I caught a few random episodes here and there on TV before, but never really understood the show... but about a year ago I got the Season 1 Box Set and I've been hooked. One of the most fun shows on TV! It really is a show you have to watch in order, there are no stand alone episodes.

I really liked Season 1 because it had an innocence that was lost in later seasons. Just a bunch of normal kids who happen to be friends with a Vampire Slayer. You really have to watch Season 1 to get to know and care about the characters. even tho Seasons 2 and 3 pick up the action and got darker.

I just finished Season 4 watching each episode back to back with Season 1 of Angel so the crossovers fit in perfectly. It was great fun, but not as classic as 2 and 3. I really liked it tho, other than the direction of Willow's character.

It's great to watch it from the beginning in order, I've been avoiding all the spoilers for later seasons so it will be fresh. I know some people who started watching it in the middle of the later Seasons and then went back and saw the older ones... I can't see how that would be nearly as fun. I wish I could have watched Doctor Who in order from the beginning.

I just finished season 2 last night and I'm sooo ready to start in on season 3 tonight. In my TV viewing, I compare everything to Babylon 5 as it's my favorite TV series of all time. I'd say Buffy holds up fairly well against that standard.

So far my only real gripe with Buffy is there's some real unbelievable things from time to time. For example, in Go Fish: I noticed stuff like this all through the season. Suspension of disbelief is one thing, but sometimes they still cross the line. I thought B5 was much better written and I never really noticed little plot holes like this. Once you accept the B5 universe, things play out in a very believable fashion.

Still, that's just a minor complaint and the rest of the show more than makes up for it. I picked up season 3 last week and have just been staring at it sitting there on the shelf. The two part finale last night was excellent. My only complaint with it is

I like the fact that I don't have to wait the entire summer to see the fallout from last night's episodes. On the other hand, I know too much already to get the full impact. Just knowing

As for my season two comments overall,

My only problem now is looking forward to season 4. My wife is loving Buffy (she turned me onto it actually), but she really doesn't grasp the fact that we should pick up Angel season 1. She keeps saying that we really don't need to get hooked on another show. And that she's concerned that she won't enjoy Angel. I've tried telling her about the crossover episodes I've heard about, but I don't think she's getting it. So I just need to convince her that we should pick it up before we get to season 4.

I'd highly recommend Buffy to anyone who hasn't seen it yet. It's the only TV show on DVD I own besides Babylon 5, so that really says something.

Season 3-7:

On BTVS, the sewers have to connect everywhere with easy access in order for Angel to travel during the day.

Speaking of suspending disbelief, what really gets me is

The supposed reason Josh is that the people have lived there all their lifes, and therefore think it is normal. TV isn't going to tell them any different now is it ;) Also, remember, a lot of stuff was covered up by Sunnydale's goverment (remember School Hard.)

Angel Season 1 at the same time as Buffy Season 4 is a must! Yes, you can enjoy Buffy 4 without Angel 1, but it's not nearly as fun. I bought both at the same time, and watched them back and forth (First episode of Buffy, then Angel, Buffy, Angel and so on, as they were originaly aired) that way the crossovers work very well. Plus if you like Cordelia Angel is a must. Overall I liked Buffy better, but Angel has some great episodes, and the crossovers are a treat.

and to BizRodian... I was talking about the W---- thing more than the other thing. (how do you do that black out thingy to hide the spoilers??)

I've also noticed everyone's seeming ignorance of what's going on around them. I accept that one a little easier than some of the other things I've noticed, but it's still a good point. At least they covered it in the Pilot where Buffy explains that people tend to ignore that which they can't understand.

As for the sewers having to connect everywhere, I just don't buy it. Unless a vampire was in on the city planning and decided there needed to be convienent sewer access to public places, it just doesn't make sense. "What's that smell?" "Oh, it's just the open sewer downstairs." Sorry, that's just too much for me to accept.

Here's some other examples of a few things that bugged me. This is just from memory, but I just wanted to point out that it's more than just a single episode.



Buffy's still a great show, I was just commenting that there's some things that really stretches your belief. Perhaps I'm biased, but after seeing Babylon 5 about 10 times, I just can't think of many examples of such lazy writing. Although there is Grey 17 is Missing. :) Everything (on B5) just seems to make sense without relying on convenient plot devices like I mentioned before. But since most TV is like that, I'm OK with it. In fact, I'm enjoying the h*** out of it, annoying plot devices or not. :) So I don't mean it as a complaint against Buffy, but more as a compliment for B5.

Philip, I know that character is on the cover of the season 3 DVDs. What I meant by my comment was that if I had watched these when they first aired on TV, that's something I wouldn't have known. And I probably would have enjoyed the surprise much more. Although I also noticed he was listed in the opening credits in season 3, so I guess it wouldn't have been a surprise for long. But because of the reasons I listed above, specifically I've known from the beginning that he was going to be around for a while. That's knowledge I wish I didn't have. It would make the show that much more fun. I guess that's the downside of catching a show on DVD rather than the original airings. Glad I caught B5 from day one on PTEN. :)

turborobb, to do the spoilers, put your text in [ spoiler ] your spoilers go here [ /spoiler ] tags (remove the spaces from the spoiler tags or they won't work).

Well, now that you mention it,

And as far as Angel getting his own show, the brilliant minds at Fox issued a press release announcing the spinoff BEFORE "Becoming Part 2" aired. So the character's return from Hell was pretty much spoiled for everyone no matter when you started watching Buffy.

I refuse to read your spoiler. :) So perhaps I'm going to be pleasently surprised that it's not as lame as I first thought.

Ouch! So I guess it wouldn't have been the surprise I thought it would be. Still, it would be harder to accidentally run across spoilers for upcoming episodes. The point it, I wish I had seen it when it first aired. I've learned way too much already about what lies ahead. Even before I stared watching the show, I knew that a certain character was going to switch teams, sexually speaking. It's things like that that bother me (knowing what's coming, not the direction that character is going to take).

The running joke in the series is that everyone in Sunnydale has a very strong sense of denial.

Doughboy put his response in a spoiler, but I don't think it is much of a spoiler or that you couldn't have pieced this together from info in the first season, so I'm just going to tell you. You already know that Sunnydale is on top of a Hellmouth. The city was designed by people who had nefarious plans in mind.

Now, when Angel moves to Los Angeles and still gets around mostly by sewer, that's a little harder to swallow.

Clearly, you are not married!

And comparing Buffy to Babylon 5 is a futile exercise. They have nothing in common other than strong "cultish" fan-bases. They are just completely different shows.

I see. Then I guess I'll take back that comment. It just seemed weird that the sewer was so accessable from the school. Had it been a solid trap door, I probably wouldn't have thought twice about it, but the metal grate did seem a little odd.

Oh, I'm married and agree that I worded it badly. My wife is clearly out of her mind most days. But she typically doesn't develop an instant fatal obsessions with 17 year old boys. :)

Clearly very different shows. I was just trying to say that I find the writing to be tighter and cleaner on B5. Perhaps that's still not entirely fair since B5 is a completly different style of show. But while you can't compare the shows, you can compare (to some degree) the quality of writing. Plus it just seems that when I see one show brought up, it usually only take a couple days at most before the other is brought up. I don't know why, but I'd guess both shows have a large number of fans in common. At any rate, I couldn't be happier with Buffy. I just have to cringe from time to time when something silly happens. Still, the pluses far outweigh the negatives.

I'm looking forward to season 3 now. And hoping to pick up Angel soon so I can be ready when I get season 4 of Buffy.

At least until Season 7 when everyone conveniently skips town overnight. One of many complaints I have about Buffy's final(and worst) year.

And before any of you flame me, that's NOT a spoiler!

Its mentioned quite often that weird stuff happens in Sunnydale, but people just don't deal with it, but they do know about it. It's even acknowledged when

The show is, of course, partially a parody of dumb horror movies that are usually riddled with illogical contrivances that serve no purpose other than to be convenient for the plot.

You just have to accept that the Buffyverse is not the "real world". Some things work differently there.

How old is Heath Ledger? I have to wipe the drool off my wife's chin whenever she sees him on television. Were she to see him on the street in real life, the behavior of the women in that episode wouldn't be unexpected.

They are different styles of show. Buffy is much looser. Although there are clear story arcs, the entire run of the series was never planned out to work towards one goal like B5 was.

It's like comparing Austin Powers to Schindler's List. If your only criteria is tightness of writing, Schindler's List comes across as a much better movie. Is that a fair comparison? They are working towards different goals, and are both great in their own ways.

Besides, wait until you get to Buffy's third season and then we'll have this conversation again.

That's horrible. They announced the spinoff over 16 months before it aired? Hehe, and I thought it really sucked when they announced

As far as knowing some of the things that happen in the future because you caught onto the show late, I can sympathize, but I didn't think it was too bad. I started watching Buffy at the beginning of season 5 when there were no dvds or reruns on tv. The only problem I really remember having while watching the old episodes is that the people on the internet got my expectations really high for season 2 and 3. IMO, both seasons paled in comparison to season 5. It sucks that I saw the best season first. Oh well, at least season 4 wasn't as bad as I had heard.

I am currently alternating Bufy Season 4 and Angel Season 1 episodes right now. I used to think Angel was the overall better show as well, but that was before I saw Buffy Season 2. I didn't start watching Buffy on tv until Season 3. I had seen some Season 1 and 2 reruns, but never really knew what was going on really except the basic storyline friends had told me about. I recently bought all the Buffy dvds and now think Season 2 is by far the best Season of Buffy, and now can't really decide which show is better.

I think Angel is also a great show, it just takes a bit of time to hit full stride just like Buffy did. Once Angel abandons the "monster of the week" structure and becomes essentially one serialized story, I liked it much more than the Buffy that was playing at the time. Angel Seasons 3 and 4 made Buffy Seasons 6 and 7 only look weaker.

So my advice to those of you just starting with Angel for the first time, give it a chance.....Season 1 is rather weak. The cross-over episodes are essential, and it does have some great episodes of its own, but it becomes so much better. Season 4 was just amazing.....and I don't think they will be able to top it. I have a feeling that with Season 5, and the new developments


BTW, does anyone know if there were any crossover episodes with Buffy Season 5 and Angel Season 2?? I can't remember. Since Angel Season 2 is coming out in about 3 weeks and Buffy Season 5 is a few months of yet, I am trying to decide if I should wait with watching Angel Season 2.

I don't remember any crossover eps with Buffy Season 6 and Angel Season 3 at all. I think the network change for Buffy squashed that. Do I remember correctly? (I think Angel was on Mondays this season and Buffy was on Tuesdays).

There were a few towards the end of Buffy Season 7 and Angel Season 4. (Buffy was on Tuesdays and Angel was on Wednesdays).

Let's see, from memory (I haven't actually SEEN any of these seasons, BTW.)

There really aren't many crossovers between BTVS S5 and ATS S2. The closest would be the BTVS ep. "Fool for Love" and the ATS ep. "Darla." But it isn't a direct crossover.

And in BTVS S2, Angel shows up for one episode, but I don't think it crosses over into the ATS storyline.

And in the final ATS ep. of S2, there is mention of a big spoiler for the final ep. BTVS S5.

No crossovers at all between ATS S3 and BTVS S6. I think that since BTVS moved over to UPN, that they did away with direct crossovers.

But there is a bit of crossover between BTVS S7 and ATS S4. And it's not a straight-up B1-A1-B2-A2-B3-A3... type of order the other crossovers had, either.

BTVS S7 and ATS S4 goes something like this:

BTVS S7.17 "Lies My Parents Told Me" leads into ATS S4.15 "Orpheus," which then leads into BTVS S7.18 "Dirty Girls." There is some very definite character crossover.

And the ATS S4.22 finale, "Home," leads into BTVS S7.21, "End of Days."

yeah, thanks for the confirmation.

for anyone just seeing these shows on dvd for the first time, if you were interested in watching the last season of Buffy and Angel Season 4 together, it would probably be best to just look at the airdates in the insert booklets. There were some cross-overs, but the shows were not in sync with episode #s like Buffy4 and Angel1.

Yeah, "Orpheus" actually aired on the WB BEFORE "Lies My Parents Told Me" on UPN. You'd think if the two networks finally settled their differences and allowed crossovers, they'd at least try to show them in the correct order.

Seasons 1-2-3 then 7, I think the show nailed 4 must see seasons out of 7, seasons 4-6 lacked the brilliance of the whole team I say, it was like a different show when Angel, Spike and Dru, Buffy doing her thing, you had everything, but seasons 4-6 are must see, but for me seasons 1-2-3 are great tv, brilliant. As a Angel fan as well, first three seasons required viewing.

okay, so I've had a bit more time to sit down and watch a few more episodes. Namely, the whole 4-5 episode stretch that ends with 'Passion'. Great stuff, especially the "Surprise"/"Innocence" duo.

For those deciding whether to stick thru some of the hokier stuff in Season one, do. It gets loads better.

I love this post djbrown please keep up dated with your impressions as you get deeper into the show. Wait till you get into the later seasons you will LOVE this show. You might want to buy the it on DVD someday.

Really enjoyed the last part of Season 2, with the exception of Go Fish. It just seemed out of place in the midst of a sequence of 7-8 really strong shows.

Just starting season 3, and it's a bit slow to ramp back up to the end of season 2, but that's understandable. Though the introduction of seems to have brought things back to life.

I've often wondered if SMG is doing all of her fight scenes and the like. Was this ever discussed on the DVDs or anything?

No, she's not. There are stunt doubles. Actually, lets not get into the whole drama of the stunt double thing.