But it seems as if the questions they asked were about the people recently voted off instead of asking about the first couple of people voted off also. And they all got really high scored when compared to last several survivors.

Very true. Just answering your question of if they asked more than one questions about someone other than Sean. I assume they intentionally asked questions about jurors, because they were sitting there in judgment of them and may fuel the fire if they couldn't remember something about a juror.

das

Having Paschal participate in the drawing of rocks was a raw deal and I don't think Jeff explained it that well to them - they looked kind of suprised to know that Paschal was part of it.

I too was surprised about V but I was not really surprised that she beat Neleh in the final.

Tammy was definitely a sore loser and her tirade makes me glad that she did not come close to winning. At least John, the person I hated the most by far, asked his question and left it at that.

Finally, thanks to Rosie I never used the mute button so much in my life than I did in the 10 pm hour. When she started singing that song with her loud mouth voice...-rolleyes-

Good to see Jugs again. She looked pretty good - hopefully we'll see the goods in Playboy in a month or two. Neleh really cleaned up well too - I was surprised.

While it kind of sucked that Paschal got screwed and kicked off by the luck of the draw, he could have avoided it. Assuming they understood how the rock draw worked (which although it was a brief explanation on the show, I'd imagine they explained things a bit more 'off camera'), he could have saved himself by siding with V/K to unanimously vote N off when given the chance in the discussions before the rock draw. He chose to put himself at risk by keeping true to his alliance with N and not voting against her. So while it was kind of unfair, he did have the means to avoid it.

Of course Paschal getting screwed was pretty much a moot point anyway. I don't think he could have stood on that wood post for more than 5 minutes and the V/K winner would have probably brought the V/K loser with them to the finals.

In the same way, I thought the "deal" was moot as well. Logically, Neleh would want Kathy out of there for the final vote, so there was no need for a deal to be made. Knowing this, there was no danger to V and every danger to Neleh (because of the previous "deal"), so in a test of wills, odds are strong Neleh would have won anyway. I guess it was a nice feeling of security to KNOW Neleh wouldn't vote you off, but it seems like it may have been smarter to just subtly fall off instead of openly making a deal. In the end Neleh was disliked by enough people that it didn't matter, but I think V could have held Kathy's vote by not being so open with it.

das

Let's examine the scenarios if Paschal moves into the final 3:

If K got the boot, you have P/V/N and in that case, N probably would have won immunity, and she'd take P to the final 2. That changes the game totally.

If N got the boot, you have P/V/K and in that case, V probably would have won immunity, and she'd take K to the final 2. It would have also changed the game.

Definitely. It was pretty obvious that neither V nor N would want K in a final-2. I said after Thursday episode that the only way V or N wins is if they are both in the final 2.

In that situation, I would expect Neleh to throw the challenge. Otherwise, she's in a no-win scenario. She can't take Paschal to the finals, because she'd lose. And she can't vote him off, because it betrays everything she's said up to this point. V, also wouldn't want Paschal in the final, but could get away with voting him off, leaving V and Neleh in the final.

das

I don't think N would have stabbed P in the back like that.

To do otherwise would have made no sense within the context of the game. She may have done exactly what you suggest, but had she done so, she would have no business playing <I>Survivor</I>.

In reality, however, I don't consider her the evil monster Tammy believes her to be. Deep down she's probably as genuinely nice as she portrayed to everyone else. But being really nice and really gullible are two different things. And she wouldn't be betraying Paschal. She promised never to vote him off the island, and she wouldn't. V would.

das

How could they ask questions about the first people voted off, when you would have no idea about them, if they were not in your tribe?

P.S. Agreed that it's probably a moot point about P, but still think everyone/he seemed surprised that he was included in the rock selection. And it was not clear that the person being voted off did not have to be part of the decision, or at least that was how I heard it. If that was true, it would not make sense, so it must not be true. But if people thought it was true, then I would agree with P's statement that they would never have a consensus.

True, but as I said before, it was a tie between Kathy and Neleh. Paschal should not have been included in the decision of who got the boot. Once the votes were cast, none against him, then he should have been exluded just as much as the person with immunity.

I think the fact that they threw this in at such a crucual point is what makes it suck so much. Those last few rounds were too important to have things decided by a random draw. It makes as much sense as it would to have them get to New York and have Jeff say "Hey all 16 contestants, pick a number and we'll see who is the ultimate Survivor!!!"

I always liked the prior-votes-against tiebreaker. I thought that it was an excellent strategic device. I know they like to change things up but they should have left that one alone.

I still have a hard time accepting that N and/or P weren't playing the game until day 24. That's just stretching incredulity a bit too far.

On a side note, did Vecepia ever have a vote cast against her all game? I can't remember anyone ever doing it.

Note: I split off the discussion about the post-finale reunion show to its own thread. Please discuss the reunion show there... thanks!

Your analogy is flawed. The equivalent would be if he said, "everyone, we need a decision on who should be voted from the tribe. If you cannot come up with one, you will be forced to pick a number between one and sixteen." Only through stubborness are they forced into random selection.

das

I feel my analogy is fine. You prove it by showing how wrong it would be to have 16 people who were no longer involved in the process be forced to do something that would create a winner in such a ridiculous way. Whether they are forced to make a decision or not, the end result would be a lame way to pick a winner. That's my point; it was a bad way to decide a tie. Pascal shouldn't be labeled "stubborn". He shouldn't have been part of the process. And definitely not at that crucual part of the game.

Your opinion of the negative impact of the situation is independent of your analagy. Whether you agree with how it was handled, picking a number from 1 to 16 under the parameters you described is not the same thing as what happened on the show.

das

Boy, that stunk. Once V made the offer to Neelah, I lost all interest. Felt it was too obvious who was going to win in a final vote- and I was right. Turned it off after the final tirades by the jurors.

I was all for V until her religious justification for backstabbing (I can just ask for forgivenss- insert cheshire cat smile). I hate that kind of hypocrasy, on one hand saying its Gods will for your victory, yet using gray morals, being a complete Judas, and saying its okay. Sorry, thats just not the way it is supposed to work. You cant just do anything you know your religion tells you is wrong and then use forgiveness as a way to wipe the slate clean... "I knew it was wrong to stab my wife and try to get her insurance money, but I figured it was okay because God will forgive me."

Kathy should have won, she mainpulated (and was upfront about it), used physical skill, as well as coasted and lucked her way to the finals. Truly thats the best, most well rounded reason to deserve the win. Too bad.

True. That is why I said "it makes as much sense...." My point again, and others feel the same way, is that it was a lame way to do something so important at that point in the game. It's just my opinion. OK???

http://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivo...ode13/tc.shtml

In case there was any lingering confusion regarding the final ballots.

John, Robert, Sean & Tammy voted for Vecepia

Kathy, Paschal & Zoe voted for Neleh.

Hey, all Pappy needed to do to save himself was agree to side with Vecepia. She had no reason to change her vote since she was immune.

He was the only one not immune who could cast a vote, so if he didn't want to risk it he could have just changed his vote to break the tie.

I think it's a pretty cool rule to force a deadlock. Change your mind, or risk getting ejected yourself.

It becomes a catch-22 for the person who break a mini-alliance because you may go on in the game, but you definitely lose the other person's vote later. No, I still think it should be a contest between the dead-locked survivors. The tribe has already decreed that these are the lesser 2 that need to be given the boot. How is it fair for the rest to be subjected to expulsion once the tribe has already voted? That's BS.