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Enterprise 05/07/03

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Enterprise 05/07/03

Old 05-07-03, 11:01 PM
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Hmmm, there were alot of obvious inconsistancies. About the phase pistols, they worked much too long. I don't know if the scene w/ Malcom and Archer was supposed to be running concurrently with Tripp's stuff, but Tripp's weapons stopped working first. Archer still got a few more shots.

I liked the tie-in w/ First Contact. As soon as I read the synopsis for this episode, I knew that there would be some tie in.

As for Phlox, there's one of 2 explanations as I see it. One, as stated above, his race was more resistant, and he was able to fight it off.

The other is probably plain out wrong, but what if the Borg were technologically superior, but they still weren't quite at the level of technology as they were on TNG and Voyager. Maybe Phlox figured out how to counter the assimilation process, but as the Borg become more advanced they can defeat that process of treatment. Maybe it holds water, maybe it doesn't.

My biggest pet peve, is that if the Borg took over the transport, increased the weapons and warp drive, why wouldn't they have created shields for it also? I mean, they were using hull plating too. Kind of a big plot hole there.

Overall, I liked it alot. I wish we could see more of the Borg, but I know this is too far in the past to do something with them.
Old 05-07-03, 11:06 PM
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Originally posted by Chew
Weren't the Borg heading our way when Q pushed the Enterprise along anyway?

It has been stated that the producers were thinking ahead when the Federation and Romulan colonies were destroyed in "The Neutral Zone", the first season finale of TNG. They just couldn't afford to introduce their "insect-like" species at the time.
Old 05-08-03, 12:46 AM
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Time-travel inconsistencies...

So the Borg come to earth and go back in time...so they can be defeated by the Enterprise...so some can survive years later and send a signal...so the Borg will come to Earth...ow.
Old 05-08-03, 02:30 AM
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Originally posted by Zien
Time-travel inconsistencies...

So the Borg come to earth and go back in time...so they can be defeated by the Enterprise...so some can survive years later and send a signal...so the Borg will come to Earth...ow.
This basically means it was a pre-determined loop that always has and was supposed to occur.
Old 05-08-03, 07:31 AM
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Originally posted by mikehunt
not sure in the original TNG history, but after voyager they definitely were, as they had assimilated the Raven (the ship 7's parents took to study the borg) before the date that Q showed up
more borg trivia, guinan's people must have stayed quiet after the Enterprise B picked them up, as they were running form the borg yet picard and crew hadn't heard of them, of course then later we find out that 7's parents had heard of them
I'm still not sure whether I want to accept anything that happened in Voyager as canon.
Old 05-08-03, 08:20 AM
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That actually wasn't a bad episode.

The only problem is of course, now that these events are a part of Federation history, how come they are clueless about the Borg in the future? They know they have 200 years and considering Starfleet has an uninterrupted existence during this period, you would think Picard and company would know about them and Starfleet would be preparing for an inevitable invasion.
Old 05-08-03, 08:20 AM
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Originally posted by Deftones
The other is probably plain out wrong, but what if the Borg were technologically superior, but they still weren't quite at the level of technology as they were on TNG and Voyager. Maybe Phlox figured out how to counter the assimilation process, but as the Borg become more advanced they can defeat that process of treatment. Maybe it holds water, maybe it doesn't.
Well, the Borg that started the whole mess in the episode were from First Contact, which means they should have the same technology as the rest of the Borg from previous encounters. Granted, they might not have had access to the same materials, but that's stretching it a bit.
Old 05-08-03, 08:30 AM
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Originally posted byTK-421
I can't wait to hear Wizdar's rant if he has one..
Originally posted by Chew
Let's all pray to the Trek gods it's not overly harsh.
Well, I’m flattered that you guys are thinking of me. Although I’m pretty certain that flattery wasn’t intended.

I said I would try to keep an open mind. Not so much to prove anything: I really want to like this show.

This ep had me asking questions, both logical and contextual, from the very beginning. It started off with, “Have these guys never seen freezer burn?” and continued from there. I would just manage to get my throw-something-at-the-TV urge under control and BAM! They let go with another one. So here it is, at about the 20 minute commercial break. Counting the inconsistencies/lapses of logic, I’ve run out of fingers and toes and am going for my zipper, wondering if it’ll stop at 21, or if maybe I may have to squeeze out some of my little swimmers to continue the count…

And then Reed said something addressing number 8 or 9 (I can’t remember which, as I was honestly trying to forget): “heavily armed research team”?!?

And, can somebody explain how a ship can increase mass while in flight?

This would have been a very good ep if the writers had taken just a coupla minutes to think a few things through.

One thing that I did enjoy. Believe it or not, I liked Archer’s inability to come to terms with blasting the now-Borg. This is the first solid piece of character development (with the possible exception of Phlox) in two years. ‘Bout time. I can’t say I like it; I can’t say that it makes me give a damn about the character. But it’s a start.

This was a solid episode. Full of holes, but it still stands on its own.
Old 05-08-03, 08:35 AM
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I noticed they used the transporter last night. As I haven't been watching lately, I have to ask: is this the first time they used it? If so, why wasn't it a big deal? They acted like they transport all the time.

Last edited by Bandoman; 05-08-03 at 08:54 AM.
Old 05-08-03, 08:41 AM
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DAMMIT! I completely forgot!

[Kirk voice] They…used…the…freak-in…trans…PORTER!! [/voice]

Not once, but twice!

No, Bando. IIRC, this exactly doubles the number of times it’s been used. The last time was in Hoshi Hears A Who.


Edit: just did the math on the above. Oops.

Last edited by Wizdar; 05-08-03 at 08:44 AM.
Old 05-08-03, 08:43 AM
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Originally posted by Wizdar

And, can somebody explain how a ship can increase mass while in flight?
No, because I had the same questions.

I was also surprised at the effectiveness of their weapons. Archer, in at least one case, fired several rapid shots, when it was explicitly stated that it would take a few seconds to recharge.

If Archer can find a low key reference to the Borg from a Cochran speech, why can't Picard find documentation of what Archer (and Phlox!) did to counter-act the Borg?

I did find the episode interesting, however.
Old 05-08-03, 08:46 AM
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I agree the 1) 'heavily armed' was a bit funny. 2) the arctic wear was pitiful 3) their lack of caution was unbelievable, all around.

I knew were the Borg came from and didn't have a problem with that. I also understand that Picard didn't want to screw around with history so didn't leave a 'heads up' just in case. They were hoping their visit back in time would have as little impact to their future as possible.

I think the ship increased in mass by picking up stuff on the way and incorporating it into itself during the trip. As you could see the transport was progressively changing.

I also believe everything was happening at the same time so the Borg adaptation to the phaser came out funky in our eyes. I think the Doc was able to cure himself because of his species ability to take the treatment, nothing else.

Last edited by pagansoul; 05-08-03 at 08:52 AM.
Old 05-08-03, 08:54 AM
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Did you notice that the usual "borg" psyche-out transmission started midway through the usual schpiel? Instead of "We are the Borg. Resistance is futile. Your biological and technological uniqueness will be assimilated and added to our own. (or somesuch)," we merely got: "resistance is futile . . . blah, blah, blah."

The word "borg" was never uttered over the course of the entire episode. Is this TPTB's idea of a "work-around?" Does the episode not violate continuity because the nano-tech aliens were never properly identified?

Wouldn't Hoshi have heard the entire message on her comlink? Wouldn't Phlox have "understood" who and what he was?

And what of these magical Borg powers to stick one's hand in the plasma relay panel and magically transform the circuit boards to glowy green borg-bubble technology? Ooooh, spooky.

And what was the deal with the chunky boots all throughout the episode? It's like the whole crew and all the aliens went out and blew their paychecks at DSW.
Old 05-08-03, 08:54 AM
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Re the transporter: I don't think they've gotten it completely under control. If you'll notice, when they beam to the Borg ship, Archer kinda checks himself to make sure everything's there. It's really quick though.

Anyway, I didn't not like the episode though there were some plot holes. First, no freaking way those pistols worked as long as they did for Archer and Reed. The security people on the Enterprise got off two shots before the Borg adapted and the Archer/Reed combo got off like five or six. Not likely.

Somewhere along the way the writers are going to have to explain how all records of this event as well as Cochran's speech are mysteriously lost by the time Picard and Co. meet the Borg. That better be one hell of a computer virus.

The writers cleverly neglected to give us the name Borg anywhere in the episode. I thought the resistance if futile speech usually started with the phrase: we are Borg or something like that. Maybe the deep freeze got to them.

I'm even ready to believe that Phlox could cure himself of the nano technology but that was just a little too convenient. But I did like that Archer had some conflict about spacing his new friends. Between last week and this week I think Archer's due for a nervous breakdown.
Old 05-08-03, 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by Duran
Well, the Borg that started the whole mess in the episode were from First Contact, which means they should have the same technology as the rest of the Borg from previous encounters. Granted, they might not have had access to the same materials, but that's stretching it a bit.
Ah, good catch. I knew my explanation had a flaw in it.
Old 05-08-03, 08:58 AM
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Originally posted by lisadoris
Between last week and this week I think Archer's due for a nervous breakdown.
Given the Archer spoilers in the season finale, his breakdown may be assured for the summer
Old 05-08-03, 08:59 AM
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I can understand Cochran's speech being lost to time. Cochran never mentioned the Borg by name, and Archer explained that because Cochrane was drunk a lot and liked to make sh*t up, no one believed him. Further, Cochrance recanted the story later. The only reason Archer remembered it was because as a boy he was apparently obsessed with space travel and Cochrane's history.

I can't understand how there would be no record of the Enterprise's encounter with the Borg, even though they are not named. They know that they were sending a message to their homeworld, and that an invasion could come "some time in the 24th Century". Starfleet would have been waiting for the Borg by Picard's time, not surprised by them.

Last edited by Bandoman; 05-08-03 at 09:02 AM.
Old 05-08-03, 09:17 AM
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All this Borg history talk has me thinking about something.

Remember Back to the Future?

At the beginning of the movie, Marty lives with his family in a rather run-down looking house, his brother works at a fast food joint, his parents aren't real lovely-dovey.

He goes back in time, puts things back in place (to the best of his ability). But, no matter how hard he tried to get it perfect, his present still changed. Picard goes back in time, puts things back in place, etc

Remember in Part 2 where Doc draws on the board, showing timelines? At one point in the past, the timeline shot off in a different direction from the present we knew.

I know we all want everything to fit all nice and pretty, but whose to say the future is now going to completely fall the way Next Gen showed it? History has now been rewritten and the Federation might just very well be ready for the Borg in 200 years. Isn't that possible too?

In the process voiding out a lot of Next Gen, DS9, and Voyager, of course.

Just trying to show another possibility.

flame-pants on
Old 05-08-03, 09:19 AM
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Wow, Wizdar was rather tame.. what is the world coming to?

Anyway, one of the popular theories on the trekker boards is that Section 31 will do something with all this borg information. A convenient excuse, not to sure about plausibility.

Also, I believe the borg can survive without oxygen, so aren't those Tarkaelean borg still alive?
Old 05-08-03, 09:26 AM
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Damn, Chew, that's actually a sensible theory (not that I would expect anything less from you). Maybe if they were to re-do TNG now things would be somewhat different given the events of First Contact, and now Enterprise.
Old 05-08-03, 09:57 AM
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Originally posted by Bandoman
I noticed they used the transporter last night. As I haven't been watching lately, I have to ask: is this the first time they used it? If so, why wasn't it a big deal? They acted like they transport all the time.
Actually, when they beamed back, you could see Archer looking around himself to make sure he was all there.
Old 05-08-03, 09:58 AM
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Originally posted by Wizdar


And, can somebody explain how a ship can increase mass while in flight?

It's pretty simply the Borg creating new hardware. We saw that one Borg use his nanoprobes on Enterprise changing the look of the computer and quickly growing new mechanical component.
Old 05-08-03, 10:00 AM
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I did like the transporter controls.
Old 05-08-03, 10:00 AM
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Originally posted by Wizdar
DAMMIT! I completely forgot!

[Kirk voice] They…used…the…freak-in…trans…PORTER!! [/voice]

Not once, but twice!

No, Bando. IIRC, this exactly doubles the number of times it’s been used. The last time was in Hoshi Hears A Who.


Edit: just did the math on the above. Oops.
Technically, they've used it in around 5 or so episodes now:

The pilot to rescue Archer from the Suliban Helix.
In "Strange New World" where the guy was materialized with plants and crap imbedded in his body.
In "The Andorian Incident" to beam down an Away Team.
In "Vanishing Point" to beam up Hoshi and Trip.
And last night.
Old 05-08-03, 10:06 AM
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I thought this was a pretty cool show. I'm not a hard core trek person, I've never gotten into the science of it all.

That being said, the best thing about the Borg is that they are basically brain eating zombies. Look at them! Slowly and delibertly walking towards their victims, unstoppable by normal weapons, and then once they eat your brains you become one of them! Pretty simple time tested formula if you ask me. I dig it!


I have a general trek question:
They obviously can tell when they have intruders on the ship. They can use the transporter without the trasporter pad. Why didn't they transport the borg off of enterprise and into space or off of the borg transport and into space?

I'm kind of pissed they used the transporter. It would have been cool to see them take a shuttle pod and try to sneak onto the borg ship.

Oh yeah, I really liked Archer tackling the borg and ripping out one of his eye cords and then Malcom doing the ole flying tackle onto his back. Very cool to see a little physical violence back in Trek.

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