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-   -   Angel 2-4-2004 - The return of an old friend (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/tv-talk/345186-angel-2-4-2004-return-old-friend.html)

Rubix 02-04-04 09:18 PM

i haven't seen this ep yet but if spike is playing donkey kong on an xbox then maybe he chipped the xbox, and ran a emulator + rom on it. all illegal! but than again he kills people.

Patman 02-04-04 09:20 PM

It was a fitting end in that with her last wish, Cordy was able to get the Angel train back on track and re-discover his inner voice to do the work that lies ahead of him and his team. And like she said, she didn't belong anymore to this world, given the topsy-turvy changes that have occurred in the year that she was "gone".

I was glad I didn't read any spoilers, though given the "guest starring" nature (and real life issues/contracts/etc), I knew Cordy wouldn't be around, and she definitely won't be around for good.

Farewell, Cordy, thanks for bringing back the cleavage.

Chew 02-04-04 09:27 PM


Originally posted by Breakfast with Girls
Well that ****ing sucks.
That just about sums up the ending for me. :(

boredsilly 02-04-04 09:34 PM

I'm in the Baltimore area too, had to bust out the old 13 inch black and white tv from like 1982 along with the bunny ears. I hate our WB.

That was a really great ep. Best ep this season and one of the better Angel eps period IMHO. So much story was crammed into one hour. It's weird though, this makes me wonder where the rest of the season is going since they seemingly wrapped up all of this seasons arcs. I know I'll be around to find out.

Doughboy 02-04-04 09:37 PM

Damn good episode, although not as great as Buffy's 100th. And speaking of which, why wasn't there a special "Previously on Angel" intro with clips of the first 99 shows?

I guess I'm not too pissed about Cordy's fate. First of all, I kinda saw it coming with all the rumors about a "secret ending" having been filmed. And with the likelihood of Charisma Carpenter returning again being slim to none, you'd figure Joss would take this opportunity to write her out of the show for good. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this was his final way of getting back at her after their reported falling out last season. Regardless, it was handled in a relatively classy manner.

What actually disappointed me the most tonight was Lindsey's fate. That can't really be it for the character, can it?! Ok, I guess I can buy that the gameplan for Lindsey and Eve the entire time was a hostile takeover of Wolfram & Hart(the LA branch, at least). But it wasn't exactly a well-executed plan. Once Team Angel found out, they took him out in all of 5 minutes. And now he's gone? 3 episodes and out?! I hope he's coming back from whatever dimension he was sucked into Connor-style, cuz otherwise we just lost the best possibility at a story arc this season had.

Other than that, it was a sharply-written, well-acted episode. It was great seeing the real Cordy again, even if she was there only in spirit. The references to numerous past episodes were refreshing. I know they've been ordered by the WB to appeal to new viewers this season, but I say screw the newbies. This is the 100th show. Reward the people who've been watching(and buying the DVDs) since day one. I really dug that Cordy remembered Connor. I had a feeling she would. Too bad they didn't let the gang find out the truth. Although Joss reportedly wants to save that for when/if Vincent Kartheiser returns.

The sword fight was also nice. I miss the epic fight scenes from Season 4. And even Harmony was cool. For once, they let her act like the soulless bitch she's always been(even in her pre-vamp days). Hopefully after the next couple of standalone episodes, the show will kick into high gear to finish out the year. And bring Lindsey back, damn it!!!

Dr. DVD 02-04-04 09:43 PM

I doubt that they wrapped up the arc totally. Lindsey didn't seem too reluctant to let the Senior Partners take him...

That said, while I already miss Cordy, it would be really sleazy and cheapen everything to bring her back IMO.
What's really interesting is that even though I didn't see the solution that arrived coming, when Cordy turned to leave Angel's office, I kind of knew that we were never going to see her again. While I could have done without her last year, when you take a look at the Cordy of tonight right before her departure and compare it to the one we first met in the first season of Buffy, she really did undergo some major change as a character.

R.I.P. Cordelia Chase, we shall miss you.

DGibFen 02-04-04 09:59 PM


Originally posted by Doughboy
And with the likelihood of Charisma Carpenter returning again being slim to none, you'd figure Joss would take this opportunity to write her out of the show for good. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this was his final way of getting back at her after their reported falling out last season.
I know this is off-topic, but what exactly happened there? I've heard that they had problems, but never heard any reasons why...

Doughboy 02-04-04 10:08 PM


I know this is off-topic, but what exactly happened there? I've heard that they had problems, but never heard any reasons why...
I'm not entirely sure, but one story I've heard was that she didn't inform Mutant Enemy early enough about her pregnancy which led to last minute rewrites for the Season 4 storyline. Joss and Tim Minear have openly stated that Cordy was always meant be the Big Bad last year, but the character of Jasmine had to be created when it became apparent that Charisma Carpenter would be a little too knocked up to finish the season.

This reminds me of the behind-the-scenes clip Joss did on the Buffy Season 2 set for the episode, "Passion". He said that a certain character's death(I won't reveal who since some of you may not have seen it) sent a message to the cast that they should be nice or he'd kill them off. I guess Charisma Carpenter learned that one the hard way.

Dr. DVD 02-04-04 10:16 PM

Golly, Whedon can be a D***head when wants. Guess that's your right when you get creative control of a show though.

mookiemeister 02-04-04 11:00 PM

Will
Spoiler:
Cordy
come back from time to time as a ghost now? How was she able to do it in the first place?

Doughboy 02-04-04 11:07 PM


Originally posted by Lara Means
So, uh, what the hell? Was Cordy a spirit? If so, why the hell did Angel get a call that she was alive when she was still in a coma? What kinda half-assed doctors do WR&H have? Was this episode a dream? If thats the case than nothing makes sense.
My interpretation is that the Powers That Be sent her to set Angel and Co. back on course by helping them stop Lindsey and Eve(or at least delay their plans). It's kinda like how Wolfram & Hart sent the decapitated Lilah back to Earth in "Home" to offer them the LA branch. Once Cordy and Lilah completed their tasks, they disappeared.

Of course, that's my version of what happened. It remains to be seen if they ever actually explain it(kinda like the Connor situation).

Gizmo 02-05-04 12:09 AM

$5 says Cordelia ill come back sometime in Angels run (if this happens to be the last seasn of Angel, then the final episode)

Lara Means 02-05-04 12:19 AM


Originally posted by Doughboy
My interpretation is that the Powers That Be sent her to set Angel and Co. back on course by helping them stop Lindsey and Eve(or at least delay their plans). It's kinda like how Wolfram & Hart sent the decapitated Lilah back to Earth in "Home" to offer them the LA branch. Once Cordy and Lilah completed their tasks, they disappeared.
You're right. Cordeila does say near the end that "The Powers owed her one" and that she took it. So, she came back to put Angel back on course. Sent back like Gandalf until her task is done. Cordy said that fighting beside Angel is not her anymore. That she's on a "different" path and this is the offramp. Maybe shes becoming one of the Powers That Be. A nice reward for all the sacrifice she did for them. Her body may be dead, but she'll come back again. Like freakin' Obi-Wan Kenobi, shell be back.

DRG 02-05-04 12:56 AM

On one hand, I loved the episode and the closure it brought. Cordy and all the other characters were pitch perfect. On the other hand, I disliked the abrupt end to the Lindsey storyline (if it is in fact over). The battle was cool, but all that setup just led to this?

Actually, in the middle of that battle I was hoping that Lindsey would be defeated by Angel but the "contingency plan" would be released before Cordy could stop it. It would be some completely badass Big Bad and kill off Cordy. End of episode. Oh well, I still have faith in something good nonetheless.

Without saying anything, the teaser for next week's episode looks interesting, but it could possibly end up being kind of silly. We'll see.

Lara Means 02-05-04 01:02 AM

X-Files did an episode called 'Triangle' which brought its characters to the World War 2 days. If next week's Angel is half as good as that.... I'll be happy.

Rubix 02-05-04 01:37 AM

i'm surprised no one has mentioned it, but don't you think cordelia kissed angel at the end to pass on her visions like how doyle passed them to her?

she turned and said your welcome after it.

Lara Means 02-05-04 03:09 AM

No she didn't pass them on. And she said You're Welcome for putting Angel back on track. He said "Thank you" at the end.

Original Desmond 02-05-04 06:13 AM

it was a great episode for the fans, sad ending but fitting

But it really resets the whole series, No Big Bad, nuttin, they need to get moving on setting up the second half of the series very soon!

LiquidSky 02-05-04 07:21 AM

Great episode! Very sad about Cordy, though. :( Also sad to see old footage of Doyle :(

It was cool to see Angel, Cordy, and Spike kicking butt!!

I hope this means we won't see Eve and her annoying voice/smirk for a while....

xVladx 02-05-04 08:03 AM


Originally posted by Original Desmond
it was a great episode for the fans, sad ending but fitting

But it really resets the whole series, No Big Bad, nuttin, they need to get moving on setting up the second half of the series very soon!

Well, depending on how you look at it, W&H is really still the big bad for the season. I seriously doubt that the senior partners gave Angel that much power just out of the goodness of their hearts. I do wish that the Lindsey storyline went a bit further, just because it was neat seeing the character again. Hopefully they can just keep the momentum from this episode going, and not get into a "Season 7 of Buffy"-style rut.

Zodiac_Speaking 02-05-04 08:11 AM

Best episode of season 5 yet...

The title, "You're Welcome" and all that transpired seemed to me that this was all well-planned out, especially the end. I too, heard of a secret ending, but I doubt if that was "to write her out". We'll find out w/audio commentry or future interviews but it all seemed well planned and executed.

No way is Lindsay and Eve finished, somehow they played into the senior partners hands and will be back...or atleast that's what I think (it would be a waste of an arc!).

Next weeks could be fun and interesting but it could be horrible. Never has either spike or angel said anything about their involvment w/WW2/Hitler.

Hopefully, next weeks is one of the last standalone eps. My adrenilene was pumping when this arc was going.
After the two-part story that was Seasons 3-4, I guess it is a nicer breather to have these standalones (they've been really good, too) but "you're Welcome" was like 5.11/5.12, half way done, a final arc should be hinted at soon.

Fingers are crossed for a Sixth Season..............................

Gizmo 02-05-04 10:48 AM

Lindsey isn't gone yet....

slop101 02-05-04 11:37 AM

Cordelia's breasts were all big and filled with milk - she's really
compensating for the last half of last season where she put on pregnancy weight.

The bummer was that the episode drove home how the show really needs Cordelia, and now she's gone.

Doug Heffernan 02-05-04 12:22 PM


Originally posted by slop101

The bummer was that the episode drove home how the show really needs Cordelia, and now she's gone.

I would agree, I was sitting there just thinking how great it would be if she returned - She was the one who kept everyone "real" especially Angel - You could tell they both were a little emptional in that last scene, I know I was.

Rico Diablo 02-05-04 12:25 PM


Originally posted by Rubix
if spike is playing donkey kong on an xbox then maybe he chipped the xbox
[Spike]Don't say "Chipped."[/Spike]

Awesome episode. If that ending didn't tear your heart out and throw it on the ground and stomp on it, then you never had one.

Slop101, you're right that this ep really did show how much Cordy is needed. She adds a great energy to the group. Maybe they're grooming Harmony to go through a maturation process like Cordy did. Doubt it, though

And seeing Doyle footage was a shocker. I miss that guy.

Lindsey has to come back at some point. He's too good a bad guy to just ditch.

Best episode of the season so far.

Oh, and cleavage :D :thumbsup:


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