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-   -   Alias -- SEASON FINALE -- "Second Double: & "the Telling" -- 05.03.2003 (https://forum.dvdtalk.com/tv-talk/290092-alias-season-finale-second-double-telling-05-03-2003-a.html)

Patman 05-05-03 08:44 AM

Yeah, when I saw the scar, I thought to myself, "OMG, they gave the genes-whatchamacallit treatment (of Sydney's DNA) to Allison!" This would the exactly the sick twisted thing that Sloane would do if he couldn't make the real Sydney do what he needed her to do in lieu of the prophecy.

B.A. 05-05-03 08:44 AM

The cool thing about the ending, which I am liking more and more now that I think about it, is that it gives the writers a chance to come up w/ a million different scenarios for next season or the next several seasons. We could debate about where they can take the show over the entire summer and still be left w/ a few possibilities.

I forgot about Vaughn beating the Sark-man's head into the table a couple of times. I loved it.

Marshall and Weiss were funny. I wonder if Marshall will be married when they bring the show back? Good Possibility...

Last night, as I was mulling over the ep, I was thinking that Sydney will find out her father has been working w/ Sloane - whether he volunteered to or was forced to is a different story. Whoever brought that up - thanks for reminding me.

I wonder what Irina/Sark have been up to then...since it looked like Sloane beat them out of their little game of poker last night. Irina's escape was bad-ass - I figured she was going to bungee or possibly BASE jump off of the building.

Rypro 525 05-05-03 08:54 AM

Are the commercials always this bad? It was every 5 ****in minutes but the last seg of the episode (begining with Frencie "killing/injuring" Will) was around 20 min without commercials. (and god I hated that abc 50th anniversery logo)
Thankfully I taped it so I can try to see if there were any hints to the ending before hand.

lisadoris 05-05-03 09:01 AM


Originally posted by Static Cling
As far as the whole "How did Francie call Sloan?" thing goes, there are at least three times during which she could've hit some sort of "panic button" device or called someone really quickly and requested an extraction.
This is the part I'm still fuzzy on. First, just to nitpick, FakeFrancie couldn't have called Sark - he's in CIA custody and they have no reason to let him go. If we assume Sloan's people came and got FF and Sydney, why leave Will alive? The only reason I can come up with is because they figured the stab wound would kill him or maybe he was already "dead" when they arrived. The only time FF would have to make a phone call was after she stabbed Will. The time between her eating the icecream and tyring to lay the smackdown on Sydney wasn't enough time - Sydney barely had time to get to her gun.

Granted, we don't know that FF is even dead, Vaughn just said they knew she was the clone, didn't say anything about her being dead. The scene where Sark told her they couldn't reverse the process seemed like a trapdoor designed to keep the actress in the show just in case.

I'm still freaked out about the ending, that was just a mean thing to do - keep us hanging in speculation until September!

mverleg1 05-05-03 09:49 AM


Originally posted by SiberianLlama
Don't think anyone's brought this up yet, but it looked to me that even though she was trying to kill him, Fake Francie was really in love with Will, what with the whole kiss thing and crying as she stabbed him. That would certainly put a whole new dimension to any future possible meet-up between Will and Sark as it was obvious that Sark was in love with Fake Francie.
Sark even asked her if "she fancied him". I thought her answer to him seemed forced, and that she was indeed starting to fall in love with him.

The epsiode as a whole was pretty good, however, you can tell they filmed it before they knew they were being picked up for a 3rd season. They tied up A LOT of loose ends (they also created a bunch of new ones), but I think JJ had this written to be able to take it either way (season finale OR series finale).

tofu 05-05-03 09:49 AM

Excellent episode. The commercials weren't kidding about the ending.

The real cliffhanger for me was whether or not Marshall and the other analyst started dating :D

The ending really reminded me of some GI Joe episode where Shipwreck is captured by Cobra and they set up this elaborate set where they make him think that it's 20 years in the future and he's married and retired so that they can extract some password from him.

I also thought that it was an interesting touch that FakeFrancie was so emotional when she stabbed Will because I guess she really did love him.

NCMojo 05-05-03 09:58 AM

Wow.

Wow wow wow.

OK...

As many people have posted before, this opens up a myriad of possibilities. I mean, anything is possible now. Anything.

To paraphrase Jeremy Piven in Grosse Point Blank:

"Two years! Two years, man! TWO! YEARS!"

mverleg1 05-05-03 10:05 AM

I LOVED when Marshall was asking Jack to take his girlfriend on the mission with him.

Of other useful interest for speculation (or for nitpicking, who knows), Project Christmas. The list that Will brings up has 17 names on it, but he says there were 20 kids in the program. Sydney's name isn't on the list. Also, I has anyone else considered the possibility that Sark came from Project Christmas? His name wasn't on the list either.

Just a thought

csant 05-05-03 10:15 AM

I can't wait to see why Jack didn't also go to see Sydney along with Vaughn. I mean she has been gone for 2 years!!!!!

Overall great Ep. and i just can't wait for the start of the next season. My Sunday night will now suck.... heh

movieking 05-05-03 10:37 AM

I thought that it was odd that they sent Vaughn in. I mean since they thought that she was dead, wouldn't this seem like a setup to them (assuming that Sloane, Derevko, Sark, etc are still around)? And why send him in if he is not an agent anymore? Why not send her father (once again assuming he is alive, and still a good guy, depending on what Sloane had him do)? So many questions!

I think that it is pretty obvious that Fake Francie loved Will. Her response to Sark was forced. Perhaps they meet through Project Christmas?

movieking 05-05-03 10:41 AM

And as for Vaughn getting married, I would ordinarily think that two years is long enough to get over someone's death, meet someone new and get married, however, they never found her body! Therefore, I would imagine it would have been months Vaughn was looking for her that he thought that she was still alive. It would then take him months to admit to himself that she was dead, and months again to get over it. Putting it into this timeframe, his marriage does seem a bit quick. Maybe he married Fake Francie!

guywall 05-05-03 10:51 AM


Originally posted by Patman
Yeah, when I saw the scar, I thought to myself, "OMG, they gave the genes-whatchamacallit treatment (of Sydney's DNA) to Allison!" This would the exactly the sick twisted thing that Sloane would do if he couldn't make the real Sydney do what he needed her to do in lieu of the prophecy.
That way, "Sydney" would not have seen the mountain, thus be the one in the prophecy....
Interesting.

I did think for a minute that it was all a dream, which would have pissed me off.

For someone who was totally in love with Sydney, Vaughn having searched for her, given up on finding her, and dated and married soemone new in "almost two years" as Vaughn said it, is the most far-fetched thing for me. I'm willing to give JJ lots of flexibility and believability since this show is so well done (great dialogue, great action for network TV).

My wife says Vaughn married that old girlfriend of his, since the dating/getting-to-know-you timeline would be shrunk down...

JNielsen 05-05-03 10:53 AM


Originally posted by Booth
There has been little discussion about Sloane and Jack. Remember that Sloane seemed very confident that Jack would be working with him again in the near future. He probably read about it in the prophesy scrolls, the same way that he knew that Irina would betray him and he moved the Rambaldi artifacts.

Now if Jack would be working with Sloane "soon", I would assume that after two years, this would already be happening. Wouldn't it be interesting if now Syd finds that her father has been working with Sloane for the past 2 years.

I think all Sloane meant was that Jack would "help" him by letting him get his hands on the last Rambaldi piece (the Heart). If Jack didn't put in for the transfer of the piece, Sloane wouldn't have been able to abmush the trasport and get the final piece he needed. Sloane knew Jack would want the piece to be in a more secure place, meaning it would have to be moved.

mverleg1 05-05-03 10:55 AM

I agree with movieking. I think his marriage is a little quick with that time-frame. Something I had considered was that he was on a deep-cover mission to find out what happened to her and that part of his cover is to be married. By being asked to "come back", perhaps he was extracted from his mission.

Chopper 05-05-03 11:24 AM


Originally posted by RolloTomasi
Irina said the person spoken of in the prophecy was Sydney, not her. IIRC, Sydney can't be Prophecy Girl because Rambaldi said the PG would never look at some mountain, and Sydney did do that - Rambaldi has never been wrong up to this point.

Excerpted, Rambaldi's "Prophecy" reads: "The woman here depicted will possess unseen marks. Signs that she will be the one to bring forth my works, bind them with fury; a burning anger. Unless prevented, at vulgar cost, this woman will render the greatest power unto utter desolation. This woman, without pretense, will have had her effect, never having seen the beauty of my sky, behind Mount Subasio. Perhaps a single glance would have quelled her fire."

(taken from http://abc.abcnews.go.com/primetime/...unsolved2.html )

Did she have to see the mountain? Or the sky behind it? And what does "my sky" mean? Maybe she didn't eliminate herself...

alyxstarr 05-05-03 12:51 PM


Originally posted by mverleg1
The epsiode as a whole was pretty good, however, you can tell they filmed it before they knew they were being picked up for a 3rd season. They tied up A LOT of loose ends (they also created a bunch of new ones), but I think JJ had this written to be able to take it either way (season finale OR series finale).
Actually, I kind of doubt this. ABC announced its renewals pretty early, didn't it? And I, for one, would have been just a little PO'd if they had ended the series like this. How do you see this as having possibly been able to work as a series finale? (I'm not trying to be antagonistic; I'm genuinely curious.) It seems to me like there are even more loose ends created than tied up.

Kerry R 05-05-03 01:31 PM

Of course the Rambaldi device is a time machine. That would explain why all of the prophecies were right. Sloane could actually be Rambaldi. Maybe that is what Kung Fu told him to get him back on track.

As others have said, the possibilities are endless.

Rypro 525 05-05-03 01:57 PM

Maybe for somereason, the ring did not mean marriage. They never really did "say" that he was married or not, we just speculated that.

djbrown 05-05-03 02:23 PM


Originally posted by Rypro 525
Maybe for somereason, the ring did not mean marriage. They never really did "say" that he was married or not, we just speculated that.
That's true. Perhaps Marshall got Vaughn interested in LoTR, and this was Vaughn's way of expressing himself.

Or not.

burgeon 05-05-03 03:02 PM

Loved this ep., love this show!

First of all, I think that Vaughn probably freaked after Syd disappeared, beat himself up for a while for not "being there" to save her (as they always have been for each other), and quickly fell back into the arms of his ex-g/f (whose name eludes me...). She married him on the condidtion that he leave the CIA, which he did, because it was the only way he could get enough distance from both his desire to see justice brought to Direvko and Sloan and his memories of Syd.

Second, I think that there's one option nobody's mentioned. I think that the Rembaldi device may be some sort of "Fountain of Youth" with a patented Death-O-Matic reverse switch. Perhaps the device gives the person who controls it power over life and death. Perhaps Syd's presence is in some way necessary for the device to work.

Just suppose: Faux-Francie calls Sloan sometime between shanking Will and taking a bite from the forbidden pint. She plans on popping Syd, but instead they go all chop-sockey and Faux-Francie gets aerated (she lives or dies - whatever). Sloan's guys scoop up all of the bodies, and take them wherever the device is. To test the device, Sloan uses the device to bring Will back to life, who subsequently, in another stroke of "Will Luck", winds up in yet another crack house with a needle hanging out of his arm to again explain his absence, but otherwise unscathed, but for a scar. But remember in the church when all those people got flash-fried? The device can also be used to zap anyone in the world at any time. Whoever controls the device could have godlike powers for good or evil. (which is pretty much what has been alluded to all along).

The question I had at the end of the last show is if the device is some harbinger of Armegeddon, how did Circle-K ride out the storm and manage to keep a franchise open in Hong Kong (just look - it's there)? I mean, if Circle-K is still around, I think that we're to assume that whatever has happened in the last two years was hardly apocalyptic. What does make sense would be during this time, Sloan uses the device to extort money from individuals and nations from his secret underground lair with his pinky nail pressed firmly to the corner of his mouth. What does not make sense is how and why does Syd wind up in a chunky wool turtleneck in a dirty alley on the other side of the world.

I'm not sure I can wait until the new season without losing mind!!

kenage 05-05-03 03:04 PM

After reading the Prophecy posted by Chopper, I am almost certain the device is a time device of some sort. It would explain why he was correct with all of this predictions. Most assumed that the "great power" was a nation, but what if it pertains to time. Wouldn't "Time" be the most powerfull thing on the planet? Something you cannot change and continuously moves foreward.

TruGator 05-05-03 03:44 PM

If Sydney was in Hong Kong how did Vaughn get there so fast?

Rypro 525 05-05-03 03:49 PM


Originally posted by TruGator
If Sydney was in Hong Kong how did Vaughn get there so fast?
It was two years between the "murder" of frencie and her ending up in hong kong. We don't know how he got there though.

Static Cling 05-05-03 04:05 PM


Originally posted by lisadoris
This is the part I'm still fuzzy on. First, just to nitpick, FakeFrancie couldn't have called Sark - he's in CIA custody and they have no reason to let him go. If we assume Sloan's people came and got FF and Sydney, why leave Will alive? The only reason I can come up with is because they figured the stab wound would kill him or maybe he was already "dead" when they arrived. The only time FF would have to make a phone call was after she stabbed Will. The time between her eating the icecream and tyring to lay the smackdown on Sydney wasn't enough time - Sydney barely had time to get to her gun.
FF already knew she was in danger of being compromised. Maybe they had some sort of "panic button" device that she could just activate at a touch of a button, and that would signal Sloane's goons to come get her. It wouldn't have to be this complicated "call Sloane, explain situation, request extraction" thing.

And as far as her wounds not being insta-kill wounds, that's true, but they still looked pretty significant. FakeFrancie probably had matching pneumo/hemothoraces (in addition to plain ol' trauma to the lung tissue), significant blood loss, and more. They could always cook up some medical miracle, but I'm just saying that in real life, those were still some pretty significant wounds.

Re: Rambaldi prophecy. It talks about the one in the prophecy being the person to "bind" Rambaldi's works. Yet it sounds like that's what Sloane did last episode... put all of the Rambaldi artifacts together into "The Telling." I wonder if that's how Syndey fits in... even though Sloane put all that crap together, he still needs Sydney to... do something.

Jeremy517 05-05-03 04:20 PM


Originally posted by Rypro 525
It was two years between the "murder" of frencie and her ending up in hong kong. We don't know how he got there though.
We also don't know how long it was between the phone call and the time Vaughn showed up in the room. It definitely took Sidney some amount of time to get to the safe house. I also got the impression that she was in the safe house for some time longer before Vaughn showed up. It could have been long enough for Vaughn to take a flight.


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