar to DS9. However, it's not a Star Trek, is it still good though? I've heard good things about it, but am reluctant to spend the cash for these sets. Can anyone convince me to get or not?

One minor annoyance I have with TNG and DS9 is that I wanted more space combat and action. Granted, I loved the shows which had character development and examined human/alien relations, but I'm a sucker for a good battle between two ships (or station against ship) with lots of explosions and tactical manuveurs. Does B5 capitalize on this?

TIA

I am doing them via Netflix. It's a cheaper way to go, IMHO.

I am on Season 1 right now, and it is just OK - certainly not deserving of the hype it has won on these pages. I am committed to going through Season 4, however, and I fully expect it to impress after Season 1 is finished.

I will tell you one thing, that Garibaldi dude can't act worth a damn (and Sinclair ain't too much either). :D

I pretty much posted the same question a long time ago, and I now have seasons 1-4 and will soon be buying season 5. I have already watched the entire series though.

The pilot (The Gathering) and season 1 are a little weak, but they are necessary for setup in the later stages. You can tell that they really are setting up for some big things though. I would keep watching even if you feel like the show is cheesy or not as great as everyone makes it out to be.

The acting, well it's pretty hit or miss on this show. That's the one thing that has always bothered me. Londo, G'kar, and Delenn are all really really good. The rest fall into the normal, to serviceable, to downright cheesy B-flick. You really just learn to ignore the bad acting because you're so focused on the overall storyline.

As many people have said before, if you're going to watch then commit to at least watching past season 1. You don't get an accurate portrayal of the show's quality if you only watch the first season.

I'm sure das will come in and say this all much better than I. Hell he could just copy 20-30 of his other posts singing the praises which got me to buy the show, but I figured I would give my take. It really is amazing if you give it a chance. Besides, what else are you going to do with your time?

Sounds like DS9. Before I got into the show people said the first two seasons were weak, but when I bought them I actually loved those seasons. Anyways, back on topic, how does this series compare to DS9? I'm assuming you've seen it, of course.

I haven't seen every episode of DS9, but I remember watching a lot of it. I loved DS9 though because of the continuing storyline, and it that's what you like about it, B5 is for you. I would also own the DS9 sets if they weren't disgustingly overpriced, but that's really not relevant to this.

Also, B5 is known for having big space battle sequences so it should fill your need for that.

I would say B5 emphasizes characters over battles, most of the time. But occasionally there is a big battle scene with lots of stuff flying around.

TV quality though, not movie quality. But tv quality was getting fairly good - 1st season battle scenes not as good.

As everyone has stated, Season 1 is the "plow through it" season, but by the time you get to season 3 and 4, you are definitely hooked - by the characters and by the action.

But if you want JUST the action/shoot em up, then B5 is probably not for you. You need to want plot/character as well.

I'm sure Stracynzski would want me to say:

B5 is a lot like DS9? No.

But DS9 is a lot like B5.


(Old arguments on who was first - chicken or egg?)

I agree on the aliens - they are very good. I still have moments with Sinclair and Garibaldi that I can't ignore.... :lol: The only other series that I have watched, again, based on reviews by this forum and the estimable das are the Buffy and Angel series - I think both of them have significantly better actors than B5. Maybe it's the comedy and drama elements that let them show their range. So far, B5 is pretty much straight drama (kind of soapy) and the main B5 actors are about the same level as soaps. None of the Buffy main actors are bad, in fact, they are all excellent.

But like I said, I have no doubt I will be won over as I move on....too many people who's opinions I respect have me convinced.

DS9 and B5 got me through a bedrest pregnancy with my sanity somewhat intact. I think if you like DS9, you will like B5 since they both have large story arcs. I think the acting by the main characters, including Sinclair and Girabaldi is fine; for me it's the bit part dialogue that gets cheesy (mechanics that seem "simple" in a way real blue collar workers aren't, etc.). But I look past that since it's a minor thing. Farscape is another space show with strong character development and long story arcs--if you haven't watched it, you should check that out too someday.

tasha

I don't think you'll find anyone around here hyping Season 1. If anything, we may be unfairly underselling it a bit. Anyway, we've said it a hundred times; stick with it (as you've indicated you plan to do) ... you'll be won over. :) And if not, hey, that's cool ... not everyone has good taste. :D

das

I Agree. I had never watched the show until last year but my partner had watched the complete series. We started watching it when it came to DVD and I feel the first season was a bit slow but once you get half way through it finds it's stride. After that, it's pretty amazing. If you stick around, you will be happy you do. Great story arcs and multi demensional characters(unlike most recent Trek) and you do get your battles too but they are few and far between until later seasons. If you want lots of dog fights and explosions you arent going to get it here. This is about characters more than anything.

I'm a fan of TNG and DS9 and I enjoy B5 a lot. Season 1 is mostly setup for later seasons so don't give up if season 1 is not to your liking. I think B5 season 3 and 4 are the best!

Are there any episodes on Sci-Fi or Spike TV? I would like to watch it first on TV and then if I like it, buy the DVDs. That's sort of the case with TNG. I watched TNG way back when and remembered how good of a show it was. Then, when I got a DVD player last year I saw that it was on DVD so picked it up.

That said, I'm sure the B5 DVDs aren't nearly as expensive as ST DVD sets. I will read some more reviews (hopefully they won't contain spoilers), see if it's on TV, and last resort, blind buy the sets.

My $0.02:

I was one of those who decided not to watch B5 when it started. I checked out a coupleof episodes and thought it looked too cheesy. Then others here convinced me to give a try on DVD, and it is now my favoritve TV series (of any genre).

The emphasis is on the story and character development, but IMO that makes the battles that much better when they do occur - they not only have action, excitement, strategy and things blowing up, they also have meaning, and you're not always sure whether the good guys won, the bad guys won, or which were the good guys anyway. This show is anything but predictable. Enjoy!

Mostly good, with a few occasional mistakes.

Of course, I still have the "aliens live behind glass" section of the pilot. The old "alien zoo" scene.

Glad they took that out, but I do still have the VHS!

Well, Sci-Fi used to show an episode every weekday at 9AM, but they stopped a while ago.

Either way, it's not really a show that you can jump into the middle of, and that's one of the great things about it. There's a lot of character development, and more often than not, plot threads cross over quite a few episodes (especially after the first season), so just catching a random episode here and there won't really give you a good idea of the show's quality.

I think the best way to get these is buy them on ebay or half.com used. That way if you don't like them, you can sell the set back for what you paid and only be out the shipping and handling (plus you can buy one or two sets, sell them back and use that money to get the next sets). Or buy them new on a good enough sale that you would only lose a small amount selling them later. The show isn't on scifi anymore, but it doesn't really work to watch these from the middle because the plot and characters are complicated enough that they have to be seen in order to "get" (the stuff going on won't really make sense--even if it seems like it is, the casual viewer would miss the nuances of what's really happening.)

It really is a good show; actually a great one. It seems much more planned than most space operas--there is stuff in season one that doesn't seem important until it comes back years later as setup for some new plot twist. And the characters go through deep and compelling changes--G'Kar and Londo in particular are very different by the end of the series than how they began. The care in plotting and character development isn't surprising here considering the talent involved in writing the series. JMS got great writers to help, including Harlan Ellison and Neil Gaiman. You should give it a try--for me, it's a better show than TNG or DS9 (though I am very fond of those treks, especially DS9) and I think you would probably like it.

tasha

:wave:

Hyping ... not defending. ;)

das

I searched for a tvtalk thread about babylon 5 and this title jumped out at me. I have seen Babylon 5 threads all over the forum and was always kinda curious as to what the hype was all about. Everyone raving about how awesome it was, etc... Anyway, I had no idea until recently that the show was related to Star Trek. This thread makes that pretty clear of course and I would've figured it out on my own eventually, but there were times when I was reading certain B5 threads about how great it is with people suggesting a blind buy for anyone with no mention of a prereq being that you like star trek, and they almost got me. ALMOST. Thank god I didn't fall for it. I'm not anti-Star Trek, but I'm not much of a fan either.

Not to crap on the thing, I still haven't seen the show (well, I probably have seen some of it at some point, but can't remember) and I'm sure it's as awesome as people say it is for those who like that kind of thing. I don't know - I guess I'm posting this because I had B5 on the brain for awhile and finally someone told me it's Star Trek stuff and it kinda feels like I dodged an expensive bullet. Sorry. :)

Uhh, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but B5 has absolutely no relation to Trek, other than them both being set in space.

As far as the original topic goes, I have to say that I highly recommend B5. I found the battle sequences to be far better than anything on Trek. Not only are they a lot more convincing, but most of the heavy effects shots from the second season onward actually have some serious bearing on the plot. If there's ever a big fight in the series, then it's usually been built up to, so you know what the characters have at stake.

As others have said, the pilot episode and first season are the weakest parts of the series, but definitely required viewing. Not only does it introduce the different characters and races, but it lays the foundations for several running plotlines, as well as gives a starting point for a few of the characters who go through some very dramatic changes throughout the course of the series. Without watching the first season, you couldn't appreciate some of the stuff later nearly as much. Besides, just because the first season is the weakest of the show doesn't mean that it's bad, just that it's not as excellent as the rest. There's really only one or two episodes that one could consider "bad", and even those have some foreshadowing or character development.

Do any stores sell the original versions, all I can find is the new version (even though Amazon lists one as the old version)./

Nobody sells the original pilot. Quite frankly, I don't know of any reason why you'd want to see if, except if you like the Stewart Copeland score. It really isn't half as good as the revised version. The number of character scenes that are cut from the original really hurts. Plus, the revised version has much tighter editing and pacing.

I just want to see the "alien zoo" segment because it sounds interesting.

My 2 Cents:

There is no comparison between B5 and Star Trek(Original, TNG,DS9,Voyager,Enterprise) It's apples and oranges. B5 is far superior IMHO. There is a price to pay for watching this show and that would be watching the first season. Now don't get me wrong...I did enjoy the first season but it is slow compared to seasons 2,3 and 4 which are the real meat of the show. And for that matter season 5 is not as good either. Get through the first season and you won't be disappointed. When I got to an episode late in the first season entitled "Babylon Squared" I was well and truly hooked!! That particular episode is still one of my favorites from the whole series! Anyway...beg, borrow or steal but WATCH THIS SHOW!!!!!
Take care!!!!

So... B5 has absolutely no relation to the Star Trek series?

Well, they do both take place in space.

Hmm... guess my friend was wrong. Disregard my comments then... here's something though. I looked it up in IMDB and discovered that the creator of B5 and writer of most of the episodes has an impressive resume writing for tv.

Murder, She Wrote
Walker, Texas Ranger
Captain Power
Jake and the Fatman
He Man and the Masters of the Universe
She-Ra, Princess of Power
The Real Ghostbusters

Or, as Joe calls it, "Jake and the Fatman (I'm Sorry.)"

Actually, Captain Power was a lot better than anyone had a right to think it would be. I wish they'd release it on DVD.

Babylon 5 is for everybody.

Except my wife, who refuses to watch any of "those space shows". *sigh* That's gotta be grounds for divorce, right?

I'm a big B5 pusher and find that a lot of people are resistant to science fiction. They think it's all pulp. But, if I can get them to watch several episodes, then they are hooked. It is the best story ever told on tv, imho.

I'd say yes, watch B5 all the way through. In season 1, you'll be thinking to yourself, "Where the hell is all this going?"

By the end of season 4 you'll be kicking yourself for not watching it sooner. Babylon 5 is like a 120 hour long movie. Things that happen in season 1 directly (and indirectly) have consequences in Season 2, 3, 4, and 5.

Watch it, trust us, you'll love it. If not, I'll give you all of my bling.

cfg

Another DS9 fan who also loves B5, and gives both shows an enthusiastic thumbs up.

Agreed, the first season of B5 can be slow, but has its share of very good episodes ("Infection", "Deathwalker", "Babylon Squared"). The most important part of this season is to pay attention to certain events and realize that posed mysteries (e.g., what do Vorlons look like?) will be answered. Season one is also what helps establish what's going on in each government and how it affects the people on the station and sets up the much larger picture later.

If you want some help in what to keep in mind, go to <a href="http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/us/eplist.html">The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5</a> for a breakdown on each episode's important points. You might want to watch the episode first, then go read the analysis. Be warned, though - sometimes spoilers will be revealed, but you'll be warned. This is a really helpful sight that added to my enjoyment of the show due to the small things I missed when I first watched it on the tube (like in "The Parliament of Dreams", when G'kar swaps a piece of fruit with Ivanova, who doesn't realize).

Also realize that you will get space battles - and some really big ones, too - but it will take a while. The SFX of the first season can be hit or miss, but it gets much, much better.

To put it in DS9 terms: think "In The Pale Moonlight" for politics, and "The Way of the Warrior" for battles.

In a word, yes...

Well, I just finished disc one of season one. It's okay so far I guess, but parts of it are hard to sit through. Do any of the following things get better?:

1. Londo - So far I HATE this character. I hate the way he sounds (I seriously cringe whenever he comes onscreen with that weird Russian-esque accent), I hate the way he looks. Please tell me this character gets more tolerable.

2. Insect Man - I don't hate the animatronic insect guy, but I bust into laughter every time he comes onscreen. Whenever he shows up I feel like I'm momentarily transported to the Satellite of Love.

3. The CGI - I know it's early era CGI, and I can mostly deal with it, but does this improve?

I had similar feelings after getting through season 1 along with really having no attachment to any of the characters, though I did like Kosh from the start. Very soon into season 2 this all changed for me and by season 3 I just couldn't stop watching.

In the history of television, I cannot recall a single character that has gone through more of a change over the course of a series. If you hate him now, wait. (Although how he looks isn't going to change).

Isn't his hair bad all through season 1, or is it just The Gathering where his hair was awful?

N'Grath isn't a major character. You'll see little of him

CGI definitely got better as the tech progressed.

I'd probably give up now. It's not going to get much better.

das