Hey, I liked this one. It kind of laid out a few developing storylines (Buffy's decision about Spike's chip, Willow's acceptance of Tara's death, Giles=First Evil or not, and even dipped back for the return of Amy).

The episode was key for Willow to put Tara's death somehow behind her, and to move on with her own life.

And yes, the Initiative sequence was annoyingly dark, and I pretty much such sat back and figured all I was missing was another hokey fight with Buffy's stunt double and a guy in a mask.

Oh yeah, Kennedy =

Hey, I'd rather watch Buffy's stunt double fight than SMG. That's been a big problem this season. Too many closeups of her in fight scenes.

I liked the episode. I thought it dealt with some Willow issues that have been hanging around. It's nice to see a little residual Tara sadness. At first, I thought it was too quick for her to "get over it" but I thought they handled it really well. It was very interesting using Warren as that catalyst. I also enjoyed the switching back and forth between the two actors. Made it feel as disconcerting as I'm sure it felt for Willow.

The Buffy subplot was decent too, as I'm curious to see if she chooses to leave the chip in, since Spike is still a danger.

The Giles plot was kinda meh, because I can't believe he went this long without touching anything. Though I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and say that the gang just couldnt' remember a time. Tackling him was great though. I'm curious to see what actually happened to him in England, or if they will address it.

GIRLS KISSING!!!!!!!!!

I love the Kennedy character, and I enjoyed much of the episode, but I do agree that it was a bit forced, particularly the hokey "love conquers all" ending. Kennedy's line about magic being like fantasyland and then kissing her to turn her into a prince was handled in a very silly manner. I like the concept of Willow kissing Kennedy being like killing Tara (accepting her death and moving on), but the resolution didn't work for me.

Not sure what to think about the Giles thing yet.

das

I'd be dissapointed if the chip is removed (as opposed to repaired). Buffy (and everyone else who was around in season 2) knows that a vampire with a soul is still a vampire. If it was that "easy" to gain a soul, how easy would it be for the first evil to remove the soul (if the chip is removed), regaining "evil Spike"?

Of course, "evil Spike" is much more fun than "puppy dog Spike", so it would probably make for more entertaining television, but it wouldn't make sense from a character standpoint.

It didn't appear to be *that* evil to get a soul back for Spike. He had to kick some serious ass to get that soul.

so the excuse for the first evil being able to make him do things is that the chip was malfunctioning? i mean....he did kill lots of folks with that chip in there.....

It seems that way.

Seems to me that if the allowed Angel to walk around, capable of killing people but choosing not to (because of his soul) then they should do the same for Spike.

Interested to see how they handle this.

Unfortunately I have to go into the "I thought this episode was not-so-great" category.

As much as I love Buffy this episode just had too many lame plot lines. The sub-line with Amy was particualrly bad.

Also it seems in the past few episodes Zanders dialogue just doesn't flow anymore...his quips are out of place and forced and there seems to be no reation from the rest of the cast they way it used to be. I don't know if it's writing or if the cast is just getting tired.

IMO this has been one bad episode in an otherwise great season so far.

No resolution to the Giles thingie? How ‘bout, “We know he’s dead, but is he working for The First or is he something else?” being turned completely around? Isn’t this the type of thing that typical Joss sycophants absolutely over? Now we gotta figure out how he survived the ax, and you just know Joss is gonna blow us away with how he pulls that outta his butt, yes?

Not too sure about what to think about, what seems to be, some gay bashing around here. Granted, Willow got a lot more lip-to-lip time than [I think] we’ve seen before, but…

I agree that the whole thing seems to be forced. Will Willow’s new insight come in handy at some time in the future, or was this just filler?

Kill Spike. Kill him now!

Yeah, I have to agree that there's a lot more going on with Giles than what was shown in this episode.

Yet another Andrew reference I had no problem getting---League of Gentlemen.

Kinda sad actually.........

I think the tackling of Giles for comic relief ws not as effective because they didnt play it seriously. I mean, what if he had been the first, they would have all been destroyed. Seemed like lazy writing to me.

I always find it odd that fans like razorbackfan think it soooo cool to see too Woman kissing but most would go Blechhh if say, Xander and Andrew kissed.

As a hetero male I enjoy seeing two attractive women smooching.
Daddy like very much.

For all we know, Giles ducked just before the axe would have chopped off his head. Just another close call.

Men kissing? BLECHHHHH!

• Quoth cooper2000 •<HR SIZE=1>I always find it odd that fans like razorbackfan think it soooo cool to see too Woman kissing but most would go Blechhh if say, Xander and Andrew kissed. <HR SIZE=1>

Heterosexual men like women. The sight of a man kissing a woman is a +1 -1 relationship that cancels out. A woman kissing a woman is a +1 +1 relationship, and a man kissing a man is a -1 -1 relationship. We've had this discussion before, and I don't understand why it's odd or inappropriate.

Women think differently from men, so a man/woman kissing scene likely skews positive from their perspective (they like passion and lovey-dovey stuff). God gave me the gift of logic, and consequently I cannot predict a woman's (re)actions, so I don't know how they would react to woman/woman or man/man.

das

P.S. If it's not obvious, it should be noted that most heterosexual men are not interested in two ugly women kissing, only two hot women. It's as simple as magnifying the hot by a factor of 2.

yeah. what das said.

yeah. what das said.


I remember a scene from The Shield that left me with a -1-1-1-1...

Guess I won't be checking out THAT show...

Am I the only one who thought the "Who ya gonna call?" line was the best all season, maybe? God, I effing rolled at that.

oh... and, yeah, what Das said.

• Quoth jkingfish •<HR SIZE=1>Am I the only one who thought the "Who ya gonna call?" line was the best all season, maybe? God, I effing rolled at that.<HR SIZE=1>

Yeah, that was damn funny. Even at its worst, the humor of this show never ceases to amaze me.

das

Well, a woman I work with is a Buffy fan as well. She gets grossed out seeing two women kissing, and I don't think she cares much for seeing two men kiss either. She hated the whole Tara and Willow thing and she didn't like the kissing in last night's episode. On the other hand, I had a girlfriend who had no trouble with seeing woman/woman or man/man. The whole man/man thing grosses me out though. That's the only part of the Shield I haven't liked. Luckily it was only once or twice.

I always said it this way:

Two hot chicks kissing=everywhere I look, I see something I like.

But the man-on-man stuff from the Shield and Six Feet Under is fine. Nothing wrong with it, it's a reality for a lot of people, so it doesn't bother me.

Next season, following Angel on the WB:

Xander the Lesbian Watcher!

Buffy made some poor decisions in her teens, yes. And if Willow and Kennedy had an ongoing relationship, and Kennedy skipped out on the vision quest thingy to get some alone time before the possible end of the world, I wouldn't think it was creepy. Super irresponsible, given the circumstances, but an understandable thing.

It's the way she went about it that rubs me wrong. She came across as sort of predatorial. She decided they'd be going out, and wasn't interested in giving Willow an option to make a choice in the matter. Minor things like destiny or Willow's personal preference weren't about to get in the way of Kennedy looking for love. That's the part that creeped me out.

It was a major contrivance that nobody hugged Giles when he arrived. Even putting that aside, I find it very hard to believe Giles didn't touch a lot of things.

This meant he never ate in front of the Scoobies, or drank tea, or did research, or went into a closed room, or did anything but sit in a chair or lean against a wall and talk. It's too implausible to have been carried on for any length of time, and they chose to drag it out. It was stupid (Though not as stupid as if he had been the First--If he had, the "he touched stuff and they just didn't remember" fanwank wouldn't have worked), but it is thankfully over. The scene would have played much better if Anya, Xander, and Dawn realized the only reason they know the First is non-corporeal is that Giles told them, and since he might be the First, he might have lied. That would have been interesting to see, but it also couldn't have been wrapped up in one quick sub-subplot.