Wasn't Lindsey missing a limb from season 2?

W&H gave him a new 'evil' hand before he took off.

Great episode! Alot of good things:
1. Fight scene between Spike and Angel was good with them both showing their vamp faces.
2. The scene with the guy coming towards Gunn and Eve with the axe and someone tackling him was a nice little surprise.
3. Spike and Angel's conversation when Spike took the Viper.
4. Druscilla being back.

But the number one thing I enjoyed was showing the flash to the 1880s where we see Spike and Angel hanging out like buddies, but then later on we see Angel and Druscilla on the bed.. This is the first time that you can really see why Spike doesn't care much for Angel since Spike has always been so infatuated with her.

I'm hoping there will be a better explanation on the postal box changing Spike back to corporeal form.. A flash of light just doesn't cut it for me..

Slaughter22

Another great episode! Had everything you could ever want!
As for the show, Smallville and Angel won't be on next week because of a movie, but it should return the week after...only a few more episodes to the big surprise of episode 100!

Great twist. I always hate this time of year with TV shows though. They string you along with new episodes all season, and right about the time they really pick up steam, they stop for the holiday season and you get nothing new until mid-January. Oh well, at least they found a way to get everyone waiting with baited breath.

Great responses, Angel is on a roll woooooooo:up:

:banana:

With the return of Lindsey aside, the best part of this episode for me was the comparison of old Spike to the new Spike. When he first met Angel after Dru brought him back to the mansion he had a look of fear on his face and then he stood up and beat Angel down at the end of the show. Then the show ended with Angel having a similar look of confusion and fear on his face. I know it isn't a whole lot, but great attention to detail in my opinion.

Just a few other random thoughts:

-- Wouldn't it be cool if Lilah came back to help stop Lindsey in order to renew their feud and start a new one with Eve? Since they worked together they really never could have it out the way Lindsey and Angel did, so it would be cool to end that story line.

-- I can't wait to see Wesley's reaction when he returns.

-- It was nice that the hatred between Spike and Angel was explained it better detail since all we really had to go on was Spike/Buffy.

--It is Shansu, not Shansoo or Shang Tzu.

Except that it's "Shanshu", not "Shansu".

I agree with you here but speaking from experience, wearing those masks completely tears up the face. not a pleasant experience to say the least. See me below for halloween two years ago.

http://werd.biz/Deamon.jpg

My best friends brother in law does make up semi profesionally. All I will say is he had connections and what you see their is me wearing one of the latex masks made for Spike. It looked awsome, I got many ooohs and ahh's walking around that day but man oh man was my skin messed up that night.

Shamu?

Mooshoo?

COOL!!! :)

I loved this episode - it's back to the good stuff - finally. :D I had not one complaint - this is exactly what I expect and want from my favorite show.

This was excellent!! The first episode I've truly enjoyed since season 2. Right from the start the ep had a feeling of old BtVS/Angel eps, and that's a good thing.

Thankfully Lindsey is back. It better not be a short trip either.

And I'm too all for Eve leaving, but only if she takes Fred with her. This show has a thing for making leading ladies very annoying: Kate (not always, but too often), Cordy (seasons 3&4), Fred (always) , and now Eve. The only one to survive this is Lilah.

I take it Alexis was on his honeymoon this week, eh? I missed Wesley. He's been the best character on this show from get-go in all aspects. On the other spectrum is Gunn. His character started off nicely, but the last 2 seasons it's been trashed.

Awesome episode. Loved seeing Lindsay back, and looking quite bad-ass to boot.

But hey, it was written by Fury and DeKnight, and directed by Skip Schoolnik. It pretty much HAD to be good.

Lindsay was one of the better characters on Angel, but I always felt his story arc was wrapped up when he went back home to Oklahoma. It seemed like he had finally made the right choice (to get out of the business of evil).

But what is Lindsay doing back? Is it to get revenge on Angel, or is he gunning for Wolfram and Hart?

It seemed that Angel and Lindsay left on good terms back in S2.

A couple of other points about Lindsay...

1) My favorite scene of his was in "Sanctuary" when he learns that Angel had taken Faith back to his apartment, and he smiles and laughs, like he admires Angel as an opponent.

2) I don't know if this has been covered or not, but it was established that Lindsay came from a poor background, and in S2, it was implied that he drove an old pickup truck into LA. It was also mentioned that he started out in W&H's mail room. Can we then assume that Lindsay went through the same process that Gunn did? At the time, I always thought those three things seemed sort of odd, and wondered when/where he went to law school and college.

awesome episode !

nice panties Eve ;)

spike v angel fight was awesome as were the flashbacks

loved the fact that spike won

Well in the flashbacks it showed Spike kinda being scared and hating Angelus for screwing Dru. The thing that bugs me is that was Angelus. Spike now knows what it is like to have a soul so you would think he could differentiate between the two. Besides I think Angelus is prob the better fighter I mean he took it to Faith in season 4 plus almost Buffy in season 3.

...but maybe that's the point. I don't see Spike as two different characters, before or after he acquired a soul. As much as Angel likes to think that he and Angelus are two completely seperate entities (and admittedly, there's a lot of evidence on the series to suggest that), maybe the two are more closely intertwined then he'd have us believe.

Personally, I'm happy with the way it was presented. I don't really want some long, pointless explanation about the metaphysics of turning Spike corporeal. I'm more interested in *why* he was a ghost in the first place rather than the how.

I like to think that Angelus is always there, beneath the surface. The vampire is the "dark side" of a person come to life. IMO, that's why he was always brooding--he was tortured by wondering how much of Angelus's atrocities were because of the person that Angel is.

ETA:

I think he wants to take down the Senior Partners, and now that the CEO is his old nemesis Angel, he's going to use/manipulate him to that end. I also have a theory that he also has some lingering Darla issues, and that he'll end up involving Connor in some way. Some people don't care for this idea, but I kinda want there to be a personal undercurrent to his latest feud with Angel.

"Conviction" will be re-run the first week of December. A lot of people don't expect new episodes until January. Damn it. Oh well, it'll give me a chance to enjoy my Alias S2, Buffy S5 and Firefly DVDs.

So are you telling me that you never got jealous of another person before? ;)

One thing to keep in mind about things concerning the two of them and their souls. Angel was cursed by having a soul so that he would know compassion and feel guilt for the attrocoties he had commited YET if you recall, and sadly I forget the episode name, there was one flashback episode where even with a soul Angel is telling I think Buffy or Cordy that feeds on a human who was shot while at work in a coffee shop. A guy comes in, Robs the place while only Angel is in it. The crook ends up shooting the clerk and when the clerk asks Angel for help, Angel simply locks the door and feeds. So even with a curse and the after feelings of guilt that he did in fact feel, the underlying humger and desires are there and the evil act is commited. So even with a soul he is not 100% good.

Now lets fast forward to Spike and his soul. Why was he given one? For love of Buffy. He was given a soul to be able to feel love but along with love comes jealousy and envy. So when he see's Angel and hears how everyone else thinks Angel deserves this all powerfull, mystical chance to become human again for all his good deeds and his pure intentions he thinks back on how Angel treated him. On how he was emotionally/mentally abused by Angel and in some cases Dru. He thinks on how Angel taunted him, used him, discarded him and now treats him like he is trash, like he is unsaveable when he was the one who helped create him. So here is the great hero who made him but wants no part in saving him. This guy deserves to be human again?

So think on this. Who deserves the prophecy more? The vampire who killed people in mass, slayed multiple slayers, was ruthless and cold OR the vampire who made him what he was and was cursed for it.

When I look at the big picture I dunno. Seems to me Spike was the victim of Angels actions, and as of yet, Angel has never apologized. Of all the things Angel can atone for, all of his sins, all of his wrong doings wouldn't saving Spike be the only thing he can fix even if it is centuries later? I mean there he is, right in front of Angel all day every day. The vampire he created, the vampire he shaped into a ruthless killer. A vampire who tried to emulate Angel himself. Why not save the one you damned instead of turning your back on him. So much for a caring soul.


I know Angelus did those things BUT Angel and his soul should be feeling all the guilt for it. You point out how Spike should be able to "differentiate between the two" but then again, can't Angel differentiate between the kind lovestruck poet William once was and the cruel killer Angelus made him become? Isn't that something Angel should be feeling guilty for?

I still consider Angel a great hero, but it makes ya think don't it? :)

Great episode! I still do not like Eve, though. I hope she get the axe soon.

I like the season and don't hate Eve as much as some people, but for some reason every time she says "counselor" or calls the gang "kids" her tone of voice just pisses me off. Come to think of it, just about all her line deliveries piss me off. Maybe I do hate her as much as everybody else. Something about her character that is just kind of annoying I guess.

Well in the flashback you mention Angelus is actually talking to Faith in season 4. Angel doesn't actually kill the guy but does indeed choose not to help either. Later he does feed on the dead corpse. Of course we know this is before Angel met Buffy and decided to be the "champion" that we here every episode about.

Angel never made Spike do anything, it was his nature. Granted he may have learned a lot from Angelus but he decided to follow in his footsteps.