Snake Plissken

1 episode left? Sonofa...... NOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!

Please let next season be as good as this season!!!


*Spoilers* for next week season finale!

clemente

Damn this episode was good.
It had me swerving back and forth

A virtual stand still in terms of forward plot momentum, but still managed to entertain and keep me more than intrigued. Nice action piece again.

Groo's little bit with Lorn was a really nice moment amongst the chaos of the episode.

Cordy's hair...ugh.
Cordy's powers...I think its time to place some limits.or some definition on these puppies before she flies around the world real fast and turns time back to save Lois' life.

writteninstars

Absolutely loved tonight's episode. From Connor shaking the goods loose out of the vending machine to him seeing Holtz dead with two puncture wounds, it was great. One minor, nitpicky thing...I thought in the Jossverse that vampire bites weren't so uniform w/ the two perfect punctures, but that because the vampires' fangs are so jagged, it's more like they rip into the flesh. I have been known to be wrong though (if rarely)

Really, really loved the whole scene at the bar...Lilah testing Wesley's compulsion to be "good", Justine waiting for the vamps to close in (although, she was highly ill-prepared it seemed), and of course, seeing Angel and Connor fighting together like they'd been partners for years. It was just perfect.

Also, loved (note to self: look for thesaurus and find new word for "love") Angel's conversation w/ Holtz in the motel room.

Okay, darn it...I have one more nitpicky thing...have they vagued Cordy's powers up enough for us? She can glow, cleanse souls, have visions, and apparently change her entire personality. Where has the Cordy who worried about fashion and had no problem being the bitch to get her point across go? I miss that Cordy. This one is okay, but I was hoping the writers would continue writing her as kinda the uber-bitch w/ a heart of gold.

Anyway, those are my two cents...for what they're worth

Mark Holtz

Watching the episode in progress..... Cordy may now be part Vorlon. Hmmmmm.....

Snake Plissken

I really like the teenage Connor and Groo! They are both good characters and I hope we continue to see them next season!

kilcher

Ok, I'm a bit lost on this one, maybe obvious to everyone else, maybe not. Was it Holtz's idea to have the two puncture wounds or did she do that on her own? It seems like he was sincere when he was talking to Angel and kind of makes it seem dumb for him to have left a letter saying that he was leaving.

Snake Plissken

It was Holtz's idea. He was forcing Justine to do it to him. I think he did it on purpose so Connor would think they were a vampire bite. Meaning Angel....

kilcher

I knew Holtz wanted her to kill him but I thought maybe he just wanted her to slit his throat and that it was her idea to do the two puncture wounds.

So if Holtz wanted Connor to think that Angel killed him why would he have written such a long letter saying goodbye? That's what doesn't make any sense to me.

das Monkey

This episode was pretty predictable and served to push the plot along, but I enjoyed the execution of it. The scene between Groo and Lorne was wonderful.

das

Draven

Holtz said "again" after the first wound Justine made, which means he wanted it to look like two marks.

I think (and it's just my opinion) that Holtz wrote this letter making himself look like this wonderful human being, giving up his "son" and giving him back to Angel...and now it looks like Angel went ahead and killed him anyway. He kept up the saintly act until the end. If Angel had killed Holtz because Holtz attacked him, Connor might understand that. But to kill him AFTER he gave up his son, that's so much worse.

Just my opinion...

Good ep though. I too would like to know exactly what Cordy's powers are, but I have a feeling they will address exactly what she is soon.

Patman

Wasn't too crazy about last night's episode, but it appears that Stephen will blame Holtz's death on Angel given the info he has at hand, and that'll lead to the predictable fight to the death, with Stephen using gile to put Angel in a most precarious predicament for the season finale.

Cordy's new power is again total deus ex machina story writing. She's practically invincible now.

So where does this all lead to with Wesley. Will he join Wolfram & Hart? Hope not.

grunter

A good episode? All of that over-wrought prophecy mumbo-jumbo and throat-slitting betrayal left us here - "The Wacky Misadventures of Peter Pan and His Two Dads?" (On "TWMOPPAHTD" this week, join us as our favorite feral child again sprints through night-time traffic on rain-slicked streets. *yawn*)

Let me get this straight. Holtz's entire explanation for his about-face in feelings towards Connor was that "something changed. The hate turned to love?" I ask you: would anyone buy that line - from your sworn enemy, no less? The man who hunted Angel to the ends of the earth, beyond the lifespan of a normal human being and literally to hell and back has suddenly lost his taste for revenge? Oh puh-lease.

Angel goes all wishy-washy inside for Holtz's saintly "Father Knows Best" song-and-dance routine at the no-tell motel, but tries to smother his team-mate and friend Wesley a couple weeks before? If I were Wesley I'd sign on to Wolfram & Hart in two shakes of a hell dimension beastie's tail - in blood, if necessary. Ah Wes, Wes, Wes . . . if you only knew of the power of the dark side. Give in to your anger, Wes. It is your . . . destiny.

Does Cordie's newly chosen demoness status now mean she's completely lost all fashion sense? Did she apply that blue Tammy-Faye eye-shadow with a trowel? Someone needs to pink-slip the make-up team that concocts these fashion faux-pas for Cordie. Didn't she used to be the proverbial "hot chick bitch from hell" back in her "Buffy" days? When was she unceremoniously reduced to "tons-o-fun" Cordie with her frumpy sweaters and hand-me-down Mary Kay facial products?

What was the point of bringing back Groo? He contributes nothing but an extra axe-hand in a fight and is apparently only a Pylea-sized sex-toy for the new age demoness formerly known as Cordie. If his re-introduction and the ham-fisted growth of little lost boy Peter Pan, er, I mean Connor/Stephen were meant to replace Lorne, then I shall be very, very put out.

The addition of Lorne as a semi-regular this season was one of the show's few-and-far-between inspired bits. Too bad he quickly morphed into the reptilian equivalent of Corporal Klinger, parading around in his silk smoking jacket, changing diapers and cracking wise.

Next week's return of goofy Angel does not bode well. Oy-yi-yi. With any luck, by next season Peter Pan will become a recurring minor villain and not a permanent associate of Angel Investigations.

MrN

Grunter, I don't think Holtz ever hated Connor - he was just a tool to be used against Angel. Unless I missed some crucial dialogue in that scene.

Anyway, I liked the episode - lots of things happening. Lot of mystery with regard to Cordy, her powers and Gru. She is starting to look older than usual. And they manged to tie in even Wes and Lyla (I liker her) into the main story.

I can't believe next week is the finale.

Patman

Lila gives me the hot as well.

crankyman

soooo......does that mean you liked it?


cranky.

Doug Heffernan

I have to agree! My comment was that Cordie looked liked she took make-up lessons from "MiMi" form the Drew Carrey show!

I was hoping that when Groo went "for a walk," he really went for a long one and never came back!!!!

There is just no chemestry between him and Cordy - In the episode in the "Theater" there was so much hope that Angel and Cordy were getting together - then all of this Groo B.S.!

Slumbering Fist

”Where has the Cordy who worried about fashion and had no problem being the bitch to get her point across go? I miss that Cordy.”
The better question is: Where have you been all season? Cordy went the route of Job and took the burden of helping Angel in his plight. Thats pretty much been her character arc this entire season, ditching her superficial side. Yeah, she was much more amusing before, but her princess (no pun intended) routine was growing old after 5 seasons of it (thats countiung Buffy, of course)

”Holtz's entire explanation for his about-face in feelings towards Connor was that "something changed. The hate turned to love?"
No, his hate was for Angel (not Connor) and that is what drove him, but he said he survived because his hate was replaced by love for Connor, to quote him, “Hate is not enough. Love is far more powerful”. What has me confused is that Holtz said this to Justine first, not Angel, which had me believing Holtz had swayed toward good- forsaken hate for love. But, then he says to Justine, “There is just one more thing I want you to help me with. Then I can be done with vengeance.” So there is still a bit of ambiguousness. Done with vengeance because of killing himself? or because he wants his death to be staged so Connor will turn against Angel?... What doesn’t make sense is that if he wanted to commit suicide, why didn’t he do it himself? Thus, needing Justine to stage it. On the opposite end, if he wants it to look like Angel has killed him, why wouldn’t he figure he could stoke Angels wrath enough so that Angel actually does it, this not needing to stage it?

Anyway, Angel was renewed for a fourth season. It will move to Sundays at 9.

clemente

Stephen/Connor wouldn't know what vampire bites look like, until Angel showed him he had no idea what vamp faces looked like, so the boy can be easily fooled.

Patman

Cordy would have fit in so well on 90210.

CaptainMarvel

Input needed:

Did Holtz give Angel the note to give to Connor, hoping that Connor would believe it was from Holtz (and blame Angel for killing Holtz)

- or -

Did Holtz give Angel the note so that Connor would think Angel had forged the note after killing Holtz?

clemente

I'm thinking this one.
Connor reaction would be that despite Holtz's selfless act Angel still killed him and thus be pissed enough at Angel to kill him/harm him, or at the very least, never be able to accept Angel as a father/friend.

writteninstars

I've been in front of my tv the same as you I completely disagree that her character had grown old, but then again I didn't want her to stay the same either. I wanted her to evolve in a more true-to-character manner. This Cordelia is *too* compassionate and nurturing. This has never been her way. True, she has taken on a more empowering role as Angel's part demon seer, but couldn't the writers have done that and kept her able to call a spade a spade? JMO

kilcher

I missed the "again" thing. Now it makes more sense. As far as the letter goes, a friend of mine said he thinks the letter was adressed to "Connor" and not "Stephen". Since Angel is the only one that calls him that it would lead Connor to believe that Angel actually wrote the letter. Not sure about that, maybe someone here remembers or can go back and check.

Draven, I think you're right on, that all makes perfect sense. [rereading that it sounds like sarcasm but it's not]

And just a bit of a rant... If they make Wesley bad I will seriously consider not watching this show anymore. That would piss me off to no end. I hate it when they make characters do something totally out of, well, character. It's poor writing in my opinion. Anyway, I thought his scenes in the hospital and the one where Gunn came for help were simply amazing. He didn't have much dialog but the look on his face said so much. I've just now been catching up on Buffy on FX and it's hard to believe how his character has evolved!

Slumbering Fist

Actually I could buy Wesley going to the bad side. You have to consider that Wolfram and Hart probably get a good 30% of their workforce based on people that are at their lowest point, hit rock bottom, or just plain desperate, therefore making them more open to 'the dark side'. Remeber Linseys sad sack story? Its safe to say, Wesley is probably at his lowest... I could see him going over to their side, and then using his insider status as a way to hurt them.

RaraFemina

I can see Wesley going to Wolfram and Hart, but in the end, when it matters, he is gonna side with Angel. He can use all his "insider information" to help Angel finally defeat them.