Draven

Yes. Referred to in other episodes, shown in "Selfless."

Patman

In "Selfless", I believe, she was married to Kubiak (Parker Lewis Can't Lose, Jerry on ER).

B5Erik

And it has now been almost 20 years since this aired.

I only came back to this thread to see what was said at the time as I just finished another run through of BTVS, and found that I liked the final season more now than I did then. And I really enjoyed the final episode. Could it have been better? Sure. But we've all seen far worse series finales. This one was really good, I would have given it an A- then, and I still do now.

But - 20 YEARS! Good grief! Where did all the time go? (Where did all the board members go?? ) Honestly, I can't believe that in 3 weeks it will have been a full 20 years since this episode aired. How the hell did that happen? I was so young then! And now I'm... Not so young. What the hell??

We all know what happened with Nathan Fillion. He became a space cowboy ("There are no cows in space.") before becoming a bestselling author, only to become the oldest Rookie in LAPD history.

What didn't happen was what a lot of us hoped at the time - follow up theatrical BTVS movies. Could have been cool, but it wasn't to be (nor was the proposed Ripper series, which also could habe been cool). So much potential for so much more, and all we got was one final season of Angel. Bummer.

But, yeah, I really enjoyed the final season of Buffy, and the final episode still makes me a little sad. I went through serious withdrawls after Angel ended (after going through mild withdrawls after Buffy ended - we still had Angel at that point, so it wasn't so bad).

Honestly? I really miss those days. So much good stuff on TV in the 90's and 2000's, so many shows I and a lot of others really grew attached to. That hasn't been the case for quite a while. Although I am enjoying The Boys quite a bit...

I guess it's just the whole 20 years thing that's freaking me out a bit. I feel like Jeremy Piven - "20 YEARS!" (And he was only freaking out about 10...)

Count Dooku

I did a Buffy series rewatch this year on Hulu. Why open those DVDs? As much as I loved the show 20-25 years ago, I was very pleasantly surprised at how well it still stood up, even though it was just "a stupid show for teenagers." I still think Season 3 is the best.

I started rewatch of Angel and am in Season 2.

B5Erik

Both Buffy and Angel have held up remarkably well. Good writing with good characters and good stories almost always holds up. It also helps when they get the casting right, and on both of those shows they really did.

And, yeah, Season 3 is the best. Season 2 was close, but they really nailed it with Season 3. I was pleasantly surprised, though, with how well the series as a whole held up. Even Seasons 6 and 7, which a lot of us here complained about (nit picked) endlessly back when they first aired. Honestly, I think those seasons play better now than they did then.

dvd-4-life

I just wish that this series come to blu ray.

Dr. DVD

20 years, geez. I remember watching this live on a TV with crappy reception, but made it a point to watch. Yes, season 3 is master class writing.

Dr. DVD

P.S. going back to Anya's death, I think it had more to do with Whedon having had something going on behind the scenes with her, given the stuff that's come out about him in the past 20 years. Interesting how since this show ended he went into a small bit of obscurity, helped create one of the most lucrative franchises in the history of cinema, then basically turn into persona non grata.

Xander

I just watched all of Buffy and Angel with my son last year. So much of it still holds up well. S3 Buffy is definitely my favorite. I was surprised at how much more I enjoyed S7 Buffy and S5 Angel. I still hated all the stuff with Connor and Jasmine, though

Count Dooku

Are you saying that Whedon wanted to punish Caulfield because of some backstage shenanigans, so he killed her character. That doesn't make any sense. It was the last episode of the series. Emma Caulfield was done with Anya whether the character survived or not. They just wanted to have a long time character die to evoke some emotion about the battle having real stakes, and they used some misdirection by pairing Anya and Andrew, and then killing Anya instead of Andrew.

B5Erik

Yeah, Emma Caulfield told Whedon before Season 7 that she wanted off the show after the season was over. Neither of them knew for sure if the show would get an 8th Season, but she let him know, just in case, that she wanted off. So he killed Anya - it was a way to kill off a regular in the finale.

Charisma Carpenter got punished for getting pregnant. She spent her last 3 episodes as a series regular lying on her back, Cordelia in a coma. Whedon was not kind to her even before that, but he really went on a vendetta to get her at the end.

Count Dooku

Emma Caulfield telling Whedon she would not continue after Season 7 would have no impact on the decision to kill her in the Season 7 finale because by the time the Season 7 finale was written and shot, everyone knew that it was also the Series finale. Whether Anya lived or died, Emma Caulfield was not coming back because it had already been decided that the show was not coming back.
Plus, what you are saying about Caulfield is completely different from what Dr DVD was implying about Caulfield wanting out because she Whedon mistreated her.


Yeah, he didn't like that Carpenter got pregnant because Cordelia being pregnant wasn't in his plans for the show. And he ended up dumping her off the show for that. But let's be honest, Whedon gave Carpenter her career hiring her in the first place and then by including Cordelia in the Angel spin-off. In his mind, she owed him everything, and he felt betrayed.

B5Erik

I read that Caulfield told Whedon before the season that she didn't want to come back for an 8th season if there was one. They didn't know at that point that there wouldn't be another season.

The plotting of the finale was done before they knew that there wouldn't be another season.

Count Dooku

Look, If Emma Caulfield told Whedon the seventh season would be her last, no matter what, then she told him that in the summer of 2002. The script for the finale was not written and filmed until the spring of 2003.

When they got to the season finale, they knew it was the series finale, so Emma Caulfield was done because the show was done. Whether Anya lived or died was 100% totally a narrative-based decision. They did not have to eliminate her character from the show for any outside reasons.

Even if Whedon thought in the summer of 2002 that Anya would have to die because Caulfield wanted out, that reasoning became moot, and so the decision to move forward with her death was entirely to have a meaningful loss in the final fight.

Think about it this way. If plans for some kind of Dawn-based spin-off had come to fruition, and Caulfield came to Whedon in early 2003 and told him that she changed her mind and would continue with the character if he wanted it, would he have said, "Sorry, I already made up my mind to kill Anya." Or would he have just changed his plans to keep the character in play?

Obviously, from what happened to Carpenter, we know Whedon is capable of changing his plans.

Absolutely incorrect. They knew the show was done. Sarah Michelle Gellar wasn't coming back. They completely wiped out the premise of the series in the finale. It was over.

Josh-da-man

I thought Whedon killed off Anya in the finale because he wanted to bump off a major character, but not one of the core four (Buffy, Giles, Xander, and Willow). And, at that point, a Faith spin-off was still on the table so she was safe, and everyone would have cheered if Dawn got cleaved in half.

Superman07

Buffy’s back - kind of.

A pod cast written and performed by original members. Doesn’t appear to include SMG.

https://variety.com/2023/tv/news/buffy-the-vampire-slayer-cast-reunites-spike-series-1235722897/

Josh-da-man

Sounds like more MULTIVERSE crap that every franchise seems to be doing these days...

I'm just not down on all of these franchises coming back with multiverses; it's like Marvel made it into a buzzword a few years ago and now everyone is just using it as an excuse to do a bunch of lazy, half-assed reboots.

Superman07

I interpreted it as going back to The Wish universe, but maybe it is different.

Josh-da-man

TVLine went into a bit of detail about the plot...



Doesn't quite sound like the Wishverse, but you never know...

joe_b

I was still such a Whedonverse freak after Angel ended, I even talked my folks into naming our new dog Buffy. She was an amazing addition to the family... just passed away last month at the ripe old age of 18.

Dr. DVD

Y'know, going into threads like this and looking at old posts is really like time travel to me. I was so into this series and the Whedonverse when this aired. Amazing what time has done to him. I still have a fond memory of the show, but not to where I would post something this lengthy about it anymore, or any series.

Xander

I still love the Whedonverse, and choose to support all the non-piece-of-shit cast and crew that worked on those shows.

This has enough talent involved with it that I may check it out. Could be fun.

stvn1974

I had two rescue cats that I named Willow and Xander. Willow died a few years ago but lived to be fifteen years old. She was such a diva that I should have named her Cordelia. I still love Buffy, Angel, Firefly and Serenity but Whedon turning out to be such a piece of shit did put a damper on them a bit.

PhantomStranger

Sounds a little like the Faith and Spike spinoff Whedon was planning at one point with a few tweaks. Faith and Spike would roam the countryside babysitting all the new slayers made in season 7.

Dr. DVD

I would have watched that just to see those two interact.