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Buffy 11-5-02

Old 11-07-02, 09:53 AM
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Originally posted by Dr. DVD
Also, did anyone else take the radio broadcast at the end as saying Anya has turned to a life of crime? They said it was part of a chain, not just that one night.
They were saying there were a chain of robberies, but I interpreted that as being a whole bunch all that night. Anya had gotten a lot done while Xander and Spike stopped everyone else from doing their thang.
Old 11-07-02, 10:05 AM
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I wish Emma and Sarah would hit the local Chinese Buffet and put on some weight. They are getting too skinny to be considered healthy IMO.
Old 11-07-02, 10:08 AM
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Originally posted by Dr. DVD
I wish Emma and Sarah would hit the local Chinese Buffet and put on some weight. They are getting too skinny to be considered healthy IMO.
I've had those same thoughts, but I actually thought SMG looked just plain incredible on Tuesday...
Old 11-07-02, 10:41 AM
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I'm a big Dawn fan, so I don't mind her getting more screen time. But I do think the episode started slow. The last 2/3's (starting at the Bronze) was much better. Overall, a solid comedy episode. I couldn't tell the storyline was recycled since I haven't gotten through the Season 2 DVD set yet.

My favorite line:

"Oh .. Oh . No. Daddy No, I wasn't. When I was looking I wasn't. (Averts eyes) Oh God. (Looks back)"

I do hope we get into a good story arc soon. Almost a third of Season 7 has aired.
Old 11-07-02, 01:58 PM
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Forgive me for not reading this entire thread since I'm heading out the door, but in the opening scene (before the credits), it looked like SMG had a nosejob. If I weren't headed out the door, I'd try to find out some more info to see if there had been reports of her having surgery.

It was only in the opening scene...in ever scene thereafter, her nose looked the same as before.

Old 11-07-02, 02:24 PM
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I think her new hair styles in the episode de-accentuated her nose bulb.
Old 11-07-02, 10:35 PM
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Originally posted by grunter
Exactly!

One minute folks on the Buffy-talks want to lighten up all the heavy soul-searching, early 20's malaise that was (the brilliant) last season. And the next those same folks will bitch and moan when the Buffy-crew pop out a pure slapstick comedy episode. Sometimes you wonder whether these folks are ever happy with anything.
I was thinking something similar about this whinefest-- first people are complaining that Buffy is too serial now without stand-alone episodes like in early seasons, and now they bitch and moan when we get a stand-alone episode because it "doesn't move the arc forward". It makes me think about the story of the old man, his son, and the donkey.

I think that some people will NOT ever be happy with anything, and I hope the Buffy writers never give their whines even a FIRST notice.
Old 11-07-02, 11:01 PM
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^^Well, that wasn't the reason I didn't care for the ep. I don't even know if you can generalize that it's the same people altering their complaints.

I guess the writers should just pay attention to accolades then...
Old 11-07-02, 11:14 PM
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Don't concern yourself with it too much. We had the same posts last season, twisting and generalizing people's comments and then insulting everyone who disagreed.

das
Old 11-08-02, 12:41 AM
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I dont care wether its an arc or a lighthearted episode or a really deep one, I just want my Buffy to be written good. This one wasnt.
Old 11-08-02, 06:40 AM
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Originally posted by cooper2000
I dont care wether its an arc or a lighthearted episode or a really deep one, I just want my Buffy to be written good. This one wasnt.
Old 11-08-02, 07:31 AM
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Well, I thought it was written just fine.

I don't want Buffy to deal with the "Arc" every episode. I personally think people just don't like Dawn (99% of the time I agree with that), so anything focusing on her gets put in a harsh light. Yes, they have done a few "love spell" stories, but Dawn is in high school, at Sunnydale High, so this stuff is bound to happen. Even though people don't like her, she's here to stay, so we are going to see Sunnydale High stories that DON'T revolve around the core group.

I guess I am just unclear on what they were supposed to do instead, or where the "writing was bad." How so? Plot holes? None that I noticed. Characters acting "out of character?" Hmm..no, nothing like that. Buffy decided to kill, Dawn decided to whine, Willow went straight to magic and Anya turned to crime Seemed perfectly in character to me.

I mean, I understand if you just didn't LIKE the episode, but I would totally disagree that it was poorly written.

I laughed out loud, I thought there were some good Buffy/Dawn moments, Spike and Xander were hilarious (and I don't CARE that they've been the Odd Couple before. I'm glad they are back at it again. And where the hell else would they put Spike? Buffy's house? Um, no.)

They only thing I was disappointed with is that they haven't flat out said the correlation between Angel and Angelus vs. Spike and William. That if they forgave Angel for Jenny Calender's murder, then Spike should be forgiven for the rape. They seem to be playing it up more like he is feeling remorse, and felt bad then too. I think they really need to address that he wasn't the same person then.

Other than that I enjoyed it thoroughly.
Old 11-08-02, 11:43 AM
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While watching the episode over again with my brother, we noticed that the jocks brother that was living with his mother was Elliot from "Just Shoot me". They had him done up so well that I never noticed the first time through.
Old 11-08-02, 11:45 AM
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Originally posted by Doug Heffernan
My favorite post of the week. Thanks Doug.
Old 11-08-02, 11:56 AM
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This was a just a throw away ep, imo. Some sight gags but that's about all for me. An awful lot of ppl seemed to be walking through their lines here. The train scene lacked continuity in editing and the whole jacket 'concept' was arbitrary. No repercussions for Buffy molesting a student in the school...we'll just forget this whole meddlesome jacket thing occured. So now Buffy considers Anya a friend? RJs acting was abysmal.

They spent more than enough time in the ep making Dawn more pathetic than anyone I have ever seen go through on that show because she had no one apparently, where did her two new friends disappear too?, her lying on the train tracks zaps the spell off of Buffy?, she rams that guy down the stairs and lies about it?

I somehow feel this episode exists to make us feel Dawn is now 'officially' in the group because she has been spelled upon, but I don't buy it after this. They did a much better job with her in Help when she was actually 'thinking' about what to do in the situation presented, not that they listened, but one day she'll be right on target with it, I felt. This is a set back. Now I just want to see her shoved into a locker when she goes back to school, lol.

I don't mind that it was a rehashing...sometimes it makes for great insightful banter...but not this time around.
Old 11-08-02, 02:01 PM
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Kinda off topic, but heres a fascinating read about Buffy and Christian theology. In the article theres also a funny tidbit of how SMG prepared for the role of Buffy!
oh yeah, forgot to mention theres spoilers up to the current season.

here it is http://thedoormagazine.com/archives/buffy.html
Old 11-08-02, 02:02 PM
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Originally posted by Darren Garrison
It makes me think about the story of the old man, his son, and the donkey.

Off topic, but I loved that story growing up! Really does tell you a lot about life and how you just can't win in some circumstances.
Old 11-08-02, 03:26 PM
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Its hard to put into words but being a fan of Buffy from the beginning, I just feel the stories arent that original anymore, not as compelling and the show tends to be, in most cases, a shadow of its former self. The dialouge isnt as clever or crisp as it used to be and no put intended but the cast and writers just seem to be "Going through the motions."

I want to be surprised and entertained like with the Anya Episode a few weeks ago(now that was a well thought out episode)It was throw back to the hey day that the show used to achieve and had a problem with especially last year. The show seems to be disjointed and doesnt flow as well anymore and its apparent Whedon doesnt have as much to do with the show anymore.

When the show starts being ill conceived and an eye roller like this episode was, I feel it's time to quit.

This episode might be good in terms of any normal series but this isnt just any Normal series and I expect more from it then it gave me last week or with the Suicide episode. It just seems like the heart and soul that made this show special is not much any longer.

Does everyone here think this season and last are as strong as the first few seasons of Buffy? Thats what I am judging it against.
Old 11-08-02, 06:22 PM
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Coop. I do agree with you that the last couple of seasons have fallen short of the first few seasons. But even though that has happened I still enjoy the stories every week anyway. If you have become bored with it then move on. But I want more. When I think the stories have become bland to me I will indeed quit watching.
Old 11-08-02, 10:36 PM
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Originally posted by das Monkey
Don't concern yourself with it too much. We had the same posts last season, twisting and generalizing people's comments and then insulting everyone who disagreed.

das
Pot. Kettle. Black.
Old 11-08-02, 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by Darren Garrison
Pot. Kettle. Black.
Best. Post. Ever.
Old 11-08-02, 11:37 PM
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Originally posted by Meatpants
Pics?
http://www.angelfire.com/d20/darren_garrison/dawn.html
Old 11-08-02, 11:41 PM
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Aww ... how sweet.

Anyway, cooper2000, I agree with your comment about it being disjointed. I feel essentially the same way I did last season. There's some intangible that is missing. I can only guess that it's Joss' involvement, but whatever it is, there's a small piece to the puzzle that's keeping it from being complete. Dialogue just isn't as crisp, and the plot doesn't flow as well. I too don't care if the episode is arc or throwaway, dark or comedic, just so long as the presentation is strong.

As I've said before, last season felt like Joss told everyone what it should be and then trusted them to make it so. They had the content, all the pieces, but it just wasn't as polished, and when he showed up to do an episode, the quality jumped in orders of magnitude.

Great television isn't an easy thing to achieve. You can have many amazingly talented people all working on a project and still not have the right intangible that makes everything work. For whatever reason, I've felt for the last two years that things just don't mesh very well.

Buffy's not a good show; it's a great show. And it has set the bar very high for itself. When it falls short, those who have been entranced by the story for the last 6+ years can't help but notice. If it were another show, I'd probably be more forgiving. However, if it were another show, I wouldn't keep watching. Buffy's still entertaining, just not as much as before. I haven't missed an ep in 6 years, and I have no plans to do so now. I wasn't too thrilled with the amateurish way they handled some characters last season, but it was all worth it for the 4 or 5 great episodes. I just hope they can go out with a bang.

In any case, that's the way I feel. Many others feel the same way. I'd submit we're entitled to have that opinion even if others disagree and resort to senseless name-calling.

das

Last edited by das Monkey; 11-08-02 at 11:44 PM.
Old 11-09-02, 01:16 AM
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Well said das.

To the poster that said to just move on, Its not as easy as that. I love Buffy but like das said the bar has been set high and when it falls short you notice it. I have no plans of giving up on the show but that doesnt mean I can voice my complaints when I dont like it either.
Old 11-09-02, 01:32 AM
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Agreed.

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