VCR Help
10-20-02 | 09:54 PM
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VCR Help
Not sure if this was right place to post this. I thought it was semi t.v. related.
I am a heavy duty vcr user and my vcrs keep breaking down on me. I tape almost everything I want to watch and view it later. I had a Magnavox which worked great for a year before it broke down, and a Samsung I bought in June doesn't seem to record properly anymore as the frame seems to skip. Both vcrs were cheap, each was around $60. Does any one have any brand and/or model recommendations? I want to spend a little more this time and get something that lasts a little longer. I can't get a TIVO because they aren't available in Canada. Any good review sites?
I am a heavy duty vcr user and my vcrs keep breaking down on me. I tape almost everything I want to watch and view it later. I had a Magnavox which worked great for a year before it broke down, and a Samsung I bought in June doesn't seem to record properly anymore as the frame seems to skip. Both vcrs were cheap, each was around $60. Does any one have any brand and/or model recommendations? I want to spend a little more this time and get something that lasts a little longer. I can't get a TIVO because they aren't available in Canada. Any good review sites?
10-20-02 | 10:00 PM
#2
If you time delay that much stuff, I would try for any digital solution. Since TiVo is out, is there another stand-alone PVR you could get? If not, I'd go with a TV card into a computer or something. No matter what you do, VCRs are going to break if you use them a lot, so if you continue with the VCR path, I'd just expect to keep buying and replacing.
If it helps, I have had success with Sony VCRs. Before TiVo, I used to tape-delay a LOT; and before DVD, I used to archive to VHS a LOT. Both have decreased significantly in the last year due to better methods, but when I did rely heavily on the VCR, Sony always treated me right.
das
If it helps, I have had success with Sony VCRs. Before TiVo, I used to tape-delay a LOT; and before DVD, I used to archive to VHS a LOT. Both have decreased significantly in the last year due to better methods, but when I did rely heavily on the VCR, Sony always treated me right.
das
10-20-02 | 10:02 PM
#3
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I've always had Sony VCRs and they've lasted at least a few years before needing replacement.
Two things I would suggest you do, no matter what brand of VCR you get:
1. Make sure to clean the heads using a tape head cleaner...according to the instructions on the head cleaner, I think they say to clean your VCR every 30 hours of use.
2. Buy a separate rewinder so rewinding your tape all the way to the beginning doesn't cause further wear and tear on your VCR. Rewinders aren't practical to use in every situation, but I always use mine to get to the beginning of the tape.
Two things I would suggest you do, no matter what brand of VCR you get:
1. Make sure to clean the heads using a tape head cleaner...according to the instructions on the head cleaner, I think they say to clean your VCR every 30 hours of use.
2. Buy a separate rewinder so rewinding your tape all the way to the beginning doesn't cause further wear and tear on your VCR. Rewinders aren't practical to use in every situation, but I always use mine to get to the beginning of the tape.
10-20-02 | 10:11 PM
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Originally posted by das Monkey
If you time delay that much stuff, I would try for any digital solution. Since TiVo is out, is there another stand-alone PVR you could get? If not, I'd go with a TV card into a computer or something. No matter what you do, VCRs are going to break if you use them a lot, so if you continue with the VCR path, I'd just expect to keep buying and replacing.
If you time delay that much stuff, I would try for any digital solution. Since TiVo is out, is there another stand-alone PVR you could get? If not, I'd go with a TV card into a computer or something. No matter what you do, VCRs are going to break if you use them a lot, so if you continue with the VCR path, I'd just expect to keep buying and replacing.
The only way to get a PVR in Canada is to sign up for service under bell express vu, which is like directv in the states. This isn't a option because I live in apartment.
I never thought about a t.v. card for my computer. I guess it is something I should think about.
10-20-02 | 10:15 PM
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Originally posted by immortal_zeus
I've always had Sony VCRs and they've lasted at least a few years before needing replacement.
Two things I would suggest you do, no matter what brand of VCR you get:
1. Make sure to clean the heads using a tape head cleaner...according to the instructions on the head cleaner, I think they say to clean your VCR every 30 hours of use.
2. Buy a separate rewinder so rewinding your tape all the way to the beginning doesn't cause further wear and tear on your VCR. Rewinders aren't practical to use in every situation, but I always use mine to get to the beginning of the tape.
I've always had Sony VCRs and they've lasted at least a few years before needing replacement.
Two things I would suggest you do, no matter what brand of VCR you get:
1. Make sure to clean the heads using a tape head cleaner...according to the instructions on the head cleaner, I think they say to clean your VCR every 30 hours of use.
2. Buy a separate rewinder so rewinding your tape all the way to the beginning doesn't cause further wear and tear on your VCR. Rewinders aren't practical to use in every situation, but I always use mine to get to the beginning of the tape.
I bought a seperate rewinder last month. I am using it as you described.
Do you think the frame skipping could be from lack of head cleaning?
10-20-02 | 10:26 PM
#8
• Quoth ten41 •<HR SIZE=1>I never thought about a t.v. card for my computer. I guess it is something I should think about. <HR SIZE=1>
Depending on your viewing habits, it's worth looking into. For me, it would be a hassle; for you, it may be exactly what you want. Here's what I'd ask myself if I were you:
What's the average lifetime of your VCRs?
How long before a PVR solution is feasible?
It sounds like 1 VCR lasted a year, and another died at about 4-5 months? To be safe, we'll assume a one year lifetime on a $100 VCR purchase? I know that's a broad sweeping guestimate, but we have to start somewhere. If a PVR solution is on the horizon, I'd keep dropping money on a VCR or two until that time. If you're 2 or 3 years away from a PVR or just never anticipate getting one, I'd budget for a more premanent digital solution.
Even PVRs are temporary though. Technology changes. A digital solution would be less prone to "breaking" but more prone to being "out-dated." Depending on your needs and future plans, it could make sense to just keep buying VCRs and replacing them every 6 months - 1 year.
In any case, I believe in the VCR game a cheap Sony will last longer than a cheap Samsung.
das
10-21-02 | 12:24 AM
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From: wishing I was in Vegas
It might be helpful to understand what you mean by “frame skipping.” Frames don’t skip in normal viewing. Could it maybe that you’re wearing holes in your tapes?
The rewinder is an OK idea, but it’s overrated (unless it looks cool!). If you do a lot of “search” stuff, like fast forwarding commercials, this is where the worst wear is on both tape and machine.
Tape head cleaners are also overrated. But they make the users feel good, so they have a purpose. The best tape head cleaner is tossing a tape at the first sign of damage. If you can see a dropout, you’re making flakes.
If you pay more money, it doesn’t mean you’re going to get a machine that lasts longer. It just means you’re gonna feel worse about it when it’s time to toss it.
My best advice is never remove a tape unless it’s at one end or the other. And if a tape is damaged, it’s landfill.
The rewinder is an OK idea, but it’s overrated (unless it looks cool!). If you do a lot of “search” stuff, like fast forwarding commercials, this is where the worst wear is on both tape and machine.
Tape head cleaners are also overrated. But they make the users feel good, so they have a purpose. The best tape head cleaner is tossing a tape at the first sign of damage. If you can see a dropout, you’re making flakes.
If you pay more money, it doesn’t mean you’re going to get a machine that lasts longer. It just means you’re gonna feel worse about it when it’s time to toss it.
My best advice is never remove a tape unless it’s at one end or the other. And if a tape is damaged, it’s landfill.
10-21-02 | 01:08 AM
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Originally posted by Wizdar
It might be helpful to understand what you mean by “frame skipping.” Frames don’t skip in normal viewing. Could it maybe that you’re wearing holes in your tapes?
It might be helpful to understand what you mean by “frame skipping.” Frames don’t skip in normal viewing. Could it maybe that you’re wearing holes in your tapes?
I tried both new and old tapes. It doesn't seem to make a difference.
Maybe frame skipping was the wrong choice of words. It's more like the whole pciture shakes for a split second. This is ok once in a while but sometimes (and more and more often) the picture will shake 10 times in 30 seconds.
My best advice is never remove a tape unless it’s at one end or the other. And if a tape is damaged, it’s landfill.
You use a tape over and over again? Doesn't that cause more wear on the tape as you search for a place to tape the next program and then later want to watch something at the start. Doesn't that cause more rewinding and forwarding?
If you do a lot of “search” stuff, like fast forwarding commercials, this is where the worst wear is on both tape and machine.
Is there any way to avoid this wear?
Last edited by ten41; 10-21-02 at 01:12 AM.
10-21-02 | 03:28 AM
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Originally posted by ten41
I tried both new and old tapes. It doesn't seem to make a difference.
Maybe frame skipping was the wrong choice of words. It's more like the whole pciture shakes for a split second. This is ok once in a while but sometimes (and more and more often) the picture will shake 10 times in 30 seconds.
I tried both new and old tapes. It doesn't seem to make a difference.
Maybe frame skipping was the wrong choice of words. It's more like the whole pciture shakes for a split second. This is ok once in a while but sometimes (and more and more often) the picture will shake 10 times in 30 seconds.
.....the vcr here started doing the same thing just this past week...however, recordings made prior, play fine....
Last edited by ici-la-ko; 10-23-02 at 12:51 AM.
10-21-02 | 06:55 AM
#12
Wouldn't hurt to clean the heads occasionally if you haven't.
The problem you are seeing is a "tracking" problem. Most (even cheap) VCRs adjust tracking automatically, although they don't seem to adjust over their full range. Most VCRs have a couple of buttons on remote for manual tracking adjustment. Look for them, fiddle with it and see if it helps. Usually you just have to get it closer to being right, auto tracking will take over and finish the job.
The problem you are seeing is a "tracking" problem. Most (even cheap) VCRs adjust tracking automatically, although they don't seem to adjust over their full range. Most VCRs have a couple of buttons on remote for manual tracking adjustment. Look for them, fiddle with it and see if it helps. Usually you just have to get it closer to being right, auto tracking will take over and finish the job.
10-21-02 | 08:25 AM
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Yeah, this sounds like tracking. Although, usually, previously recorded tapes are the victims, whereas something newly recorded should be fine.
Sounds like a coupla youse are recording in EP (slowest) mode? If you’re archiving, this is a wasted effort.
I trust you’re joking? I’ve got a prerecorded tape that I’ve played maybe a coupla hundred times. It’s still in (almost) perfect shape, judged by the DVD I made of it.
I think your main problem is that you’re recording at EP. Just stop doing that, and things should be fine.
Sounds like a coupla youse are recording in EP (slowest) mode? If you’re archiving, this is a wasted effort.
Originally posted by ten41
You use a tape over and over again?
You use a tape over and over again?
I think your main problem is that you’re recording at EP. Just stop doing that, and things should be fine.
10-21-02 | 12:32 PM
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In EP mode, the tape is moving at 1/3 the speed of the “normal” SP mode. The information is crammed in tighter, and there is much less allowance for tape stretch, which is perhaps the biggest problem. If yours is not a 4-head machine, this problem can be more pronounced.
Video tape doesn’t really stretch a whole lot in normal use, but even a little can throw the tracking off in EP mode, whereas you can get away with it at the faster SP mode. If you’re recording over and over, the new recording will ignore any previous tape stretch. But, if you’re just playing the tape over and over, and stretch occurs, you’re going to have problems, sometimes to the point where the tape becomes useless.
The video heads may also change with age/use. I wouldn’t know one way or another.
Info from this site may help:
So, it may be not so much that your VCRs are dying, but more likely that recording at EP is dooming you to failure in the long run. Before you blame the VCR, try recording at SP and I bet your problems will go bye-bye.
Hope this helps. Does your head hurt yet?
Video tape doesn’t really stretch a whole lot in normal use, but even a little can throw the tracking off in EP mode, whereas you can get away with it at the faster SP mode. If you’re recording over and over, the new recording will ignore any previous tape stretch. But, if you’re just playing the tape over and over, and stretch occurs, you’re going to have problems, sometimes to the point where the tape becomes useless.
The video heads may also change with age/use. I wouldn’t know one way or another.
Info from this site may help:
Industrial and consumer VCRs and four-headed VCRs when they use their slow or fast speeds, use different width video heads yielding different picture qualities. Try this analogy: When a VCR makes its recording, it's like paving a multi-lane highway. Industrial VCRs with "fat" heads working at the fast tape speed will pave wide roads. Such tapes play back nicely on both industrial and home VCRs. An industrial VCR with fat playback heads is like a wide car on the wide road. If it wanders off the road a little ways, it is still mostly on the road, picking up a good signal. Home VCRs with skinny heads are like narrow cars going down the wide road. It is easy for them to stay within the recorded area. When professionals duplicate tapes, they use industrial VCRs with fat heads. The resulting tapes play well in most VCRs, even slightly misadjusted ones. This also explains to some degree why the copies professionals make, look better than the tape copies you can make.
Consumer two-headed VCRs record narrow roads, leaving less room for error. It is easy for a car to wander off the road (tracking error). Furthermore, the narrow road contains less information (causes a grainier picture). At the two hour mode (SP) your home VCR leaves some space between the tracks, like a grassy median strip between roads. Thus when a tape head wanders off the road on an SP recording, it's playing some of the quiet, unrecorded area on the tape (the grassy median strip with no interfering traffic). This doesn't look too bad.
If you record at the slow speed (EP), you lose the median strip and the lanes are so close together that they overlap a little. Now there is very little room for error. In fact, you are making a little error when you are driving carefully in the middle of your lane. EP recordings (which are always made with skinny heads) are always troublesome. When you share an EP recording with a friend, their tape machine "drives" a little different the one that originally paved the road, and a lot of lane wandering occurs (graininess and tracking problems).
Consumer two-headed VCRs record narrow roads, leaving less room for error. It is easy for a car to wander off the road (tracking error). Furthermore, the narrow road contains less information (causes a grainier picture). At the two hour mode (SP) your home VCR leaves some space between the tracks, like a grassy median strip between roads. Thus when a tape head wanders off the road on an SP recording, it's playing some of the quiet, unrecorded area on the tape (the grassy median strip with no interfering traffic). This doesn't look too bad.
If you record at the slow speed (EP), you lose the median strip and the lanes are so close together that they overlap a little. Now there is very little room for error. In fact, you are making a little error when you are driving carefully in the middle of your lane. EP recordings (which are always made with skinny heads) are always troublesome. When you share an EP recording with a friend, their tape machine "drives" a little different the one that originally paved the road, and a lot of lane wandering occurs (graininess and tracking problems).
Hope this helps. Does your head hurt yet?
10-21-02 | 12:52 PM
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Thanks for the info. 
My first VCR died. I could hear it die and then it ate a tape.
I am guessing from your info that my VCR heads have aged somewhat. Nothing else really makes sense since I tried brand new tapes and old tapes and they both had the same problem.
I first noticed the shaking a few weeks ago, but I only remembered it happening two or three times over the course of a week. Then I thought the problem had went away but it came back over the last few days to the point now where the problem occurs every few minutes. Other than the split second when the picture shakes the image is fine.
I tried SP mode like you suggested and the taping was perfect. This should buy me a few more months at least with this vcr. They I will buy a sony like das monkey and zeus suggested. In a year or two DVDR might be more affordable and I can switch to one of those. Now I have to go out and buy a bunch of tapes and a cleaner.
Any recommendations on tapes? I thought I bought buying a bunch of ten hour tapes since changing to sp mode has divided the length of all my tapes by a factor of 3.
My first VCR died. I could hear it die and then it ate a tape.
I am guessing from your info that my VCR heads have aged somewhat. Nothing else really makes sense since I tried brand new tapes and old tapes and they both had the same problem.
I first noticed the shaking a few weeks ago, but I only remembered it happening two or three times over the course of a week. Then I thought the problem had went away but it came back over the last few days to the point now where the problem occurs every few minutes. Other than the split second when the picture shakes the image is fine.
I tried SP mode like you suggested and the taping was perfect. This should buy me a few more months at least with this vcr. They I will buy a sony like das monkey and zeus suggested. In a year or two DVDR might be more affordable and I can switch to one of those. Now I have to go out and buy a bunch of tapes and a cleaner.
Any recommendations on tapes? I thought I bought buying a bunch of ten hour tapes since changing to sp mode has divided the length of all my tapes by a factor of 3.
10-21-02 | 01:19 PM
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I think you are right on about the tape heads. I would be willing to bet it’s more of a problem with the heads getting dirty, ‘cause I can’t see metal heads running against a plastic film causing “wear,” but, again, I wouldn’t know.
I’ve never seen any results with cleaning tapes. But that’s just me.
Ten-hour tapes?? Ain’t no such animal.
Name brand tapes should be cheap enough these days. I have no brand recommendation.
Just remember that, if a tape gives you trouble, it’s time to donate it to your trash can.
The last vcr that died on me went psycho. Tape popped out, got sucked back in. Repeat until the plug was pulled. (It was fun watching it. Hehe!) It’s now landfill. BTW, it was a Sony.
The Samsung I have, which I run almost daily (both machines c.1995), is still going, but is on its last legs.
I’ve never seen any results with cleaning tapes. But that’s just me.
Ten-hour tapes??
Ain’t no such animal.Name brand tapes should be cheap enough these days. I have no brand recommendation.
Just remember that, if a tape gives you trouble, it’s time to donate it to your trash can.
The last vcr that died on me went psycho. Tape popped out, got sucked back in. Repeat until the plug was pulled. (It was fun watching it. Hehe!) It’s now landfill. BTW, it was a Sony.
The Samsung I have, which I run almost daily (both machines c.1995), is still going, but is on its last legs.
10-21-02 | 01:26 PM
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Originally posted by Wizdar
Ten-hour tapes?? Ain’t no such animal.
Ten-hour tapes??
Ain’t no such animal.Maxell T-200 High Grade Video Tape
http://www.radioshack.ca/estore/Prod...log=RadioShack
10-21-02 | 01:52 PM
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I stand corrected.Considering your problems, I’d stay away from that. Or T-160, for that matter. In order to pack that much in, they have to make the tape thinner, which can lead to tape stretch.
Also, I would not pay 6 bucks (Can or US) for a blank tape. Shop around and you should be able to find 2 to 4 tapes for the same. Youse guys got Sam’s or Costco up there? (Even Radio Shack has a 5-pack of T-120s for $9 US.)
It’s good to see that they’re finally making tapes compatible with satellite systems.
Radio Shack
10-21-02 | 02:38 PM
#20
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I'm not sure I'd take the same approach as Wizdar... You say you're using your VCR for regular time-shifting, and you're using it a lot...
Wiz is completely correct, of course, that higher VCR speeds and shorter-length tapes help to get rid of the tape stretching problem -- which sounds like your major "tracking" issue. HOWEVER, there's a real tradeoff with convenience and usability.
How quickly do you watch the tapes? How quickly do you re-use the tapes? How much tape swapping and end-of-show/end-of-tape protection do you need? Do you use new tapes constantly? One for each day of the week?
If you're stuck with only 1 VCR deck and a 2 hour tape, that means you can never record more than 2 hours unattended, which is pretty lame for time-shifting... (Not acceptable, even for a single evening, for those of us spoiled by TiVo, at least...)
I use a VCR as the backup unit for my stand-alone TiVo... (For when there's two shows on at the same time I want to time-shift...) I use a mid-to-high priced dual-deck VCR, with an 8 hour tape in eack deck. I record on the worst quality speed, reusing the same 2 tapes for months at a time, and have acceptable (for me) quality with no tracking issues after several years.
If you need to record at high-quality speed to cure your tracking problems for now, so be it. But unless you've got a killer entertainment system and are concerned about time-shifting with the best possible quality, you should gear yourself toward conveniece. Get a better VCR next time, possibly a dual deck, and do what you can to minimize tape-scretch and tracking problems at the lesser speeds with long-length cassettes.
Wiz is completely correct, of course, that higher VCR speeds and shorter-length tapes help to get rid of the tape stretching problem -- which sounds like your major "tracking" issue. HOWEVER, there's a real tradeoff with convenience and usability.
How quickly do you watch the tapes? How quickly do you re-use the tapes? How much tape swapping and end-of-show/end-of-tape protection do you need? Do you use new tapes constantly? One for each day of the week?
If you're stuck with only 1 VCR deck and a 2 hour tape, that means you can never record more than 2 hours unattended, which is pretty lame for time-shifting... (Not acceptable, even for a single evening, for those of us spoiled by TiVo, at least...)
I use a VCR as the backup unit for my stand-alone TiVo... (For when there's two shows on at the same time I want to time-shift...) I use a mid-to-high priced dual-deck VCR, with an 8 hour tape in eack deck. I record on the worst quality speed, reusing the same 2 tapes for months at a time, and have acceptable (for me) quality with no tracking issues after several years.
If you need to record at high-quality speed to cure your tracking problems for now, so be it. But unless you've got a killer entertainment system and are concerned about time-shifting with the best possible quality, you should gear yourself toward conveniece. Get a better VCR next time, possibly a dual deck, and do what you can to minimize tape-scretch and tracking problems at the lesser speeds with long-length cassettes.
Last edited by adamblast; 10-21-02 at 02:40 PM.
10-21-02 | 07:18 PM
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I just bought 2 new panasonic vcr's for about 69$ a piece because my old ones were giving me trouble, the sales clerk told me about some new technology which should be comin soon, i forgot what it is but its kindalike tivo but i forgot, but im sure i will hear about it again and get that, he said sometime next year
10-21-02 | 07:27 PM
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Why not get a stand-alone tivo? You could just set it to dial into the # in the states whenever it needed to (long dist. charges will probably apply but it's only a couple of minutes).
10-21-02 | 07:31 PM
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Originally posted by Mantecore
I just bought 2 new panasonic vcr's for about 69$ a piece because my old ones were giving me trouble, the sales clerk told me about some new technology which should be comin soon, i forgot what it is but its kindalike tivo but i forgot, but im sure i will hear about it again and get that, he said sometime next year
I just bought 2 new panasonic vcr's for about 69$ a piece because my old ones were giving me trouble, the sales clerk told me about some new technology which should be comin soon, i forgot what it is but its kindalike tivo but i forgot, but im sure i will hear about it again and get that, he said sometime next year
Microsoft is going to have a new version of XP with PVR built into it. I think it's only for certain new computers. Maybe this is what he was talking about.
http://www.microsoft.com/canada/pres...002_xmedia.asp
10-21-02 | 08:27 PM
#24
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ive got some tape where the one side of the back is off but the tape still playes fine. i cant make copies of it because i dont have one of those go video players and i erased the original version (ive got like 5 hours worth of camcorder stuff on it) should i toss the tape for fear of breaking one of my many vcrs or keep it. and also i had a 2 head samsung vcr which lasted like 10 years and we got rid of it to get a dvdvcr combo play.
question, is it ok to use the same tape over and over to tape stuff in sp or is it just bad in ep mode.
question, is it ok to use the same tape over and over to tape stuff in sp or is it just bad in ep mode.
10-22-02 | 08:19 AM
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OK. Listen up.
There’s nothing wrong with using a tape over and over (and, for that matter, over) again. I do it all the time. Yes, I do use EP speed, occasionally, when the situation calls for it.
However, at the first sign that a tape is giving me trouble, I toss it.
Perhaps you’re too broke, too cheap, or too anal to throw away a buck fifty, but consider the cost of a new vcr after you clog up the heads.
And, if you’re archiving at EP, you’re going to be disappointed. That’s my experience, which dates back to before Betamax. Take it or leave it.
There’s nothing wrong with using a tape over and over (and, for that matter, over) again. I do it all the time. Yes, I do use EP speed, occasionally, when the situation calls for it.
However, at the first sign that a tape is giving me trouble, I toss it.
Perhaps you’re too broke, too cheap, or too anal to throw away a buck fifty, but consider the cost of a new vcr after you clog up the heads.
And, if you’re archiving at EP, you’re going to be disappointed. That’s my experience, which dates back to before Betamax. Take it or leave it.